SEN 820- August 11 2003
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News and Reports 2003
SCAT ELectronic News 11 August 2003 issue 820
Table of Contents
=================
High Tails - Cole
T-tails Where's that wake ? - Crowe
Poitou F1B Results - Brocks
Re: Up with Pylons-the last word - H
French Toast - Van Wallene
Jnr Team Scoring - Parker
I made it to Muncie ! - Mate
Poitou 2003 - Chabot
www.picturejoe.com (Pictures from the NATS) - Mekina
High Tails
==========
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There have been so many comments about T tails on F1As that I cannot remain
silent any longer. On page 172 in Frank Zaic's 1959-61 yearbook you can see
the plans for my Nordic which placed the stab high above the wake in the
normal gliding position by putting the boom on at -10 degrees. This is
beneficial because the downwash at this position is only about half of what
it is below the wake. When upset by a gust, the model had a very
unusual reaction. Some might call this a stall but instead of dropping the
nose, it would wheel nose high and go in the opposite direction. I think
that this may have been partially due to the sub rudder dipping into the
wake and partially due to the effect of the product of inertia. See page
100 of Frank Zaic's 1953 year book. Another important feature was that
the model had a very short nose and extremely small moments of inertia. The
consequence of this was that the model was a thermaling fool. It set a record
of 5 maxs and a 6th flight of 16min 49 sec. which was never broken until they
they changed to 7 flights. On the last flight the model worked into three
different thermals before dethermalizing in plain sight. (a very long
fuse)
Jim Walters used this setup very successfully and I understand Hermann
Andresen had good luck with his "Desert Rat", and George Xenakis used
it on the "Tadpole." I think that some of the problems reported may have
been due to design features other than the T-tail. The only problem I
encountered was that they were difficult to trim because they always looked
like they were diving. Because of this there was a tendency to trim them too
close to the stall. Also, in the circle tow it was difficult to judge
when they were in good air.
Hank Cole
T-tails Where's that wake ?
============================
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T-tails: Where's that wake?
In recent issues of SEN the T-tailed model and its behavior have been
debated. The position of the wing wake has been referenced, and the
following discussion may be of some use here.
When a wing generates lift it does so by 'bending' the free stream
airflow downwards. In imparting this downward momentum to the air, the
wing experiences an equal and opposite reaction lift. Theoretical
aerodynamicists refer to a 'lifting line' that imparts
'circulation' to the lift line to produce lift. Same thing,
different way of looking at it. Behind the wing, the airflow is
deflected downward for some distance behind the plane before resuming
its original, undisturbed flow. The disturbance certainly continues
further back than the stabilizer. We call this angle the downwash, and
it affects the lift on the stabilizer quite significantly.
Where the flows over the upper and lower wing surfaces meet at the
trailing edge, at different speeds, there is some mixing that creates
turbulence. The upper flow is already turbulent from the point where
boundary layer separation occurs, about 50 to 60% chord. The flow in
this region is also slower than the free stream flow due to this
turbulence and skin friction on the wing. This zone we call the wing
wake, and it persists downstream for some distance, certainly further
than the stabilizer.
Where is this wake? Is it going to hit the stab?
The downwash angle depends on a number of factors, not least of which is
the airfoil shape, but to first order we can consider it equal to a
value half the wing angle of attack measured relative to the zero lift
line. Let's assume for the purposes of this discussion a wing set at
zero lift relative to the fuselage axis. On a typical FAI model (any
class) the distance between the wing trailing edge and the stab leading
edge is about 30 to 35 inches. For a typical FAI wing (again, any
class) in trimmed gliding flight, the wing might be flying at a lift
coefficient of around 0.8, corresponding to an angle of attack of about
6 to 8 degrees measured from zero lift. (Lift curves are often shown
referenced to the chord line, at about 4 degrees from zero lift. We
need to measure from zero lift for this discussion.)
For our wing set at zero lift in this example, in trimmed flight the
free stream flow is coming from 6 to 8 degrees below the fuselage, due
to the sink rate of the model coupled with whatever degree of nose-up
attitude the stabilizer has forced the model to adopt to attain trimmed
flight. The wing wake, therefore, leaves the wing trailing edge at an
angle of about 3 or 4 degrees upward relative to the fuselage
centerline. Let's assume that the wing wake is centered about this
line, and is about two to three times as thick as the maximum wing
thickness. At the stabilizer leading edge, the wake center is about 2
to 2.5 inches above the wing trailing edge (30 x tangent of 3 or 4
degrees.) Since the wing is about one inch above the fuselage
centerline on a typical model due to the pylon, it follows the wake is
at 3 to 3.5 inches above the fuselage at the stab.
At the stall, the wing will be at a lift coefficient of about 1.0 to
1.2, corresponding to an angle of attack, again relative to the zero
lift line, of at least 10 to 12 degrees for most of our airfoils. The
downwash angle is therefore around 5 to 6 degrees, and this puts the
wing wake center at about 4.5 to 5 inches above the fuselage centerline
at the stab.
A conventionally-mounted stab, say one half inch above the fuselage
centerline, is therefore well below the wing wake in trimmed flight, and
if the model is perturbed towards the stall, the wake moves higher away
from the stab. The stab is not impinged by the wake, and may even be in
cleaner air as it works to correct the trim of the airplane.
A T-tail mounted stab on top of a 4 to 5 inch high fin may be above the
wing wake in trimmed flight, but the wing wake certainly moves towards
the stab as the plane approaches the stall. With the numbers chosen for
this discussion, the wake could envelop the stab right at the stall.
Although the effects of the wake are difficult to predict with
certainty, wrapping the stab in slower, dirty air just as it is
struggling to regain trim condition is unlikely to be an optimum
situation. It is possible that this effect explains some of the
behaviors observed on T-tail models.
Readers may disagree with the numbers chosen here, and will certainly
wish to run their own calculations for their own airplanes. Results may
vary depending on your driving habits. Different lift coefficients and
airplane geometries may be considered more representative. Setting the
wing at non-zero lift will affect the absolute position of the wake at
the tail, but not the relative movement. In general, a T-tail model is
more susceptible to wake disturbance.
Bernie Crowe.
Poitou F1B Results
==================
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1.. Anselmo Zeri NED 240 5x180 300 275
2.. Hans Schoder SUI 240 5x180 300 158
3.. Robert Piserchio USA 239 5x180 300
Congratulations to Bob! He and Connie have been regulars in Poitou.
Peter
Re: Up with Pylons-the last word
================================
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Don't recall advocating extreme pylon height, especially in power. Do
advocate up to 1' narrow pylon on many classes to get wing above fuselage
boundary layer and out of propwash as a performance enhancer. After all
there is little point of building a high AR wing if circulation can occur in
the center because the root is blanketed by the fuselage or motor. The
effect is the same as leaving a gap in the center. In an extreme case it is
like cutting the AR in half. As a school kid I measured a small, like 5%
improvement with a short ~1/2" pylon on low ceiling HLG's. This in spite of
a clean, small dia nose.
As to T-Tails for other applications I feel that even if you avoid the deep
stall, there is still the adverse slant to the CG and the large torsional
stress in the fuselage. IMHO This is a large price to pay for a ittle stab
protection. I stick with this opinion despite it being in agreement with
the experience of Skykeing.
End of story,
H
French Toast
============
From: Allard van Wallene [mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Yo,
I'm just back from France. We were all toasted 'french' style. I never flew a c
omp. this hot. At 5 PM it was 41.5 in the shadow!!! Here a report:
When driving down to France, temperature was rising steadily, peaking at 41.5 j
ust south of Paris. Forecast showd no change, so I was in for some real sweat.
I kind of prepared myself by bringing 15 liters of dutch water (local tap water
is not that good) and a good supply of 'baby salt' (the stuff they use to prev
ent dehydration of small kids).
On arrival at the Moncontour camp site, I was a bit reluctant to get out of the
car. The temp. gauge still showed 39.5 degrees. Luckily the repaired airco in
the car held up well. I met some flyers who looked like they just had a shower,
but it was just sweat :-0
The organisers changed to a heat wave schedule: starting at 7.30 (4 min. super
max), flying 4 rounds, and continueing at 17.00 for the remaining 3 rounds, the
last of which was a 5 min. super max as well.
I helkped Anselmo retrieving on the friday, and this gave him a clear advantag
e over the competition, as several people suffered from heat exhaustion at the
end of the day. I used the new Axim GPS systenm all day. And the only times I u
sed the radio was in the 5 min. super max round and the fly off!!! It is dead a
ccurate, and I allwaus drove up straight to the model. Battery capacity was sti
ll at 50% by the end of the day!
Anselmo maxed his way through the day, despite a rather reluctant (slow timer?)
VIT in the 1st and fly off round. But he managed. It was incredibly hot, I spe
nt all day with a wet towel 'Lawrence of Arabia' like! Only 2 had a full score
. And the Swiss flyer was totally exhausted to the extend he could hardly wind
his motot, let alone launch the model. So it went up allmost crashing due to a
bad release of the model and did a low score. Anselmo won for the 8th time Poit
ou!!
Drinking liters of water with salt didn't prevent me form being totyally finish
ed after the 7th round. I retrieved the fly off by car in the coolness of the a
irco.
Only some time after sunset it started to cool down a bit, but temperature neve
r dropped below 22 degrees.
Next day (F1A) started similar, but there was far less wind and no turbulence w
hich plagues the F1B day, even in round 1. So I used HiBrite in the morning to
max comfortably. Round 2 was the usual tricky round (no real thermals but trick
y downers). I was afraid the black fuselage would heat up a lot in the sun, but
it stayed remarkably 'cool' considering the circumstances.
At 5 pm we continued, after having spent most of the break in the lake in order
to survive the hottest part of the day. At that time there was a steady 5 m/s
wind, so I used HiBrid to fly the rest of the 3 rounds. In the far distance som
e isolated thunderclouds were dropping a load of rain, but this was very local.
It didn't prevent the wind from going haywire. Swinging 180 degrees during the
last round after a huge thermal (Pieter went out of sight vertically even usin
g binoculars!) had past. I flew early in that round trying to find air for the
5 minutes. This prooved to be problematic for some flyers, as there were long p
eriods of thermal inactivity by then.
Some 9 flyers made it to the one and only fly off, including Ivo and me. The re
st of the dutch dropped out during the day. Wind dropped to allmost zero, and c
onditions were perfect for a real showdown. I towed towards the cars, others we
nt in all corners of the field. Rink used his well know big 'white and blue' si
x paneled bird, and he found beautifull air in a remote corner of the field to
fly 18 seconds more than me. Hi Brite did a nice 4 min 57 for a second place. T
he launch was rated 8 out of 10 as the cruise was not perfectly vertical. But i
t wouldn't have been enough to beat Rink's superb flight.
ciao, A.
Jnr Team Scoring
================
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Roger,
Please print the following in SEN:
For SEN and NFFS:
***********************************************
Jr Team Selection Scores.
Please note the scores are based on the Nats unofficial scores and so subject
to correction. These are interim scores and there will be likely changes in
the top three F1A and F1JP positions. Please contact me via email with any
corrections. It is easiest to understand the scoring system by viewing it in
the native Excel format as posted on the NFFs website.
Thermals, Jim Parker
I made it to Muncie !
===================
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I am prompted to respond to Benjamin Coussens lament. Oh that it be my
problem to make the FAI JUNIOR TEAM. After breaking my leg last season
causing me to put on 20 pounds for being sedentary, it was a privilege
and honor just to make Muncie. Especially since with my enlarged heart I
am winded after walking 2 blocks. I said WALKING. Thank god for my ATV.
I actually flew 50% of the airplanes I took with me. I actually flew
officially in some events. EXCITEMENT, 3 maxes with my great flying
GOLLYWOCK. Then a hole for my fourth flight, 1:37 instead of the 3 min I
needed. But it made the whole trip worth it. Arthritis flare up in my
flipping hand hindered my gas model flying. I hate it but will be using
starters next year.
Boomers, Ed Mate
Poitou 2003
===========
Sylvain CHABOT
WAKEFIELD F1B
1 ZERI Anselmo NED 1440 275
2 SCHODER Hans SUI 1440 135
3 PISERCHIO Robert USA 239 180 180 180 180 180 300+ 179 1439
4 VAN HOORN Henk NED 218 180 180 180 180 180 300+ 158 1418
5 BLACKAM Richard AUS 240 180 180 180 180 180 205 + 85 1345
6 EVATT Michaël GBR 182 180 180 180 180 180 220 + 42 1302
7 RUYTER Pim NED 240 180 180 180 180 180 156 1236
8 TEDESCHI Serge FRA 240 180 180 180 180 180 153 1233
9 FLYNN Joseph GBR 180 136 180 180 180 180 180 1216
10 JALLET Stéphen FRA 240 165 180 180 129 180 180 1194
11 FAASSEN Michiel NED 223 180 111 180 180 180 180 1191
12 BARBERIS Didier FRA 240 122 162 180 180 180 202 1184
13 GREIMEL Véréna AUT 160 180 180 180 180 180 115 1175
14 WOODHOUSE Michaël GBR 240 180 180 180 180 86 180 1166
15 MARQUOIS Léa FRA 240 180 180 180 180 83 180 1163
16 RAPIN François FRA 177 180 180 76 180 180 180 1153
17 MATHERAT Georges FRA 240 167 111 180 180 180 151 1149
18 BILLAM Daniel GBR 227 113 180 134 180 180 180 1147
19 TRUMPF Rudolf SUI 215 180 180 169 180 116 123 1128
20 SEREN Thomas GER 201 180 180 180 94 102 300 1096
21 BUISSON Guy FRA 175 180 177 117 132 129 157 1067
22 MARQUOIS Benjamin FRA 176 180 180 180 110 180 0 1006
23 ASLETT Bernard GBR 240 180 180 180 180 99 0 999
24 VAN EEDE Ton NED 134 180 180 151 174 94 0 921
25 GUSTAVO Jorge POR 150 165 125 128 180 124 0 872
26 CHALLIS Edward GBR 240 147 180 180 180 0 0 867
27 CHAPMAN ChristophGBR 191 157 180 180 93 67 0 857
28 BILLAM John GBR 240 180 116 180 79 0 0 735
29 BEAUMONT Newham GBR 147 142 35 180 0 0 0 504
30 NEW Ronald GBR 132 180 58 6 0 0 0 376
WAKEFIELD F1B JUNIOR
1 JALLET Stéphen FRA 240 165 180 180 129 180 180 1194
2 MARQUOIS Léa FRA 240 180 180 180 180 83 180 1163
3 BILLAM Daniel GBR 227 113 180 134 180 180 180 1147
4 SEREN Thomas GER 201 180 180 180 94 102 300 1096
5 MARQUOIS Benjamin FRA 176 180 180 180 110 180 0 1006
WAKEFIELD F1B FEMMES
1 GREIMEL Véréna AUT 160 180 180 180 180 180 115 1175
2 MARQUOIS Léa FRA 240 180 180 180 180 83 180 1163
MOTOMODELE F1C
1 GRETTER Claus GER 240 180 180 180 180 180 232+ 112 1372
2 ROUX Alain FRA 240 180 180 180 180 180 224+ 104 1364
3 SUMMERSBY Roy AUS 240 180 180 175 180 156 223 1231
4 REVERAULT Michel FRA 240 167 180 148 109 180 208 1144
5 HARRIS Peter GBR 240 167 180 180 180 180 53 1120
6 BOUTILLIERBernard FRA 240 153 126 180 98 180 199 1097
7 SCREEN Stafford GBR 116 180 86 180 180 111 201 1033
8 HÜBLER Hubert GER 240 167 180 180 0 0 0 707
9 JACK Alan GBR 221 127 180 0 0 0 0 490
10 SEELIG Hans GER 126 91 180 93 0 0 0 487
11 ARINGER Gerhard AUT 213 160 0 0 0 0 0 340
PLANEUR F1A
1 RINK Andreas GER 1440 315
2 VAN WALLENE Allard NED 1440 297
3 BACHMANN ChristophSUI 1440 290
4 MITCHELL Phil AUS 1440 273
5 BARTLE Douglas GBR 1440 226
6 COLLEDGE William GBR 1440 221
7 SCHELLHASEJörg GER 1440 217
8 SEREN Paul GER 1440 215
9 KREETZ Ivo NED 1440 213
10 TRACHEZ Bernard FRA 239 180 180 180 180 180 300+ 179 1439
11 FUSS Helmut AUT 240 180 180 180 180 180 270+ 150 1410
12 BESNARD Anne FRA 207 180 180 180 180 180 300+ 147 1407
13 CROGUENNECVincent FRA 184 180 180 180 180 180 300+ 124 1384
14 AANEN Peter NED 240 180 180 180 180 180 215 + 95 1355
15 VAN DE VENKees NED 224 180 180 180 180 180 193 +57 1317
16 MOREAU FrançoisFRA 240 172 180 180 180 180 185 1252
17 RAPIN François FRA 170 180 180 180 180 180 226 1250
18 HACKEN Arno NED 240 166 180 180 180 180 180 1246
19 BERNARD Edgar FRA 213 180 180 142 180 180 180 1222
20 CHAMPION Robert FRA 187 180 180 180 180 180 138 1218
21 POUZET Bertrand FRA 231 180 180 180 180 180 137 1217
22 ABERLENC Frédéric FRA 240 180 126 180 180 180 180 1206
23 LARBAIGT Laurent FRA 218 180 180 120 180 180 180 1200
24 PENNINGTON Julian GBR 115 180 180 180 180 180 236 1195
25 CHAUSSEBO Pierre FRA 240 180 116 177 180 180 300 1193
26 BACHMANN GottfriedSUI 240 180 180 180 108 180 178 1186
27 BERNARD Boris FRA 203 180 180 122 180 180 159 1181
27 VARHOS Deniz SUD 240 180 180 180 180 180 101 1181
29 STOFFELS Horst GER 174 180 116 180 158 180 180 1168
30 KREETZ Ron NED 219 180 173 166 180 107 180 1166
31 ECHIVARD Didier FRA 237 180 177 180 180 180 88 1165
32 GODINHO Jean FRA 210 150 180 128 148 180 180 1146
32 GREGORIE Martin GBR 178 90 180 180 180 180 158 1146
34 VAN IERSE Adriaan NED 161 137 180 180 171 180 135 1144
35 OXAGER Tom DEN 191 180 180 180 180 63 191 1143
36 WILKENING Fritz GER 83 180 180 180 180 159 277 1142
37 VAN DIJK Maarten NED 240 180 180 180 167 180 73 1140
38 BELLEN Win NED 239 180 180 143 132 180 136 1131
39 DE BOER Pieter NED 59 167 180 180 180 180 300 1126
40 JACK Alan GBR 221 180 134 180 86 180 184 1120
41 KABITI Marine FRA 206 180 180 122 95 180 208 1117
42 MORICEAU Bertrand FRA 176 132 117 180 180 147 261 1112
43 MARILIER Thierry FRA 224 180 180 90 180 180 121 1111
44 CHABOT Sylvain FRA 206 180 180 120 180 180 86 1106
45 THEVENON Laurent FRA 240 104 180 180 180 180 94 1098
46 OLDFIELD David JohGBR 206 157 180 180 180 180 32 1089
47 BERNARD Gilles FRA 207 180 128 175 180 65 180 1088
48 CHALLINE Jean PierFRA 236 180 180 24 180 180 161 1085
49 FLEURY Stéphane FRA 235 180 180 0 178 180 180 1078
50 DUJARDIN Frédéric FRA 177 172 180 180 180 180 0 1069
51 ARINGER Gerhard AUT 240 180 18 114 180 180 184 1032
52 SEREN David GER 170 180 180 180 38 180 96 1024
53 VAN KUIJK Jon NED 222 158 165 14 180 146 242 1023
54 LECOMTE Aurélien FRA 149 159 180 180 3 180 170 1021
55 OXAGER Mille DEN 198 180 168 104 180 180 8 1000
56 JACK Richard GBR 215 0 98 180 180 180 198 998
57 TRIBE Peter GBR 211 180 155 180 166 127 0 988
58 SEREN Johannes GER 146 180 147 127 83 180 107 970
59 BOCHET Bernard FRA 77 180 180 180 110 180 0 907
60 LANGLOIS Marc FRA 161 39 62 180 124 180 157 903
61 DILLY Martin GBR 181 180 180 180 180 0 0 900
62 THOMAS Félicien FRA 151 101 144 180 131 38 110 855
63 CESBRON Samuel FRA 187 118 85 180 22 180 83 848
64 MARTINEAU Alban FRA 45 180 125 180 35 131 151 847
65 PUJADE Marcel FRA 138 165 39 51 180 180 93 846
66 SEREN Daniela GER 140 120 180 106 58 151 75 830
67 COOPER John GBR 186 180 180 180 97 0 0 817
68 PICOT Jean FRA 47 46 180 73 180 122 141 789
69 TEDESCHI Serge FRA 175 106 180 102 82 43 89 777
70 BOCHET Loïc FRA 0 105 73 140 180 54 180 732
71 CAILLAUD Michel FRA 213 44 180 128 180 0 0 712
72 PINEAU Florian FRA 139 85 139 120 98 37 78 696
73 PEPER Hans GER 149 180 180 40 105 0 0 654
74 GAUDIN Jacques FRA 191 162 180 60 60 0 0 642
75 TURNBULL Glyn GBR 148 104 180 180 0 0 0 612
76 THERAULAZ Maurice FRA 0 163 180 42 74 89 54 602
77 MARQUOIS Benjamin FRA 173 118 0 0 0 0 0 291
78 COOK Mike GBR 84 120 0 0 0 0 0 204
PLANEUR F1A Juniors
1 BERNARD Edgar FRA 213 180 180 142 180 180 180 1222
2 BERNARD Boris FRA 203 180 180 122 180 180 159 1181
3 KABITI Marine FRA 206 180 180 122 95 180 208 1117
4 SEREN David GER 170 180 180 180 38 180 96 1024
5 LECOMTE Aurélien FRA 149 159 180 180 3 180 170 1021
6 OXAGER Mille DEN 198 180 168 104 180 180 8 1000
7 JACK Richard GBR 215 0 98 180 180 180 198 998
8 SEREN Johannes GER 146 180 147 127 83 180 107 970
9 THOMAS Félicien FRA 151 101 144 180 131 38 110 855
10 CESBRON Samuel FRA 187 118 85 180 22 180 83 848
11 BOCHET Loïc FRA 0 105 73 140 180 54 180 732
12 PINEAU Florian FRA 139 85 139 120 98 37 78 696
13 MARQUOIS Benjamin FRA 173 118 0 0 0 0 0 291
PLANEUR F1A Dames
1 BESNARD Anne FRA 207 180 180 180 180 180 300+ 147 1407
2 KABITI Marine FRA 206 180 180 122 95 180 208 1117
3 OXAGER Mille DEN 198 180 168 104 180 180 8 1000
4 SEREN Daniela GER 140 120 180 106 58 151 75 830
www.picturejoe.com (Pictures from the NATS) - Mekina
=======================================================
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Roger,
Could you please post this on the SCAT/EN?
thanks, Joe Mekina
www.picturejoe.com (Pictures from the NATS) - Mekina
I have just placed over 500 pictures from this year's Nationals out on my new
website:
http://www.picturejoe.com
Here are a few notes from one of the pages at the website:
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ese are
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ia
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e
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There is no charge to browse, and it's fun and hopefully entertaining, and
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Thanks, Joe Mekina
..............
Roger Morrell
