SEN 1174 - 16 Jan 2008

Table of Contents - SEN 1174

  1. M&K Mechanical Timers for Sale
  2. Vintage FAI Power update
  3. FAI POwer - wish you were there

M&K Mechanical Timers for Sale


Hi could you please put the following items for sale in SEN.

For Sale M&K timers

I have for sale 3 M&K mechanical 3 function 8 min timers for sale
plus knurled winding tool

2 of them are used the other is un-use

All come complete with glass fibre
enclosure.  They all run very well no problems at all.

Previous owner now gone digital causes sale.

The good news is that I will be in US for the Ike and Bob White next
month and you can pick them up from me there.

Price cash only $100 for the 3 lot, will split if necessary


Julian Pennington
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Vintage FAI Power Update

Walt Ghio      This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

We have made one small revision for the new Vintage FAI Power event. Early information had been found that showed the end of 1974 was the cut off for the 10 second engine run. We have just found out the entire year of 1975 along with the 1975 World Championships used the 10 second engine run. No other changes were made to the rules.

From my last posting of information on the SCAT web site we have decided to name the event with a proper adjective; “Vintage”. We felt that the Vintage FAI Power event did not fit the NFFS Nostalgia and AMA Classic gas events. A lot of the models that will be flown in the event can be used in the present F1C event because of the wing loading rules and engine requirements. Yes, they are underpowered compared to present day models, but they are not nostalgia or classic models.

A few questions have come up about re-entry. A competitor will be allowed to enter more than one model or the same model providing it is from a different era. An example would be entering a model in the Era 6, which uses a ten second engine run. You could use the same model and enter Era 7, which uses a seven second engine run also. The only requirement is to complete the flights in the required one hour round.

A web site has been set up for Vintage FAI Power : 

This web site is dedicated to the past, present and future of FAI Power. The present site has material promoting the emerging Vintage FAI Power event. With time we will add more information about the different era’s of FAI Power. We consider this site to be your site. We encourage each of you to send information that can be posted on the site. Joe Mekina and myself have been the main contributors at this time.  Joe is web master for the site. We would like to find photographs for all the World Championships and drawings for the winning models. My guess is that somebody has them in a shoebox someplace. We just need somebody to find the shoebox and send the pictures / drawings to us.

1951 to 1979 Vintage FAI Power Event

Rules listed below are for 2008 Big Al’s and 2008 Livotto contest

January 13, 2008
FAI Power Rule History

1951 – 1955   Maximum engine displacement 2.5 cc. Fuselage X Section= total area / 80. Minimum weight, 200  grams per cubic centimeter. Maximum 20 second motor run, any fuel. Minimum surface leading, 12g/sq dm. Rise off ground.

1956 – 1957 Minimum weight, 400 grams per cubic centimeter. This rule did not go over well with the flyers and to my knowledge was never used. For this time period we will use the 1951 to 1955 rules with no cross section rule.

1958 – 1960 Current weight requirements instituted. Minimum weight 300 g/cc of engine displacement. Minimum surface loading 20 g/sq dm. Maximum 15 second motor run, any fuel.

1961 – 1965 10 second motor run, any fuel

1966 – 1970 10 second motor run, tuned pipes allowed, 80/20 alcohol fuel only

1971 – 1975 10 second motor run, tuned pipes banned, 80/20 alcohol fuel only

1976 – 1979 7 second motor run, 80/20 alcohol fuel only

Rules for 1951 to 1979 FAI Power Event

The idea for this set of rules is to let the flyer participate in the contest with his favorite model from a given year with a motor from the same time period. The flyer would then use the set of rules that governed that time period and fly against other flyers who have picked a model from a different year with a different set of rules. Over the years, the FAI rules have been adjusted to keep the model performance set to the three minute max. A Frisco Kid from 1954 using a Torp 15 with 20 seconds of motor run should be equal to a 1975 Summerwind / Rossi 15 combination with a 7 second motor run. Only time will tell if this is true. Please do not put a Rossi in a Frisco Kid. You will not be allowed to fly.

Motors: December 7th Revision

1951 - 1960 Engines, K&B, OS Max, Cox, MVVS, Moki, Webra, Pre 1960 Super Tiger, 1960 Super Tiger G20 (with 1960 printed in the side of the engine case, as used by the Italian Team at the 1960 W/C's), Diesels of that time period, etc.

1961 - 1969 Engines, OS Max, Super Tiger, TD's, K&B 64 Series, MVVS,Moki, Webra, etc

1970 -1979 Engines, Rossi, Super Tiger, Cox Conquest,Cossi's, MVVS, Moki, Webra, etc

All pre 1960 Super Tigers, and the 1960 Super Tiger G20 (with 1960 printed in the side of the engine case) will be allowed a 15 second motor run, all post 1960 Super Tiger G20's and the later G15 will be required to use a 10 second motor run. The Rossi will be allowed to use both the 10 second and 7 second motor run depending on the model selected. Tuned pipes will be allowed on a Super Tiger, or any other engine that used a tuned pipe for the 1966 to 1970 time period.

No Nelson’s or VE’s along with any other engines produced after 1979 will be allowed.


We are fortunate that so many designs are available to pick from for this event. Zaic’s books, Aero Modeller, Free Flight News, the National Free Flight Society Digest / plan service along with AMA’s plan service have many plans for models of this time period. If your selection is an original design please supply plans / photo’s of the original model. I will not have a list of models for the 1951 to 1979 period. If you select a model that is not in one of the above sources please supply a published three view or original plans.

Motor mounting does not have to follow the original design. George French used a cast aluminum motor mount on his Night Train. If you decide to build a Night Train and have one like it please use it. If you cannot find one on E-Bay or one from a fellow flyer, replace the mount with an aluminum plate.

Any glow plug may be used. Any propeller may be used. Any timer may be used. Flood off and prop brake will be allowed for all models along with any style of fuel tank.

Wings and stabs must be covered if original design had open structure; not replaced with sheeting. Sheeting must be used on the wing and stabilizer if the original design used it. No restrictions on covering material: Mica film / modern film may be used in place of tissue, silk, etc.

No aluminum / carbon D-box construction will be allowed on the wing or stab. Carbon spars and carbon-capped ribs will be allowed. No carbon only TE’s will be allowed. Balsa / carbon TE’s are allowed.

Modern fuselage construction will be allowed for any model that you select that used a rolled tail boom on the original model. If the model you selected used a box style construction for the fuselage then you need to copy this construction.

No bunting is allowed.
All models will be hand launched.

This will be a five round contest with no reduction in motor run for flyoffs. Flight times will be increased for the flyoffs.

Revision / Additions below: December 7, 2007

Some three views do not have much detail regarding construction of the model. An example is in the 1955-56 Zaic year book. On page 73 is a model with the airfoils shown and no dimensions for the wing panels or rib positions. Building this model will require the builder to scale from given dimensions on the plans along with the shown airfoils. If your choice is a model with this minimum information please insure that you bring documentation to the contest showing how you obtained the final dimensions.

Adding spars or false ribs is no problem with some of the early designs that have very minimum construction. Do not revise a straight rib design with a Union Jack style of construction.

Two piece wings will be allowed for any design. To help with airline travel you will be allowed to make a two piece wing for any design you select.

Landing gear / prop savers are the choice of the builder. No ROG or VTO will be used for safety requirements.

OS Max 1’s, OS Max II's and OS Max III's will be allowed for all models. The availability of 1’s and 11’s is very limited. Also, the power difference is very minimal between the three motors.

With the difficulty of finding diesel engines from the early 50’s replica diesels will be allowed.

Proxy flying will be allowed. The builder of the model can make arrangements for a flyer of the model / models or I will make arrangements with agreement from the builder. Please contact me before sending a model.

A competitor will be allowed to enter more than one model providing it is from a different rule set. An example would be a model from the 1954 time frame and another model from the 1970 time frame. The only requirement is paying a double entry and completing the flights in the one hour time period for each round.

A flight line will not be used. The competitors will fly from a 50 meter square box. You will be allowed to fly from any position in the box. Your choice.

Revision: January 13, 2008

The date for the 1971 to 1974 rules was revised to 1971 to 1975 along with the 1975 to 1979 being revised to 1976 to 1979. Early information had been found that showed the end of 1974 was the cut off for the 10 second engine run. We have just found out the entire year of 1975 along with the 1975 World Championships used the 10 second engine run.

Walt Ghio

1380 Elkhorn Dr.

Stockton, CA 95209
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FAI Power - wish you were there

Walt and fellow F1C Vintage people - A few years back when I went to the first World Cup events held in Omarama , NZ both Verbitsky and Stamov were there. Evgeny had his first geared engine do you can tell what year.  So was John Shepherd , one the 1960 F1C joint winners with one of the Glowworms that he flew in that event with the orginal Eta 15D.  John flew it in the F1C event eben though he did not make the fly off did better than most people expected.  You might be able to get photos from some NZ FF historian like Chris Murphy of them together for your web site.

Roger Morrell