SEN 851 - 10 Feb 2004
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SCAT Electronic News 10 February 2004 issue 851
Table of Contents
=================
The Sleeping Free Flight Community! - Barker
Editorial Sleeper
2004 Winter Classic, F1E - Parker and Brocks
Shock Biggles Sighting Confirmed: - W.E. Johns
Lube 33 - Ioerger
Free Flight Quarterly's new website - Montes
re: Stop Watch - Sisson
Lorbieckie's D boxes - Brokenspar
Repairing D-boxes. - Fantham
Big Timer - Augustus
Response to Repairing Carbon D Boxes.... - Lorbiecki - Farmer
Fixe D - J O'R
MMM 2004 contest calendar - Deloach
The Sleeping Free Flight Community!
===================================
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Jorgen
Dealing first with your mention of my work on rubber lubricants. I did try
silicon lubricants, they worked OK but, like you, I found them so messy I
could not be bothered with them. I believe that the greases are better in
that respect but I have not tried. If you remember I said at the time that
I stopped testing because I realized that the energy figures produced by the
testers who stretched the rubber and the testers who twisted the rubber were
substantially the same. If the lubricant is critical then there should be
big differences. I now believe that the other factors such as handling,
drying out, damage to hooks and fuselages and the like are more important
than the slipperiness.
Turning to your more general worry. I have also noticed the lack of
significant discussions on SCAT. Definitely not your fault Roger, it is the
rest of us. A few suggestions:
A lot of the top flyers are now buying their aeroplanes so they often do
not need to discuss much except 'what is the Best Buy?'. If you look at
(radio) magazines nowadays they are mostly test reports of new RTFs or ARTFs
and FAI free flight is going the same way.
On SCAT to some extent and certainly on another mailing list I subscribe to,
the serious topics rarely last, but the trivial or humorous threads will go
on and on. I know that most of us in FF are getting on in years and it
seems that many flyers no longer wish to put in much effort. It is
incredible to me that the most popular rubber class is a 30" aeroplane with
a bought plastics propeller. It is the sort of thing that most of us scorned
as beneath us fifty years ago.
I have lost some confidence in responding to items on the list because
occasionally I spend some time on a reply and there is no response, it is as
if it had not been published. You sometimes wonder; have I made a fool of
myself? Have I missed the point? Have I offended someone? I am not weeping
here and wanting a pat on the head just suggesting something that may be
making others slow to join in as well. Related to this but not quite the
same. There are a few listers, and one in particular, who often ask direct
technical questions. I used to respond, sometimes off-line with detailed
explanations and diagrams, and never had a single word in reply. Now I
don't bother.
To give the other side of the picture. Last year I asked on SCAT for some
advice on catapult glider. The response was rapid and generous. The top
glider fliers from the US and some other parts of the world answered
off-line at great length and it was much appreciated. I did thank them all
individually but I would like to say publicly that that sort of thing makes
Free Flight what it is.
You may be interested to know that Phil Ball and Andrew Hewitt gave a talk
on discus launched HLGs at the Free Flight Forum in November 2003. They
brought their gliders with them. They are FF, about 60" span with a timer
operated rudder. Should kill FF HLG as we know it!
Regards
John Barker - England
Editorial Sleeper
=================
There are times when I seriously consider stooping SEN. A few months ago
I prepared the final issue. However I got some more words of encouragement
so decided to continue. I was convinced that there were many sleepers out
there that appreciated the value of what we all write.
For me the most discouraging words are embedded in John's note above
when he talks about getting or sending notes "off line". Clearly
I understand how people may want to make private comments but if
one goes to the effort of writing someithing - why not publish it ?
someone will will enjoy it. I think too often we are concerned
that people may not be interested or poke fun at what we write.
Jorgen did express a valid concern and we have it in our hands
to write and SEND it to SEN. If just a 25 % of those off line
notes were published SEN would be ever so much richer
and wipe out Jorgen's concerns.
2004 Winter Classic, F1E
========================
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Jim Parker's View.
Quite a view that impressed upon those who made the trek the vast amount of
newly plowed land. Once this turns green, we'll have a perfect place to
practice for Eastern USA and European contest! One could also see 2 mile
x 2-mile area of land (with the new oil rig tower) that is being
investigated for purchase. See is believing, it is time to act if wish to
be able to claim the finest FF flying field in the world.
CD, Peter Brock: We had a great F1E contest up on the hill south of the
Lost Hills field entrance. The results were:
1st Peter Brocks 500%
2nd Jon Davis 347.81%
3rd Norm Smith 327.75%
4th Bob Norton 315.17
5 rounds flown, 120 sec max followed by 4 180 sec maxes. No one made a maxed
but Peter came within a few seconds on one flight. After the flying, the
CD passed out Czech beer and San Francisco pretzels (our version of
cheese and wine). After the award ceremony, A mass launch was made- Peter
made a great 5 plus minute flight. Next year is the F1E Team Selection
Contest on Tues after the Winter Classic. Contact Peter Brocks for more
information.
Jim Parker for Peter Brocks
Jim Parker's other observation from the hill top.
Quite a view that impressed those that made the trek up the hill. The
vast amount of newly plowed land overwhelms our once FF paradise. Once
this turns green, we'll have a perfect place to practice for Eastern USA
and European contest! One could also see 2-mile x 2-mile area of land
(with the new oil rig tower) that is being investigated for purchase.
Seeing is believing, it is time to act if
wish to be able to claim the finest FF flying field in the world.
Shock Biggles Sighting Confirmed:
=================================
OK, so I admit it - Roger has uncovered the mystery. I have recently
been in hiding at a secret training camp perfecting the art of
Discuss Launch, in preparation for the time when I become old enough
to begin flying Wakefield !
For aspiring F1B flyers seeking DL pilot training lessons, including
the seven steps to correct footwork, all-important grip and release
techniques and dizzy-ness prevention therapy, not to mention the Skip
Yogi function - or, simply for the pensive Sportsperson wishing to
pick up a stylish Max Men T-Shirt, stop by the VW Camper Van this
weekend.
PS: Roger - I think you have confused your errands with your gerunds ?
Yours Sincerely
Knight Errant (aka Biggles)
Lube 33
=======
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Hi Roger
Please tell Jorgen that the best rubber lube is DOW 33 Ultra Low
Temperature bearing grease. Some years ago, I conducted some comparison
tests and concluded that it was the best . Some of the liquid silicones
were close in numbers of turns before bursting, but their tendency to get
all over everything elevated the "stay in place" grease to first place.
DOW 33 comes in a large green tube and looks like a pencil eraser when
you squeeze it out. It is available from most large bearing shops.
I can't wait to see the first F1B discus launch.
Thermals
Tom Ioerger
[Tom
great minds .. etc both John Malkin and I use that too. ]
Free Flight Quarterly's new website
===================================
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Roger,
Could you please insert this announcement in next SCAT?
regards
Sergio
Free Flight Quarterly has a new website address:
www.freeflightquarterly.com
If you enter the website you will find the familiar face of the previous
site developed by Jan Pudney. The new site is maintained by Chris
Stoddart and has already received a number of small alterations. In
the future we intend to provide a number of technical articles for
downloading.
Sergio Montes
re: Stop Watch
===============
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My question would be: what stop watch did Brokenspar buy?
Bob Sisson
Lorbieckie's D boxes
=====================
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The best method I have forund for 'repair' of carbon D boxes
is to have two ( or more ) crashes, trying the while to get
alternate rights and lefts.
This gets you repaired with no actual work.
One problem with this method is color ( colour ) schemes.
Stick to uniform and exchangable model parts. This worked well
for the Verbitsky ( the Master ) red Wing.
When you have an uneven number of crashes, it gets complicated.
Sometimes a buddy can help. Charlie Stiles usually has a
basement full of parts.
He only lives an hour and a half away ( one way )
Visiting Charlie I usually get confused....last time I would up
with an extra Coupe...
....remove AMA numbers...
All this saves on cyano..
Brokenspar
Repairing D-boxes.
==================
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This for John Lorbiecki ( and Jorgen too - it's technique stuff!)
I have done this twice. Once in Motel 6 at Lost Hills and once on the
bench at home. I cut out the damaged section of D-box right to the back of
the spar at home with the wing uncovered, or leaving a 3 mm strip at the
back of the spar if the covering is on. I left the rib cap strips on the
back of spar in each case - for the home repair I cut little slots out of
the new skin to fit the front ends of the rib caps. For the 'field'
repair, I pealed back the leading edge covering carefully before cutting
the D-box and stuck it back with contact cement afterwards! You need to
cut the D-box between ribs, leaving enough good skin to glue a strip of
D-box material under the 'good' D-box against the rib you didn't expose
each end of the gap - cutting it carefully with a new scalpel blade half
way between 15mm spaced nose ribs is good - dont cut the spar! These
'butt-strap' strips need to be about 6mm wide. I cut these strips and the
D-box repair skin from spare D-box material that I put in my box for the
purpose when I started flying the D-box models! You now have a gap with a
ledge all round it to glue the carefully trimmed new skin on to. Glue the
6mm strap in with 5 minute epoxy - don't forget to scrape clean the mating
surfaces. Keep everything nice and true.
Now repair/replace any damaged leading edge ribs - get them lined up with
the others by packing under the gap if you are back on the jig - remember
that the wing may not sit nicely on the jig with the rib cap strips on -
they weren't there when you built the wing originally.
Finally scrape clean all joint surfaces , put glue on the ribs, the spar
and the 6mm straps. Put that exact-fit bit of skin in and hold it while it
sets. Easy on the jig but some plastic bag and tape will have to do 'on
the field'. One or two hour epoxy is good here.
Having read that back over, it may not help. If you need more, see me at
the Max Men ( actual models available) or I'll do a sketch.........
Regards
Mike Fantham
( frantically preparing models for Lost Hills....see some of you there...)
Big Timer
===========
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Wanted - Does anyone have any of the old 60-minute DT timers made by
Otto Bernhardt for use in SAM Texaco events? Yes, 60-minute, not
6-minute. The are made from a Swiss wind-up timer alarm used to warn
you when your parking meter was about to show red. They were attached
to a key chain and Otto removed the clock part and made them into DT
timers. I'm looking for either the Assembled DT timer, or just the
original parking meter alarm device.
Also wonder if anyone makes a single or 2-function electronic timer
that could be used for the same purpose? Roger? Bruce Augustus
[Bruse - I think Little Magic will do what you need ...]
Response to Repairing Carbon D Boxes.... - Lorbiecki
====================================================
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John - I have some thoughts on this - for what they're worth coming from a
no-account ex-teenage A2 flier, and complete rookie with carbon structures.
If you're still interested after that, I recently repaired an F1H Dbox, with
all kinds of help and advice from Jim Parker and others. On that deal there
was basically a chunk missing out of the leading edge, so not really any
pieces to glue back together. Jim sent me a scrap taco shell that I
overlapped on - like you suggested - which seemed to work fine. Hasn't been
towed yet, so we'll see. Here's my thoughts though. Once there's damage
to these carbon structures, there's just no hope of bringing them back to
original condition. If you try to cut it close and mimic the original
structure, more than likely at some location it will be weaker than the
original. On top of that there will be stress concentration areas because
of the nonuniformity introduced by any repair. It seems to me then that the
best you can hope for is to try and make the repaired area stronger than the
original, and feather it into the surrounding area as much as possible. I
wonder if just applying a patch will get it done every time. One thing that
I thought about but didn't do on the F1H was to glue in or inject in some
foam in the damaged bay, and sand it flush with the top of the surrounding
dbox to provide a gluing surface for the patch. Something like that would
give stability to the patch, making a mini spar-like strucure - possibly
stronger than the original (assuming the original structure is not foam
filled). Maybe I'm overcomplicating it since we're just talking about the
Dbox and not the spar. Anyway, that's as far as I've taken the thought
process. Good luck with future repairs that you hopefully won't need to
make.
Jim Farmer
Fixe D
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The best repair for a "D" box that I am aware of is to slip another piece of
"D" box over the damaged area.
JO'R
MMM 2004 contest calendar
=========================
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Free Flight Brethren,
The Colorado Magnificent Mountain Men are pleased to announce another season
of free flight at our fabulous 23,000 acre field east of Denver. Dates and
CDs are listed below. Note that the date for the FAI 14-rounder has changed
from July 4th to the weekend following the actual holiday. We thought this
would give modelers a chance to spend time with their families on the
Fourth. 2004 will mark the 39th running of Rocky Mountain FF Champs/FAI
Dynasty Cup.
The MMM are proud to be known as one of the friendliest clubs in the nation.
We welcome out of towners to our little slice of heaven at any time. We have
access to the field 365 days a year so almost every day the weather is nice
there are guys out there flying. Just drop us an e-mail at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
for a map to the field and the gate combo. And if you are interested in
mountain vacation before or after you fly we will be more than happy to
point you in the right direction.
Check the MMM website (www.themmmclub.com) and the NFFS contest calendar
(www.freeflight.org) for more information.
Thermals,
Don DeLoach
President, MMM
719-578-1197
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April 18: Monthly - Rick Pangell
May 16: Monthly - Pete McQuade
June 6: Monthly (combined w/ SAM1) - Darold Jones
June 26: Summer Social
July 10 & 11: 25th Annual FAI - Chuck Etherington &
amp; Bill Lovins
July 25: Monthly (late day w/ BBQ) - Duane Hjerleid & Sweeny Hayashi
August 15: Monthly - Roland Solomon
August 28 & 29: 39th Annual Rocky Mountain FF Champs and Dynasty Cup -
Jerry Murphy & Don DeLoach
September 19: Monthly - Jackson Ivey
October 17: 2nd Annual Magnificent Max Meet - Dave Wineland
November 7: Monthly - Art Hillis
Monthly event menu: AMA and Classic Gas (½A, A, B, C, D) combined; Slow Open
Power/Nostalgia Gas combined; 3-minute max rubber (Mulvihill, Gollywock,
Nostalgia) combined; FAI 3-minute max (F1A, F1B, F1C, F1P) combined;
2-minute max (P-30, .020 Old Timer Replica, mini FAI - F1G, F1H, F1J)
combined; HLG/CLG combined.
July 10-11 FAI 14-Rounder events: 14 rounds of F1A, F1B, F1C, F1P over two
days, 6 rounds of F1G, F1H, F1J over two days, and a HLG/CLG shootout
following the scheduled flying Saturday. Additionally, a few popular
non-FAI events will be flown. P-30 will fly Saturday and Gollywock and Open
Power Sunday (each event 3 flights - not in rounds). Banquet Saturday
night.
August 28-29 Rocky Mountain FF Champs/Dynasty Cup events: Power (AMA Gas
1/2A, A, B, C/D)(Classic Gas 1/2A, ABCD)(.020 Old Timer)(Nostalgia 1/2A,
ABCD/MMM Slow Open Power); Rubber (P-30, Mulvihill, Gollywock, Nostalgia
Rubber/Nostalgia Wakefield); Glider (HLG, CLG); FAC Scale (Peanut, Rubber,
Power); Junior events (Gas, Rubber, Towline, HLG, CLG). SAM events: (Small
Rubber, Large Rubber, Cabin Gas, Pylon Gas, 020 Replica, HLG, CLG). Dynasty
Cup (FAI) events: (Saturday 7 rounds - F1A, F1B, F1C, F1P; Sunday 5 rounds -
F1G, F1H, F1J).
...............
Roger Morrell
