SEN- January 6 2000

News and Reports 2000 - First half
SCAT Electronic News 6 January 2000

      "SCAT - 40 Years of FAI Free Flight Competition"

Table of Contents

Isaacson Winter Classic - Furutani
Scat News - Livotto
Why it is so ? - King
Hobby Poxy H08 - Roberts

Isaacson Winter Classic
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If you're in the Lost Hills area around Feb. 12-13, stop by the Isaacson
Winter Classic. If anything, for a free Weiler burger on Sat. night! Don't
forget the MaxMen International the following week!

-Norm Furutani, Roger Morrell and Randy Weiler

Isaacson Winter Classic

Saturday, February 12
8:00am - 4:00pm

Open Events:
Open Glider
Any AMA or FAI towline glider. No minimum weight. No maximum wing area.
Fifty meter towline. Four minute max.
Open Rubber
Any AMA or FAI outdoor class rubber powered model. Five minute max.
Open Power
Any AMA or FAI power. Ten second engine run. Five minute max.
All Open Events:
Three flights, any time between 8:00 am and 4:00 pm. (Check rules and maxes

Open event: "Champagne Fly-Off's"
Open Glider 4:45pm-4:55pm, unlimited max
Open Rubber 5:00pm-5:10pm, unlimited max
Open Power 5:15pm-5:25pm, unlimited max
Note: The timer may follow the model for "Champagne Fly-Off" flights.

Special Events: All day Saturday
Five, 3 min. flights.

P- 30
AMA rules.

Catapult glider
AMA rules

Sunday events
F1A, F1B & F1C
Sunday, February 13
Round 1 - 7:30am!
Round Schedule:
1 7:30am-8:30am
2 8:30am-9:30am
3 9:30am-10:30am
4 10:30am-11:30am
5 11:30am-12:30pm
6 12:30pm-1:30pm
7 1:30pm-2:30pm
Round One Maxes:
F1A 210 seconds
F1B 240 seconds
F1C 240 seconds
Fly-Off Schedule:
Round eight, 5 minute max.
F1A 3:00pm-3:10pm
F1B 3:15pm-3:25pm
F1C 3:30pm-3:40pm
Additional rounds 7 min. max, 9 min. max, etc...
Unlimited time maxes after 5pm

SCAT news
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Roger, I think Richard need a new computer, 11/11/44???. Last 2 news you
sent out are dated 2 Jan. 2000 and 4 Jan. 2000 according to my computer,
so I think is Richard's hardware.

[yes or the software .. the date that is sent in the mail header looks like
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 00 03:59:30
and the ones we sent last year looked like
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 99 03:59:30
the format that you see is actually this date reformatted by your
mail program or mail server ]

Why it is so ?
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Dear Roger,

[with Roger's editorial comments too !]

Of course, I agree there are many other great flyers and I picked Alex and
Bob out as they both seem to epitomize what we all have to strive towards,
They both stand out as shining beacons but there are many others, now and
throughout the history of our noble art.

Re your comment...

<< I think it's somewhat paradoxical [but understandable !] that
many other modeller's have had more sucess with Alex's complex models
rather than Bob's supposedly simple ones. ] >>

That is a tough one !!! Maybe there are several reasons for this. A
couple that come to mind are...

1. I presume that when one buys a model from AA, Vivchar or Gorban, et al,
they have already been trimmed to some extent.

2. I would guess they are built with the same trim set up regarding warps,
thrust offset etc that their designers have found to work well. (??)

[A couple of comments I have bought models from Vivchar and watched
Andriukov selling and trimming... both these guys models are built
to such a high consistant standard they the set them up on the bench
so they will fly right away. You can put the model on full
power on the first motor, after a couple of low or medium power tests.
But it still takes a lot of work to get the ultimate performance]

3. All else being equal the gadgets should make some aspects of trimming
easier. Especially the climb, transition etc.

[ I think this is the real reason - they are easier to trim]

4. The high tec models are, withouit doubt more efficient machines. It is
just that I believe the differences are less than many people believe.

[ I think it is eay to get intimitded by the other's high-tech model
but most times it a contest for finding thermals - look how well
Klaus Salzer does. I like the gadgets - that's one reason why I
build and fly with electronic timers]

5. Could it be that many of the succesfull users of 'bought models' are
simply excellent modellers that simply do not have the time to build the new
type of high tec. models to the high standards required. As I understand
it, people like Gerry Fitch and many others bought models to study them and
to learn the new flying techniques, so they could go on to design and build
their own creations, starting from a sound basis.

[ Jerry is the prime example of someone who bought a very good model,
then improved upon it to beat the original flyer. However Jerry
is a very good flyer and his model needs a person of his caliber
to get it to go right. It's not as forgiving as Alex's]

6. This may be sticking my neck out here but maybe there are different
psychological attitudes at work between some of those that stick to
traditional models and some that spend a lot of money on buying into the new

Maybe the later may have a slight edge in commitment, (after all, an
investment of ca $1500 in a model would suggest a pretty high level of
commitment, or you are going to waste a load of money!!). Some who stick
to older models may have a temptation to say, "The reason I didn't win is
because I don't have a bought
model". It can be a little too easy to think this way and although many
will agree with this attitude, it obviously doesn't stop guys like Bob White
and others from winning comps with 'simple' models, because of their supreme
skill and total commitment.

[My contention is that Bob's models are not simple - his wings
are very thin and difficult to build and keep straight. To trim the
models is hard too. The only reason why Bob does not have moving
surfaces is because he thinks it is better not too. Bob
looks at it as a total system, not just the model but the
preparation, trimming and flying. He just uses what he
thinks works best.

I also think that many of us place a high value on our time. That's
why we buy models or bits of models.]

May I suggest a small side issue to the whole subject, which may
illuminate one possible area of difference between simple and complex models
If you have a non gadget model with no VIT, AR, IPR or DPR. There can be
a tendency to be rather conservative about launching the model, (Speed and
Angle). When you have to use a modern DPR model you simply have to throw it
hard and vertical or you are in trouble. I have noticed that, even if I
just use instant release, I do not throw the model as hard as when there
is a delayed start !!

[ this is any area where I think Bob White is a little two faced -
he is very critical of the delayed start and says it turns it
into an atheletic event or something - but in fact eventhough he does not
use a delayed start Bob does give his model a hefty heave - something
that I was to scared to do when I flew PGI but I think it is
essential to get the right wing wash-in working to stop the dreaded swoop]

Please don't think I intend any Anti Luddite attitude in any of my
remarks. I am simply trying to think of some answers to the very
interesting, penetrating paradox that you put, Roger. It is a fascinating
point and I always feel so lucky to be able to talk accross the World to so
many wonderful kindred spirits, through the medium of the Internet and your
wonderful SCAT Page.

Yours sincerely,

Peter King

Hobby Poxy H08
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. :

Reply to Vern
I got a bunch of Hobbypoxy HO8 from Tower Hobbies just last month. Haven't tried it yet, but down to my last drops of K&B.


Roger Morrell