SEN 1464

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Category: Archive 2010
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Table of Contents - SEN 1464

  1. Non team selection News - maybe
  2. F1Q comment
  3. New Rules for F1Q?
  4. Danish invasion
  5. More World Cup news and the Ike
  6. Leeper's TS thoughts
  7. Happersett on the multi contest format
  8. More from Mikey
  9. TSC representation


Non - Team selection news , maybe?

I have confirmed that July 18-22, 2011 is the date for the Free Flight Nats/ USOC in Muncie, Indiana. Additionally, the Detroit Balsa Bugs will be hosting the 62nd Annual Inter- City Meet Memorial Day weekend, May 28-29, 2011.

Bill Shailor

 F1Q
I don't see anyone maxing out consistantly over here. I fly the event, and I would hate to see it become like F1C, with only 3 or 4 guys flying it.
I think a good start to controling the event would be to set parameters like the other F-- events.
Maybe minimum wing area of 300 sq in.  Max wing area of 350 Sq in.
Minimum weight of 10 oz.
Power: 3 cell lipo max. Max battery weight 20% of total plane weight.
Thermals,
Rex Hinson

- Rex

Editor's note

I was at 2 events recently - the ESFFC in Ingleside MD and the SW FAI Challenge at El Dorado Dry lake and it seemed to me that we had an increasing number of people  flying and the performances were  much better than at the beginning of the year.

New rules for F1Q?

The "when" is obvious: as soon as possible! That means 2012 ... if the
FAI-meeting in April 2011 comes to a decision. Contest organizers could,
however, apply a new rule as soon as it is published if they anounce this in
their invitation.

The "what" is still under discussion. As far as I know most active fliers do
NOT want the Energy limiter - there are many unsolved questions including a
missing prototype for free flight. The RC fraternity, however, wants to have
it as a "proven" concept. The FAI plenary is dominated by RC ... Rules
proposals as of now (FFSC and Austria) are for a motor weight limit (8% of
the flying weight, upper limit 45g), the main difference between both is
that Austria wants gearing to be included in the weight, while the FFSC
proposal does not mention this.

The 8% rule would allow a good spiral climb but prevent vertical F1C-like
patterns. And it would keep the class simple for fliers AND organizers. An
EL rule would rise the cost of the plane's equipment by a substantial amount
and should force organizers to invest in checking equipment ... just ask
about the problems at the last RC champs in the USA!

Keep your fingers crossed with me that a simple rule will come out of the
FAI discussion.

Klaus W. Salzer from Austria

Editorial Comment - Klaus references the issues in checking the energy limiter at the F5 Champs at Munice . I would like to see references in the modelling press to that. Anyone seen any ?
 




Danish invasion - you still have to go to Solvang for the pastries ..

Walt Ghio This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


This coming year, 2011 we will have a week of FAI contest in October at the Lost Hills flying site. I have decided to move the Bissonnette Memorial or Big Al’s as we refer to this contest to the middle of the week between the California FAI Invitational and the Sierra Cup. For the last few years we have had issues with the windy conditions during Memorial Day. The United States FF Champs moved to October because of the conditions and I have decided that Big Al’s needed to move from this date also.


With some help from our friends in Denmark, Big Al’s will be a World Cup contest. The new name will be the “Bissonnette Cup of Denmark”. The World Cup rules allow countries to hold a contest in different countries. The Danes have their Nordic Cup contest in Sweden during the summer. When I talked to Henning Nyhegn about using the second Danish World Cup date he felt that it would be “ok”. After checking with his fellow FAI flyers in Denmark they have agreed to allow me to use their second World Cup date here in California. The entry has been sent into the FAI and Big Al’s will be on the World Cup schedule for next year.


The California FAI Invitational will be on October 8th and 9th. Big Al’s will hold a World Cup F1E contest on October 10th. F1ABCP will be held on Tuesday the 11th and F1GHJQ will be held on October 12th. We will also have the Nostalgia Wakefield and Vintage FAI power events, Wakefield on the 11th and Power on the 12th. The Sierra Cup will be held on the 14th, 15thth. and 16


The week of contest at Lost Hills in February has been a Mecca for the FAI Free Flight flyers of the World. We felt that the same type contest format would give the FAI flyers a second date to come to California and enjoy the fall weather. The history of our weather is excellent during October. With it being the end of the year those who are in contention for a World Cup position will have two contests to attend within five days at the same flying site.


A more formal contest announcement will appear in due course



Other World Cup news and the Ike

The Dutch modellers have been wanting to have a World Cup event in memory of Anselmo Zeri who lived and flew in Holland for many years.  At the moment Holland does not have any suitable flying sites for an event of this stature.  Plans are well advanced to hold this event in conjunction with the 2011 Isaacson Winter Classic. This would replace the F1ABCPQ and E events giving them World Cup status. The rest of the Ike program would continue as is, unabated and even expanded to include compressed air. This latter cannot become an FAI event because we have run out of letters :-), but it can be powered by the hot air generated by the USA Team Selection and F1Q energy limiter discussions.  More information will follow in due course.  So start making your plans for February and October





The Leeper's TS Thoughts

I have been studying the Team Selection program revision dialog carefully,
and must say I concur with Roger Simpson and Alex's well conceived
& presented ideas entirely.

Time has been marching on with it's usual inevitability, such that now
it is clear we must act!

Having separate contests that count toward selection at suitable venues
as mentioned allows for obvious cost savings re program budget, while
seeming to not impact the participants budgets inordinately.
Roger's long & storied history of FAI dedication should prompt all to
realize we are seemingly at a crossroads which requires careful steering
to negotiate. 
He has provided the direction to take for success in our future, in my estimation.

Lee Hines


The Multi-Contest format

Maybe  its  time  to  try  something  new.  A  mulity  contest  format  doesn't  sound  like  a  bad  idea.   I'm  not  sure  how  the  adminstration  will  be  handled  with  different  C.D.s  Also  the  14  round  marathon  will  be  gone.  A  point  system  should  work  to  maintain  the  consistency  factor.       I   normaly  don't  send  E mails,  so  I  want  it  to  be  know  that  my  models  are  being  held  hostage  to  get  me  to  respond.      

 Kenny Happersett


More from Mikey

Hello again,

 Well an interesting exchange of ideas,   I have a few comments. I have been trying to change this program for about 20 plus years. In '96 thought I had a good shot at it and had proposed a lengthy proposal with contests all over the country. I started it before the Finals in '94 and continued as a team member in '95.  Everyone keeps thinking or referring that I do this to improve my chances to make the team every time. This is almost laughable!! I went to the '08 Finals and the '10 Finals and think it ‘s the first finals I have flown at in a decade!! And went with one model!! Wow, really a big threat! Don't know why I seem to get singled out for offering a different idea on how to do this!! No matter, I will keep trying to get my point across. I believe in each event there are 10 to 15 top fliers that would make a great team, and another 5 or so that are not far behind, and will get better flying in more select finals contests, further closing the gap.

< p> I got the "oh you want a program so you can make the team all the time" in '96! I said change the program and I will fly and if I get lucky and make the team I will not accept the spot! Told some I would put it in writing if they doubted my word! It is about creating an program that will keep people involved and interested from cycle to cycle. It is the 2 year hole and the finality of one contest that is the major problem. If you have a timing problem, mech. failure, go out of sight, or just screw up, you are out for 2 years and have to wait 2 years to try again. This is the problem! If it is just one contest of many, it not such a big deal! Softens the blow if you will!! No time to lose interest as you have another contest not too far away. That's the point!!! And I believe it is fairer!!

At one Finals, one competitor did go out of sight straight up in the sun! He is out! Real bad luck!! It's free flight! Things happens!! Hardly fair, but it is what it is!!

  Now, as to Bill's comments. I think he asked fair questions to a point. Maybe it could have been worded a little differently, but reasonable inquires. I have been in touch with him and he was unaware of some of the problems that have happen over the past 40 plus years. The point of this is I'm not proposing program changes to make it easier for me or anyone in particular to make the team, I believe it is a better, fairer way to do it!! Period!!

The way I go about stuff, for me to have enough models to be a team member, it would take me about 5 years. It would take me that long to get a couple more models ready!! Not too serious!!

   Next, Rogers proposal is to count 2 contests. This seems a little short to me. I think we should at least count 3 for a better cross section.  Also I have talked to a number of program participants  and no one yet has told me Muncie is a good choice, due to its size. I have not been there and the people I have asked are all east and mid west fliers. In Rogers proposal, to offer 1/3 of the contests there, might be a bit much. Maybe 1 out of 6 at Muncie might be better, and then add one of the Feb. or Oct contests to make up taking one away from Muncie. Like I said I have not been there, but it is green grass which is kinda cool!! The program participants that fly there should let their thoughts known on this.

  As for a comment that our current program is lauded worldwide, is also laughable. And that is what the others around the world do, is laugh about it!! It does not matter what they think and that is not the reason to change. The reason to change is to show the jrs. that we are progressive ol' farts and can have a program as the juniors do! A multi contest format!!

  Last for today. The committee meeting is in Dec. and if you guys want to make your feelings, thoughts and ideas known, post them now so the TSC can have a good idea as to sentiment of the group. Let’s not  let apathy determine the future. Write your thoughts in to Sen. And thank you Roger for hosting this forum and allowing the exchange of ideas on your web page.


Thermals, Michael Achterberg




TSC membership process

Roger,

 I felt this process should be better understood by all.

 In reference to your SEN 1463 summary #6, I hope that the attachment from the AMA document “World Championship Teams (Procedures Governing the Academy’s Sponsorship of FAI Teams)” will clear up any misconceptions as to how the members of the TSC are selected. You can talk to Charlie Jones who just went through the process. I believe it can hardly be construed as undemocratic. The whole document can be accessed on the AMA web site. I think it is something EVERY participant should read cover to cover.

 I’ve enjoyed the lively discussion taking place at this time.

 

 Keep up the good work,

 Paul Crowley


NOTE : we did not include the attachment that Paul mentions as it is a scanned image and we currently do not include picture in SEN.



Roger Morrell's comment


Paul thanks for bringing this to our attentions.

I read the rules with interest.  It states that the TSC member can be nominated by participating members in   the district, the AMA VP for the district of the President or he relevant SIG .

The program says that the person must be ratified by a majority of the votes received from the  program   members who are valid AMA members in that district and by the AMA District VP

I do not remember ever voting on the confirmation of the TSC member for District 10 since I have been in the program and I believe that the TSC member has changed in the last 15 or so years.

Also there is no term limit or requirement to re-confirm a person's membership of the TSC as the demographics, etc of the change and may be the person's involvement in FAI Free Flight.

There is also not requirement that a person live in that district. That means that a district could in fact have greater representation if a TSC member does not live or no longer lives in the district that they represent.

There is nothing to stop a person representing a district that does not have any participants. In that case why is the person on the TSC ?



.............................
Roger Morrell