SEN 785- March 10 2003
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SCAT Electronic News 10 March 2003 issue 785
Table of Contents
=================
MM results revisited - Slobat
F3A engines from Italy - Erguner
NFFS Web Moderators wanted - Peterson
Pacifier source - Ramrod250
San Valeer annual - Thorikdsen
Free Flight Solves World's Problems - Bauer
some perspective - Deloack
Perryman - Bryant
A1 - A2 Survey - Whoops - Sheffer
Wright Stuff - Baxter and Cope
Glider events - Moseley
CABIN LUGGAGE - Peter King
Rebuttal to George X - Woodhouse
Supermax revisited and a new concept for fly-offs. - Linkosalo
Frequent asked question - Beschany
SAM 35 - Baron
NFFS Symposium Archive CD Released - Indoor Tim
Pactra Dope
GeeBee
Thanks
MM results revisited
====================
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Roger, I have just returned home from vacation, and am thinking that I
might return, quickly. It seems that I made a few errors in my haste to
get the results to you before I left, and would like to make amends for
them. Peter Brock's score in F1A was 2130 sec, not the reported 213
sec, so he should be placed in the 43rd position instead of 47th.
Martin Schroedter's score in F1B was 1150 sec, not the reported 1260
sec, so he should be placed in the 47th spot, instead of 38th. Also, as
we all know, the country abreviation for Luxemberg is LUX, not LIT.
Sorry Rene! Thanks to the guys that sent me notes about the problems. I
will try to be more careful next time. gb
F3A engines from Italy
=======================
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Dear Modelers:
I don't know if it will be any use to anyone on this free flight group, but I r
ecently came up with the below site, the producers of F3A engines. The web site
is: http://www.mintor3m.it/
O. Erguner
NFFS Web Moderators wanted
==========================
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I am adding some online threaded discussions to the NFFS Web site and am
looking for moderators for two of them. If you are interested in moderating
a discussion on either Nostalgia Rubber, or Nostalgia Gas please contact me.
Or - if you would like to moderate a discussion on another topic send me
your proposal.
Thanks, Alan Petersen, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Pacifier source
===============
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Pacifier Fuel Tanks
I realize this may be a lost cause, but I am wondering if anyone has a source
for pacifiers suitable for F1J use. I have just about used all of mine, and I
understand they may no longer be produced in a size and form we can use (and
evidently the most recent ones were actually pipette bulbs instead of
pacifiers, and they too may be unavailable.
I know many fliers have gone with surgical tubing for tanks, but I am lazy
and don't want to go that route until I have to.
Jim Haught
San Valeer annual
=================
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Hi Roger,
For anyone that wants a copy of the contest flyer for
the San Valeers annual on April 12 & 13th at lost
hills they can email me and I will send them a copy.
Also if anyone has some merchandise that they would
like to donate it is always appreciated by our club
since we give out merchandise, wood, kits etc instead
of trophies at our annuals.
If they are FAI types they can pass it to Guy Mennano,
or if AMA gas flyers then myself or Lynn Pulley.
Thermals,
Terry Thorkildsen
Free Flight Solves World's Problems
===================================
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While wandering along the F1A flightline during the recent Maxmen
event at Lost Hills, a conversation with Martin Gregorie, Antoon Van
Eldik, and myself, resulted in a solution to the current world crisis.
We looked around at the beautiful sight of wide open space, green
grass, models floating overhead, and people from all over the world
enjoying the sport, and came to this conclusion: All we have to do is
get Saddam Hussein and George Bush to put on some shorts, run around
with a towline and glider, and all problems would vanish!
Ken Bauer
some perspective
================
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I was digging through my Geroge Perryman plans the other day and noticed
something that was pretty impressive. In a 1988 letter to the editor of the
Nebraska Free Flighters newsletter, George reflected on his flying in 1987.
He made 318 official flights in 24 events that year! Total flight time
(officials only) was 7 hours 20 minutes, 37 seconds!!
George closed by saying: "God has blessed me with good health and luck, so
with my friends' help I won 59 firsts. Since I'm 63 now, I'm not sure how
many more years I can keep up."
He kept it up for fifteen more years, competing as hard as ever right
through his 78th year.
We were all blessed to have George grace our hobby with his presence.
Thermals,
Don DeLoach
Perryman
========
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Those of us left over from the 1951 Wakefield held in Finland carry =
vivid memories of George, known to us as the "Professor".
His good nature and antics contributed to a successful and enjoyable =
contest.
George,a real character will be remembered for the man he was, long =
after his victories on the flying field have faded from memory
Adrian Bryant
A1 - A2 Survey - Whoops
=======================
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Roger
Please print the following:
The subject survey is retracted. It was ill advised and timed. It
was also out side my scope of authority as a member of the committee and
against the NFFS Board of Directors express statement that I wait until the
report was received from Bob Mattes. The Mathes report will be the basis for
future action by the committee and possible AUTHORIZED surveys. It was not
my intention to create any friction, embarrassment or consternation. This is
a sensitive issue and this public survey at this time was inappropriate.
I apologize.
Not much else to say, except, I resign from the committee.
Jackie Sheffer
Wright Stuff
============
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Hi
Here is a copy of my report on running the Wright Stuff events. I sent
copies to ED, Carol, and Alan; will send paper copy for use in SCAMPS n/l.
Thanks for your help
Lonnie
Scientific Olympiad - Lonnie Cope
When the Thermal Thumbers voted to disband, they willed their treasury
and some other things to the SCAMPS, probably because half the members also
belonged to SCAMPS.
One of the treasures is member Dick Baxter, who remains active in
flying small models, ornithopters, studying bird flight, and helping to
educate Orange County students about aviation. He has taught summer classes
in building model airplanes, from whence came the Starved Pussycat. He and
fellow members of the Future Scientists and Engineers of America have given
school lectures and flight demonstrations. He also has assisted the Orange
County schools in running model airplane flying as part of the nation-wide
Scientific Olympiad competition for middle and high school students.
This year he wasn't able to commit to the full set of S.O. activities,
and sought help from TTers at the Nov meeting. Consequently Gordon
Strickland and I gave a lecture on choosing and building a S.O. entry, and
each of us ran one of Orange Counties preliminary contests on Feb 26th, 2003.
I ran the preliminary contest at the Fullerton College site, assisted by
Bill Creany, Dick Terry and my granddaughter Lily. We expected 13 high
school teams and 8 middle school teams, and had 18 show up and attempted
flights. One registered team was not allowed to enter their inappropriate
model! It was a solid wood baby's toy that they proposed to catapult with a
loop of rubber band. I think it might have weighed a half pound. Lily
thinks that from the way they were ribbing one team member, he had bought it
that morning on the way to the competition.
Dr. Brown ,of Fullerton College, phoned me Thursday night with the news
that both the schools mens and womens basketball teams advanced in their
finals, so our S.O. time slot for using the gym was reduced to about 3 1/2
hours total, to include practice time. He proposed that we measure the
models for rules compliance after they flew, saving the entire measurement
time (used motors only instead of a teams full backup supply) by allowing an
orderly measurement of the flown models to be made concurrent within the next
teams flying time. We used this approach and it was a great time saver.
I introduced this at the pilots meeting, but not all teams were there or
paid attention, so repeated this for each team before they flew. It was also
announced, that the electronic scale and measuring ruler were available for
each team to check their own models before they flew, so it was the team
members responsibility to submit a legal model.
Never the less, the post flight screenings eliminated one team and
another teams second model. Two high school girls were using office supply
rubber bands that came in about 6 inch looops and many pastel colors. They
premeasured only one band, then broke it when winding. Replacement band was
unfortunately too heavy. Their model flew about 6 seconds ROG, which you
will see would have beat some other teams! The disqualified high school
team model might have won the contest IF (1) it wasn't 1/2 cm too great a
wingspan, and (2) it didn't hang up in a basketball hoop an 98 seconds. I
would guess that they did not let the glue dry long enough before removing
the tip support blocks and the somewhat "loose" dihedrals joint sagged.
Matching the propellor, and the motor for optimum performance of an
indoor model for a given ceiling is an intricate process. Motor variables are
length, width, and mass. I only glimpsed one rubber stripper there, and
noticed that most teams were flying 3/32 FAI strip. This will turn a 9 1/2
inch PP prop clipped to 20 cm too fast for a light model.Given a mass limit,
propellor modifications are absolutely necessary to achieve long flights.
Several teams had performed prop modifications, (legal in this contest) of
repitching and /or recambering. Some of the highest flight times were
recorded with propellers well under the maxximum size. At least two teams
used 6 inch props and 1/16 FAI rubber, allowing a much longer loop that held
many more turns.
High school teams flew ROG with 8 gram mimimum airframes with 2 gram max
motors. The Valencia H.S. team, coached for many weeks by SCAMP Gordon
Strickland, had high time of 157 seconds. One team wasn't able to ROG on
either try. The other H.S. flight times were 134.0, 118.2, 103.4, 100.0,
98.0 (DSQ- wing oversize), 77.0, 57.0,6.0 (DSQ - motor overweight) 4.3, and
1.0 (90 deg left turn toward bleachers just becoming airborne before
striking bleachers).
MIddle school teams flew hand launched 10 gram minimum airframes with 2
gram max motors. The winner was Ladera Vista Jr High School with 144.6
seconds. Other flight times were : 71.0, 55.6, 19.7, 5.0, and 2.2 seconds.
The last place model had its tail broken off during winding. They pressed
the broken pieces together and then launched.
We were treated to some very well trimmed flights. We saw some very well
built models, and some very advanced model designs. Some of the teams had
done their work and/or had really worked out with an indoor modeller.
Several of the models had CGs behind the trailing edge, making weighing
the model a challenge. There was no max chord specification for the stab or
max model lenght specification, so a clever designer or two had really big
stab areas on long fuselages, constructed with the lightest colored balsa I
have ever seen.
Each year I work at the event I learn something valuable. Last year it
was Dr. Grimes concept of the spectator line. Allow only the actual team
members on the floor, all others including friends, family and advisors had
to stay away from them and their models. We use a few traffic cones and some
yellow tape to delineate an area, and YELL at anyone who exceeds it.
This years short times gave us two nice contest administration
approaches; test after flying and a clear rule on test flying during contest.
Test flying requests were particularily annoying in prior years, as a few
entrants took advantage of every few minutes of inactivity on the contest
floor to ask for permission to test fly. We really got mad at those who flew
before asking!
Of course, test flying is a proven means of adjusting ones model, and a
few more test flights might improve a teams contest ranking. However it
isn't possible to fairly allow each team an unlimited amount of testing in an
hour or so. Dr. Browns limited time window at Fullerton allowed only an 1/2
hour open test period. I chose to allow each individual team to use whatever
portions of their individual flight window for their individual testing, with
the stipulation that they had to inform us of test flight/ offical flight
status before launching, and that they understood that they only had a 7
minute total window to start all such flights.
Several teams made a glide to check assembly before winding up for
official flight. SUCCESS, the concept worked. As usual someone figured out
how to foul themselves up: they choose to make a full power testflght using
up about half their window, then rewound the model BACKWARDS! By the time
they had unwound the model and partially rewound it for forwards flight they
had to launch for a much shorter flight time than their practice flight.
Meanwhile Gordon Strickland was concurrenty running a second S.O.
competition at Golden West College. He was aided by Dick Drake, Dick Baxter
and Shirley Baxter. Gordon's general impression was that the high times were
disappointing compared to what he had seen in prior contests. Their top time
was 2 minutes 17 seconds (137 seconds).
One of their fliers was a fifth year veteran who had done over 3 minutes
on prior occasions with the same model, and even in a practice at Lomita Gym.
Ceiling hang ups are possible if you can't keep your model in tight turns,
one got him at less than 2 minutes. Golden West had about 20 or so teams.
There was at least two "Guillows type" (i.e. all balsa slip together
purchased at drugstore on way to contest) and two "no guidance at all" teams.
It is really amazing how much better a team member can participate if
that person has spent an hour or two with an experienced modeller. Pastel
office rubber bands, Guillows all balsa models and AMA Delta Darts are not
suitable competition entries. One or two teams even hand wound! On the
bright side, when such a team member returns for a second year the learning
is very evident. They had learned by observation, and had acquired some
modest priced equipment and probably done some testing, so that one minute
flights are achieved.
I hope the event continues in future years, for event rules often change
year to year and some years new events replace older less popular ones.
The Southern California regionals will be held at Long Beach State
College, I believe on March 28 th. SCAMPS members are welcome to come down
and either watch, or else bring a stopwatch and help us time. Be careful to
avoid staff parking lots, ($25 fine without pass); phone Gordon, or I for
more details if you want to come. We could use at least two timers.
Glider events
==============
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Why the dedication to FAI rules of whatever age?
Open glider. Any size, any weight, any structures. No circle tow, bunt or
other niceties ... just a D/T function and auto rudder. Fixed hook (i.e.
fixed whilst towing, may be longitudunally adjustable on ground before
flight to suit conditions)...
The KISS system at its very simplest . To heck with sizes and
wingloadings, etc. let's have a REAL Open Towline class.....
CABIN LUGGAGE Peter King
=========================
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I have so far never travelled by air with my models much to my
dissapointment, but travel all the time with musicians with various
instruments. Although it is always a source of worry, 99 times out of 100
we manage to get things like trumpets, saxophones etc in to the cabin. That
is good advice that once you get them as far as the gate and the plane there
is usually no problem, due to the cabin staff being well aware of their
fragility and the numbers of musicians who travel every day. The thing is to
persuade the check in people to give you a label that gets you to the gate.
Then you can normally rely on the reasonableness of the cabin staff. If
there are problems I have, as have many others, refused to board the plane
without my saxophone and missed a concert. Such is the imortance we place on
our instruments. Some of the professionally made F1B cases etc look very
like musical instrument cases and I have even thought of making a model box
from say a tenor sax case. I guess you could always try to get away with
telling the gate people you have an instrument.
The gate people never seem to look inside the case themselves. The security
are usually only interested in the thing when it arrives at their check
point and as long as there is nothing dangerous in the case, will pass it, if
you get that far.
I experienced a real problem with Easy Jet recently. This only happens at
Luton Airport, not at any of the others. They have always been difficult
but have brought in a new crazy rule wich is supposed to help musicians.
They now have a list of 'permitted instrument', but the list is crazy. You
are allowed to take, for instance trumpets, violins, violas, Bass Clarinets
etc but NOT saxohones !!!! I had a serious and fruitless row with the
authorities. I mean, what kind of stupid rule allows trumpets and not a
small alto sax on board? !!!! The joke is, if I had known, I would have
told them it was a bass clarinet or a trumpet. Then they would have accepted
it without a word !!! The net result of their action is going to be
thousands of musicians flying around Europe will now refuse to fly Easy Jet
!!!
Peter King
Rebuttal to George X
=====================
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George
The champs are different animals. The use in other events is counter
productive and puts off travelling around the globe to fly.
Michael J Woodhouse, Norwich, UK.
Supermax revisited and a new concept for fly-offs.
==================================================
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Klaus and Jorgen have interesting points regarding the supermax, but I'd
like to add one more: in my opinion a flight over 3 minutes is more or
less a fly-off. These should be flown in a small time-window, all fliers
at the same time, in similar air. This definately does not take place if
the 5 min round is flown for 55 minutes, pick your own air!
As and if huge number of fliers in the fly-off is a problem, one could
consider the following. I heard the idea from Jari Valo (the Finn winning
the World Cup in 2002), I do not know the origins further. He presented
it in a discussion a few weeks ago.
The idea is to let go the idea of competing agains the clock, instead
compete against other people, possibly in groups, as RC glider people do.
For instance, if you have too many fliers in the fly-off to make a
comfortable one fly-off, split the group in two. Now let people fly, and
pick a number of best fliers from each group to continue. The number could
be e.g. the number of maxes in the better group. This means that in the
other group, that flew worse, you can still continue if you were good
enough (in the worse air), even if you did not make the max.
Further this idea could be refined so that for the final, decisive flights
you could pick a couple of best fliers even if they did not make the max,
to have a "final" of 2 to 4 people deciding the color of medals. Now,
instead of a fly-off of 25 deciding who won, you would make a real
spectator event for the finals, where everyone can easily see all the
flights deciding the outcome of the competition.
This kind of setup might take a bit longer, so maybe you should start the
the fly-offs earlier. Often the 7 rounds do not make much difference to
the outcome of the competition, with only a few dropping in normal
weather. Maybe the number of rounds could be dropped, as has been the case
in many Nordic World Cups (where day lenght limits the available time of
light to fly).
-Tapio-
Frequent asked question
=======================
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Dear Roger,
Please,edit this one and publish some day at SEN.
Quite large number of fliers, customers and friends of mine asks me what have
happened to my fly off round #16 at MaxMen .That's exactly about my nice 29 sec
flight.
They asked me to share the info.
Of course, those flight was as the result of my mistake with programming BM
timer.Now, I learned that I have to learn more about my own models.
As we know ,some of BM timers has THREE ON-OFF switches on them. For round 16th
I turned switch #3 ON because I programmed an external DT for 7 minutes.
Those data was 8th step for the program.
However, BM program had the DT set to step 10 not to step 8.
This step 10 had a d/t timer od 0 seconds ...
So, model nicely did DT right after I launched it in the round 16th!
Yes, I was upset for a while.The total score of MM-2003 could be different for
F1A.
However,as you can see it was not battery problem or servo or main switch OFF
problem (forgetting to put it ON!)
Thermals!
Vasily.
[Vasily
Thanks for writing the note and explaining what happened.
It just shows that no matter how sophisticated the tools we have
and often we practice - still sometimes the obstacle is ourselves !]
SAM 35
======
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I am a member of AMA;SAM;NFFS. Do you have any addresses for SAM 35, the
vintage flying organization in England? Keep 'em flying. Tom Baron
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NFFS Symposium Archive CD Released
==================================
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In association with the National Free Flight Society (NFFS) the much
rumored and long awaited NFFS Symposium Archive is now available for
purchase. The archive is contained on 4 CD and includes a custom written
viewer program that allows you to access articles by table of contents,
year, author, and article name. It also allows you to print any of the
pages to hard copy. This archive contains all the NFFS Symposiums from
the first through 2000 (32 volumes) as well as the World Championship &
plans books and the Winning Indoor Designs book. There is over 3500
pages of information in this archive.
The custom viewer program is only available in a version to run on
Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000, and XP. The actual page images can be
opened on any computer that can access a standard data CD and read .tif
files.
This archive is only available from F1D.biz due to registration
requirements for the viewer program. You can order online by visiting
the www.F1D.biz site and click on "Order Other Products". Then select
the "CLICK HERE FOR THE FULL ONLINE ORDERING CATALOG" link. You can also
order by mail to:
Tim Goldstein
13096 W Cross Dr
Littleton CO 80127
USA
Payment by Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, Cash, Check, Money Order accepted.
If paying by credit card include the card holder name, card number,
expiration date, and billing address. Checks and Money Orders must be in
US$ denominations and drawn on a USA bank. Make payments out to Tim
Goldstein. Credit cards will be processes under the business KT
Marketing.
Cost of the archive is $75 for non-members and $68 for NFFS Members. To
receive the NFFS discount on the web you must enter the code NFFS in the
coupon box at the time of order and actually be a current NFFS member.
Shipping is $6.95 for the USA and $9.95 for the rest of the world.
Proceeds from the archive will benefit the NFFS.
Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions at
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Tim
[Denver CO]
Tru-Weight Indoor Balsa & model supplies
www.F1D.biz
Indoor News and Views
www.IndoorDuration.com/INAV
Pactra Dope
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I've been out of the modeling business for 25+ years and formerly used
Pactra AeroGloss dope for all my models. Now I find no source for that
and am looking for suggestions for an alternative. Can you help?
Joe Mills email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
gee bee
=======
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Is the larger size gee bee available yet that I saw at the pasadena show
Gary
Thanks
======
Thanks to Mike McKeever and William Gannon for their domantions in
support of SEN
.................
Roger Morrell
