SEN 1688

Table of Contents - SEN 1688

  1. HDA - golf or haggis
  2. Kudos on 2
  3. Q stuff
  4. Q uestion
  5. What indeed
  6. Aeromodeller almost here

HDA  High Drag Airfoil
This will be the new wing textured like a European golf ball - ie a multi sparred lignin wing which excels in lift and costs peanuts to make.
Nick Bosdet

....actually I was wondering if the H was for Haggis ?

Kudos on Bulletin #2

The FAI Team Selection Finals Bulletin on the NFFS site is superbly designed, totally expository, bulletproof, perhaps--even a work of art compared to the stumblings of the past:  kudos to the author(s).
John Oldenkamp

Q Stuff:

 Neither F1Q technology nor its rules are settled at the moment.  The changes made by CIAM for the 2012-2014 cycle are murky, CD unfriendly, and, so far, not enforced.  Many would be Sportsmen abandoned the event as a result.
A new proposal I would like to submit is this:

1.   Maximum battery weight, as manufactured, unmodified,  120 grams.
2.   Maximum motor run, 15 seconds.
3.   Maximum airplane weight, 550 grams.
4.   Maximum wing area, 500 square inches or the closest metric equivalent.
5.   Energy Limiters permitted.
6.   180 second maximums, five or seven rounds, as now.
7.   Fly-off first round, 10 seconds, succeeding rounds, five seconds until contestant drops the 180 maximum.
The rationale for the above are both obvious and quite defensible, but probably belong in a separate debate  later on.
I know many who would support this approach.  Where do I get the application?
John Oldenkamp

Electric Free Flight Pioneer, Promoter, not running for Office


I notice in John's suggestion and it was also in the German proposal last CIAM session about "un-modified" batteries. I think that is was introduced because under the original rules some crafty sportsman removed some of the battery covering to get a battery under the limit and a better power to weight.

Taking the question right to John's front door -  John is a crafty sportsman and would not be allowed to do this,  but his flying buddy Mike owns Starlink-Flite Tech a commercial enterprise that sells modelling stuff. So while John could not modify it ? Mike could ?  Mike's business is clearly not a huge enterprise but even someone like Horizon Hobby , Hobby King or even Thunder Power probably do not manufacture the batteries but just package them for resale to our market. They all come out with new brands on a regular basis.  Certainly there are sporting endevours that use standard products but just an observation, not a critisim but Hobby King's catalog changes daily so knowing what's on the list or not and what brand was kosher ot not would be next to impossible.

Is it a big deal ? s it a safety problem ?

What if …Indeed Sir ???
Well done Allard, in bringing this dilemma to the attention of those oblivious to fine print.
This highly optimistic interpretation of the rules as written (as was pointed out at the time a year ago during the New Rules debate) requires the Day 1 winner to be not only decided, but to be 100% irrevocably certified and declared a US Team Member, BEFORE the beginning of the commencement of the first round of the Day 2 event.
As a past Team Selection CD myself (and observer / participant at such events for the past 4 decades !) I would say, even with the best intentions, the chances of that happening are slim: Especially as the new rules will require this process to be applied to all three categories on two consecutive days, for at least the first place models, if not the top three placing entrants models, as is traditional (I make that 36 models in total, including towlines, motors and engines, multiplied by the 2 days !).  I doubt realistically that there will be sufficient personnel available to accomplish this task in a timely manner, before the commencement of Day 2 !
1)  Take for example the case where Day 1 goes to a next morning fly-off and the weather is too bad to make the 10 minute max (not an unknown occurrence at Lost Hills, even before the present neighborhood orchard situation) — But is perfectly acceptable for the start of day 2 rounds competition !  ie no Day 1 winner yet decided and certified !
2)  Or take the converse, where the weather is so good that more than one flyer makes the 10 minute morning fly-off (which has also happened on occasion at Lost Hills), necessitating another 12 minute fly-off the following evening or morning, AFTER the Day 2 event has been flown, in as many as 3 separate events (A, B, and C), with multiple flyers still contesting first place !  ie no Day 1 winner yet decided and certified !
3)  Or consider the case where there is indeed an outright winner following the Day 1 rounds or the next morning early morning 10 minute round — BUT the winning model(s) (a minimum of 12, or 36, models over the 3 classes) have not yet been processed and therefore the “Day 1 winner” cannot be certain that his model will not be found out-of-specification and thereby his results disqualified (As happened recently at the European Championships, and indeed many times before — even where outright Championship winning models have been DQ’ed only to find the Second Place Championship model was ALSO out-of-Spec and also DQ’ed !!!  This stuff happens.) and therefore the apparent winner(s) will forfeit the Day 1 first place — hence ALL flyers will definitely WANT to fly on day 2 also, as an insurance policy, in case they need to place well on Day 2 instead (with a different, or legal model, of course).
4)  Not to mention that such Day 1 early morning 10 minute max fly-off competitors who definitety ARE out of the running after this fly-off, MUST be allowed sufficient time to retrieve their 10 minute round flights and prepare themselves for another back-to-back day of competition again on Day 2 !
5)  In fact, it is eminently possible that a Day 2 winner might be definitively selected and certified, before the Day 1 winner becomes clear !
6)  And so on….
Therefore it is highly likely that the three leading candidates will want to INSIST that they be permitted to also fly in the Day 2 event, for which they have already paid, and qualified, and are there on-site to do so.
Bear in mind also, that these are new rules that have NEVER been used before, therefore there will be all sorts of scenarios which the written rules, with the best of intentions, simply have not yet taken into account, due to the ambiguity of the written word.
It is sure to be an interesting Finals !  (If you are in any doubt what might and indeed can happen, re-read Bill Hartill’s account of the 1978 Team Selection at Taft, when it also happened to rain during the proceedings, and when all manner of unique Jury challenging one-off occurrences took place that year).
Have Fun,

... Maybe the TSC should levy certain literary sportmen for the entertainment they derive from talking about it rather than doing ding and thus boost team funds ?

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