SEN 861 - 12 Mar 2004
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SCAT Electronic News 12 March 2004 issue 861
Table of contnets
=================
F1B World Cup - Boutillier
Bear Cup 2004 video - Kiljunen
Lost Jacket - Leath
Honda Cub - Tymchek
F1A parts for sale.
Still Crusing
SCAT Annual - Coleman
Ajax, Achilles, Exeter etc - Moseley
A NEW WORLD CUP EVENT : The Philippe Lepage Criterium - Nikitenko
NFFS News - Pterson
Tow and Toss for F1A, F1B and maybe F1C? - Mekina
Bill Gibbons, AMA 830 - Murphy
F1B World Cup
=============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger,
Please find as an attached document the results of the Philippe Lepage World
Cup F1B contest.
Bernard B.
F1B
===
SILZ Bernd GER 451 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 540 1800 1
PAFF Dieter GER 1579 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 520 1780 2
WOODHOUSE Michael GBR 3426 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 411 1671 3
GHIO Walt USA 1532 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 385 1645 4
HELMBRECHT Heiko GER 183 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 347 1607 5
SALZER Klaus AUT 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 342 1602 6
TEDESCHI Serge FRA 668 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 237 1497 7
WOOLNER Mike GBR 5795 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 235 1495 8
ZERI Anselmo NED 2606 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 26 1286 9
PEERS Russel GBR 2741 240 180 180 180 180 960 300 1260 0 1260 10
VAN HOORN Henk NED 6552 226 180 180 180 180 946 946 946 11
LUCASSEN Roel NED 6647 220 180 180 180 180 940 940 940 12
SCHMELTER Uli GER 249 212 180 180 180 180 932 932 932 13
ZIELBERG Igor GER 2568 240 180 180 175 180 895 895 895 14
BARBERIS Didier FRA 551 192 172 180 180 180 892 892 892 15
MONNINGHOFFPeter GER 26 240 180 180 168 180 888 888 888 16
SEIFERT Rolf GER 253 240 180 160 180 180 880 880 880 17
CHENEAU Jean ClaudFRA 257 240 180 155 180 180 875 875 875 18
TEMPLIER Pierre OliFRA 1026 240 163 170 180 180 873 873 873 19
MEUSBURGER Harald AUT 3018 211 180 152 180 180 872 872 872 20
YURTSEVEN Ismet TUR 007 240 146 180 180 180 866 866 866 21
BUISSON Guy FRA504 240 180 180 145 180 865 865 865 22
FEIJTH Wim NED 7026 220 180 127 180 180 847 847 847 23
GREAVES David GBR 9641 240 180 111 180 180 831 831 831 24
RAPIN Fran=E7oisFRA 283 238 106 180 168 180 814 814 814 25
EVATT Michael GBR 3137 133 180 180 180 126 799 799 799 26
SCHODER Hans SUI 5525 240 180 150 107 180 797 797 797 27
MARQUOIS Lea FRA 1202 240 180 180 111 133 784 784 784 28
JALLET Stephen FRA 4068 240 180 180 157 77 774 774 774 29
VOSKENS Frans NED 6170 163 180 180 180 67 770 770 770 30
CRINS Erik NED 6649 156 132 180 102 180 750 750 750 31
CHAPMAN ChristopheGBR 2674 156 142 146 116 180 740 740 740 32
MATHERAT Georges FRA 263 210 180 136 180 29 705 705 705 33
FAASSEN Michiel NED 6593 177 150 180 180 2 689 689 689 34
VAN EEDE Ton NED21331 8 124 172 180 8 492 492 492 35
GARET Claude 8603009 120 66 83 107 0 376 376 376NC
BLANCHARD Jacques 402200 90 132 88 0 0 310 310 310NC
F1G
====
29/02/2004 : coupe d'hiver Maurice = Bayet
Nom Prenom Numero vol1vol2vol3TOTAF.O.totaplace
Werfl Helmut GER 3146 120 120 120 360 300 660 1
Zeri Anselmo NDL 2606 120 120 120 360 255 615 2
Manoni AlessandroITA 1169 120 120 120 360 201 561 3
Werfl Helmut GER 3146 120 120 120 360 198 558 4
Sharp Frederick GBR 4530 120 120 120 360 194 554 5
Manoni AlessandroITA 1169 120 120 120 360 189 549 6
Chapman ChristopheGBR 2674 120 120 120 360 187 547 7
Tonon Michel FRA 1021 120 120 120 360 183 543 8
Boucher Rene FRA 9204 120 120 120 360 166 526 9
Dupuis Louis FRA 8505 120 120 120 360 164 524 10
Dupuis Louis FRA 8505 120 120 120 360 162 522 11
Lavenent Henri FRA 8606 120 120 120 360 159 519 12
Galichet Antoine FRA 8407 120 120 120 360 156 516 13
Frugoli J.Francis FRA 8503 120 120 120 360 143 503 14
Jallet Yvon FRA 0107 120 120 120 360 140 500 15
Adjadj Lucien FRA 9901 120 120 120 360 139 499 16
Brancard Alain FRA 9801 120 120 120 360 139 499 17
Dowsett Ian GBR 5651 120 120 120 360 135 495 18
Farley Nicholas GBR 8834 120 120 120 360 135 495 19
Chapman ChristopheGBR 2674 120 120 120 360 132 492 20
Matherat Georges FRA 2087 120 120 120 360 125 485 21
Templier Pierre-OliFRA 9101 120 120 120 360 125 485 22
Miard Michel FRA 2071 120 120 120 360 120 480 23
Buisson Guy FRA 8606 120 120 120 360 120 480 24
Templier FeDanielle FRA 9101 120 120 120 360 119 479 25
Marquois Bernard FRA 8505 120 120 120 360 118 478 26
Lavenent Henri FRA 8601 120 120 120 360 114 474 27
Miard Michel FRA 2071 120 120 120 360 97 457 28
Djian Michel FRA 9801 120 120 120 360 92 452 29
Buisson Guy FRA 8606 120 120 120 360 87 447 30
Templier FeDanielle FRA 9101 120 120 120 360 86 446 31
Zeri Anselmo NDL 2606 120 120 120 360 64 424 32
Challine Jean-PierrFRA 8407 120 120 120 360 0 360 33
Challis Edward GBR 1923 120 120 120 360 0 360 34
Galichet Antoine FRA 8407 120 120 120 360 0 360 35
Greaves David GBR 0096 120 120 120 360 0 360 36
Michaud Bernard FRA 9805 120 120 120 360 0 360 37
Rennesson Andre FRA 0408 120 120 120 360 0 360 38
Frugoli J.Francis FRA 8503 120 118 120 358 358 39
Evatt Michael GBR 3137 120 120 112 352 352 40
Matherat Georges FRA 2087 120 120 112 352 352 41
Marrot Pierre FRA 9801 120 120 110 350 350 42
Meritte Andre FRA 8807 120 120 108 348 348 43
Ghio Walt USA 5325 107 120 120 347 347 44
Templier Jean-PierrFRA 8407 104 120 120 344 344 45
Lusisic Charles FRA 8602 120 120 98 338 338 46
Millet Serge FRA 8505 98 120 120 338 338 47
Drapeau Jean-Luc FRA 8603 120 120 93 333 333 48
Meritte Andre FRA 8807 120 120 90 330 330 49
Lotz Reiner GER 1649 120 120 89 329 329 50
Donnet jacques FRA95049 120 120 83 323 323 51
Greaves David GBR 0096 120 120 83 323 323 52
Marrot Pierre FRA 9801 120 80 120 320 320 53
Aubry Yves FRA 8408 116 120 83 319 319 54
Templier Pierre-OliFRA 9101 104 120 85 309 309 55
Tyson Edward GBR 0671 120 85 104 309 309 56
Millet Serge FRA 8505 120 66 120 306 306 57
Stracham Chris GBR 0336 80 120 104 304 304 58
Challine Jean-PierrFRA 8407 63 120 120 303 303 59
Garrigou Roger FRA 9302 95 87 120 302 302 60
Weber Claude FRA 8407 85 93 120 298 298 61
Axworthy Timothy 9706404 57 120 120 297 297 62
Evatt Michael GBR 3137 88 120 87 295 295 63
Beales AB David GBR 8159 120 49 120 289 289 64
Delcroix Jacques FRA 8500 120 49 113 282 282 65
Marquois Camille FRA 9606 120 95 55 270 270 66
Jallet JuniStephen FRA 0406 100 89 66 255 255 67
Marshall Michael GBR05541 120 82 52 254 254 68
Garet Claude FRA86030 85 80 77 242 242 69
Delcroix Jacques FRA 8500 120 120 0 240 240 70
White AB John HiltoGBR 0806 92 68 71 231 231 71
Sharp Frederick GBR4530 120 108 0 228 228 72
Rennesson Andre FRA 0408 92 120 0 212 212 73
Fournier Jean-MarieFRA 9305 85 86 39 210 210 74
Norget Daniel FRA 9702 2 55 120 177 177 75
Blanchard Jacques 402200 64 62 48 174 174 76
Beales David GBR 8159 105 58 11 174 174 77
Lusisic Charles FRA 8602 107 60 0 167 167 78
Menget Christian FRA 8407 56 106 0 162 162 79
Matherat FeLouise FRA 2087 93 68 0 161 161 80
White John HiltoGBR 0806 50 0 107 157 157 81
Adjadj Lucien FRA 9901 83 72 0 155 155 82
Axworthy Timothy 7753/970 76 76 0 152 152 83
Bonnot Andre FRA 8500 62 30 60 152 152 84
Patte Alexandre 19414 44 73 28 145 145 85
Garet Claude FRA86030 120 0 0 120 120 86
Djian Michel FRA 9801 117 0 0 117 117 87
Binet AB Claude FRA 2071 115 0 0 115 115 88
Molinie Michel FRA 1941 76 28 0 104 104 89
Binet Claude FRA 2071 103 0 0 103 103 90
Coutineau JPaul FRA 0202 45 45 0 90 90 91
Tyson Edward GBR 0671 59 0 0 59 59 92
All rights reserved
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Vintage Coupe d'hiver
=====================
29-02-04 : Modeles Anciens - CH
Nom/Prenom Modele Nation vol1vol2vol3TOTAF.O.totaplace
TEMPLIER Pierre C.H Babar 53 F 120 120 120 360 205 565 1
CHALLIS Edward C.H Lo Zigolo 52GB 120 120 120 360 154 514 2
MERITTE Andre C.H Machaon 53 F 120 120 120 360 153 513 3
DJIAN Michel C.H Jumping 2-56F 120 120 120 360 147 507 4
MOLINIE Michel C.H Bagatelle 53F 120 120 120 360 114 474 5
MARROT Pierre C.H Jumping 2 53F 120 120 120 360 111 471 6
DJIAN Michel C.H Bagatelle 53F 120 120 120 360 0 360 7
MILLET Serge C.H Hokus-Pokus F 116 120 112 348 348 8
BINET Claude C.H Babar 53 F 117 104 120 341 341 9
DUPUIS Louis C.H Lo Zigolo 52F 94 120 120 334 334 10
MICHEL Peter C.H Etienvre 54 GB 120 120 94 334 334 11
BATHE Nigel C.H Zigolo n=B01GB 120 82 120 322 322 12
BATHE Nigel C.H Zigolo n=B02GB 88 120 112 320 320 13
STRACHAM Chris C.H Fuit 3 54 GB 112 97 106 315 315 14
CAVEZZALE Gino C.H Kim 2-52 F 83 104 120 307 307 15
TYSON Edward C.H Bagatelle 54GB 84 98 120 302 302 16
DELCROIX JacquesC.H Jump 49 F 115 110 71 296 296 17
ADJADJ Lucien C.H Kim 51 F 94 64 120 278 278 18
WHITE John HiltoC.H Lo Zigolo 52GB 68 80 120 268 268 19
DEUR Claude C.H Machaon 53 F 81 66 104 251 251 20
MARSHALL MichaelC.H Zigolo 54 GB 71 120 44 235 235 21
CAVEZZALE Gino C.H Morisset 46 F 67 77 88 232 232 22
WEBER Claude C.H Kim 2-52 F 42 67 104 213 213 23
MICHEL Peter C.H Bagatelle 54GB 90 117 0 207 207 24
GARRIGOU Roger C.H Garrigou 48 F 57 69 71 197 197 25
BONNOT Andre C.H Garcia 54 F 57 36 60 153 153 26
DEUR Claude C.H Machaon 53 F 65 47 0 112 112 27
MARROT Pierre C.H Jumping 2 53F 63 0 0 63 63 28
MENGET ChristianC.H Menget 50 F 48 0 0 48 48 29
AUBRY Yves C.H Mikado 53 F 2 36 0 38 38 30
Vintage Wakefield
=================
28-02-04 : WAKES ANCIENS
Nom/Prenom Modele vol1 vol2vol3totaF.O.totaF.O.totaPlace
STRACHAM Chris WAK ANCIEN COPLA 180 180 180 540 300 840 2251065 1
MICHEL Peter WAK ANCIEN LANZO 180 180 180 540 300 840 2101050 2
CHAPMAN ChristopWAK ANCIEN 37 162 180 170 512 512 512 3
CHALLIS Edward WAK ANCIEN YANKE 180 180 151 511 511 511 4
STRACHAM Chris WAK ANCIEN WOODO 180 151 173 504 504 504 5
TYSON Edward WAK ANCIEN FULLE 178 112 180 470 470 470 6
BEALES David WAK ANCIEN 39 147 130 180 457 457 457 7
FARLEY Nicholas WAK ANCIEN LANZO 105 177 161 443 443 443 8
MICHEL Peter WAK ANCIEN COPLA 180 117 100 397 397 397 9
ADJADJ Lucien WAK ANCIEN YUWAK 123 130 110 363 363 363 10
GARRIGOU Roger WAK ANCIEN GARRI 81 180 94 355 355 355 11
DEUR Claude WAK ANCIEN VIBRA 92 121 110 323 323 323 12
BINET Claude WAK ANCIEN LEFOR 106 127 78 311 311 311 13
DOWSETT Ian WAK ANCIEN DOWSE 88 180 0 268 268 268 14
WEBER Claude WAK ANCIEN ARIST 70 84 84 238 238 238 15
WHITE John HiltoWAK ANCIEN COPLA 59 54 10 123 123 123 16
BATHE Nigel WAK ANCIEN QUERMAN 48 0 0 0 17
COX Bill 0 0 0 18
Bear Cup 2004 video
===================
Sender : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I made short video about Bear Cup 2004
It is not very high quality but at least it shows the great weather we
enjoyed there:
http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/happe.kiljunen/bc2004a.mpg
greetings
Harri Kiljunen
Lost Jacket
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
MISSPLACED AT LOST HILLS
SCAT ANNUAL BLACK SATIN JACKET WITH FAA ON LEFT POCKET
IF FOUND CONTACT DON LEATH 661-273-8688
Honda Cub
=========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Could you put this in the newsletter, there is a flyer who is looking
for a Honda Cub. It can be in any shape, running or not. They can
contact me Bob Tymchek at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or phone me at
(805) 929-1605. Thanks
Bob
F1A parts for sale.
===================
Author : Aleksandr Pugachenko This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.;This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Only several parts for F1A models in the special prices from
Alexey Riazantsev - FAI European Champion 2002, F1A,
Yuri Titov - 3-rd prize-winner of World Cup 2003, F1A,
Pankov Sergey - 2-nd prize-winner of FAI World Championship 2003, F1A.
- Complete " Extra Long " and "Long" longerons with pins - 100 $
- Complete "Long", " Extra Long " and "Short" D-boxes;
- Towing hook with plate - 35 $
- Wing Wiggler 2-pos - 16 $
For models with electronic timer M&K:
- Bunt mechanism for e-model - 46$
-Servo holder with wheels - 20$
-accumulators 120 mAh with connector - 20 $
Thanks,
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.;This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Still Crusing
=============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Dear Roger,
Further to what John Barker said about the KielKraft Ajax and Achilles kits:
I believe they may have been the longest continuously running kits ever,
being in production from 1941 until the company was closed down around 3
years ago. Amazingly enough, they managed to stay all balsa throughout the
War, when other British kit manufacturers were resorting to various
"hardwoods" and sometimes even cardboard for wing ribs!
Cheers,
John.
SCAT Annual
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The weather and the competition were both great. A couple records were
set, one by Stan Buddebohm in Helicopter and the other was a new junior
record in F1H by Dallas Parker. Dallas set the record but did not win
the event. He didn't make the extended max in the first round, but did
make the 120 seconds per round required to keep flying for the record.
There were some interesting sides to the event. Guy Menanno did the
"Lizard Dance" during the F1P flyoffs. He said the lizard crawled into
his shorts. Many spectators had there own variations on Guy's theme. The
event ended with Bob Norton's new SUV being stuck in the mud while he
was trying to track down his lost model. Lee said he saw Bob drive by as
we put the SCAT contest stuff back in the "barn" at Holloway's site, so
we assumed he got out.The results are as follows:
F1A
1. Tom Coussens 2040
2. Mati Moskovich 1985
3. Ernest Busnelli 1897
4. Jim Parker 1812
5. Don Zink 1809
6.Martin Cowley 1563
7. Ben Coussens(jr) 1417
8. Rene Limberger 1290
9. Brian Van Nest 1287
10. Pierre Brun 1275
11. Ken Bauer 1272
12. Mike McKeever 1271
13. Risto Puhakka 1255
14. Norm Smith 1227
15. Mike Thompson 1224
16. Peter Brocks 1208
17. Fred Terzian 1204
18. Dallas Parker(j) 1176
19. Lodan Tetrick(jr) 1164
20. Brian Bauer(jr) 1117
21. Peter Allnutt 1045
22. Juan Livotto 1034
23. Kyle Jones(jr) 1008
F1B
1. Bob Tymchek 2100
2. Roger Morrell 2029
3. John Sessums 1619
4. Martin Schroedter 1618
5. Bob Perserchio 1378
6. George Batiuk 1369
7. Blake Jensen 1365
8. Alex Andriukov 1355
9. Mike Mulligan 1347
10. Allen Ulm 1343
11. Dick Wood 1325
12. Phil Scheiman(jr) 1310
13. George Schroedter 1293
14. Jeff Schroedter(jr) 1252
15. Jack Emery 1244
16. Charlie Jones 1200
John Pratt 1057
F1C
1. Roger Simpson 2100
2. Matt Gewain 1949
3. Terry Kerger 1560
4. Dave Shirley 1443
5. Ed Carroll 1380
5. Walt Ghio 1380
7. Mike Roberts 1362
7. Peter Sahlberg 1362
9. Guy Mennano 1308
10. Doug Jovce 1255
11. Ken Happersett 1250
F1P
1. Cody Secor 1380
F1G
1. Jack Emery 1013
2. Martin Schroedter 995
3. John Pratt 975
4. George Schroedter 705
5. Jeff Schroedter(jr) 698
6. Dick Wood 695
7. Roger Morrell 674
8. Peter Brocks 667
9. William Gannon 661
10. Bob VanNest 652
11. Aimee Raymond 613
12. Blake Jensen 610
13. Charlie Jones 567
14. Kim Scheiman(jr) 496
15. Phil Scheiman(jr) 414
Bob Tymchek 148
F1H
1. Ben Coussens(jr) 1922
2. Mike Mckeever 1920
3. Martin Cowley 1437
4. Mike Thompson 1380
5. Brian VanNest 814
6. Norm Smith 654
7. Dallas Parker(jr) 650
8. Bob Norton 487
9. Kyle Jones(jr) 462
F1J
1. Mike Roberts 1440
2. Ed Carroll 1352
3. Fred Ginder 1011
4. Guy Mennano 981
5. Dave Shirley 974
6. Lynn Pulley 920
7. Jeff Ellington 850
HLG
1. Tim Batiuk 424
2. Stan Buddenbohm 388
3. Fred Terzian 335
4. Dick Peterson 140
5. Norm Smith 138
CLG
1. Lee Hines 589
2. Stan Buddenbohm 542
3. Fred Terzian 345
4. Norm Smith 298
5. Tom Smith 248
6. Ralph Ray 217
7. Dick Peterson 171
Nostalgia Wakefield
1. Bob White 1020
2. Tom Laird 780
Thermals,
The CD's Roger Coleman and Lee Hines
Ajax, Achilles, Exeter etc
==========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Off topic but .....
John Barker wrote: "Sorry about not crediting the New Zealand navy with
the 'Achilles', I just
did not know that that was where she came from. I did not mention the
'Exeter' because the 'Ajax' and the 'Achilles' were the two names used
by Keil Kraft for their kits at that time. "
The township I live in - which originally grew from workers' dwellings
around a munitions plant - was named 'Ajax' in commemoration of the
ships at the Battle of the River Plate; we have 'Exeter' and 'Achilles'
roads and the crew members of the vessels have roads named after them.
A couple or so years ago the town hosted a reunion of veterans - who
are officially welcomed individually at any time - and we have an
extensive waterfront memorial which also lists all names, etc.
(including a tribute to Lansdorf, Captain of the Graf Spee) and details
the event.
I moved here in '93 not knowing much about the place then - I wish I'd
first found a house in Achilles Road, Ajax - an address to 'die for' for
a Vintage flyer!
A NEW WORLD CUP EVENT : The Philippe Lepage Criterium
=====================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Mr Morrell,
My name is Frederic Nikitenko and I belong to the "Paris-Air-Modele"
free-flight club. Mike Woodhouse has already told you about Viabon : there
is now a new World Cup Event which is to be organized near Paris (France)
every year, the last week end of february. This year was the first issue.
We had two RUBBER DAYS :
1) The F1B "Criterium Philippe Lepage" on saturday the 28th (counts as a
World Cup Event), coupled with Vintage Wakefield
2) The classical french "Coupe d'Hiver Maurice Bayet" (F1G and Vintage) on
sunday 29th.
The World Cup Event : We have been very lucky with a nice flying field and
a fine weather ! Just one more thing to ask for : we had too a big amount
of top level F1B fliers coming from many countries (Germany, UK,
Netherland, Italy, Turkey, USA, Austria, Swizerland, etc..). And some
others who attempted to come but had to give up because of the snow in the
north of the country.
For instance, Walt Ghio was certainly the one coming from the most distant
place. But, when we look at his results, we think it was worth doing it.
The results can be seen on the club Internet site
(www.paris-air-modele.com).
These three ingredients (field, weather and audience) give us the
opportunity to achieve a nice first issue of this Philippe Lepage
Criterium, dedicated to the memory of a good F1B french flyer (and a
wonderful friend) who left us too early. The mood of the contest was both
relaxed and serious. I think the competitors liked it (though everything
was not perfect).
We hope to see more modelers next year. So, I thank you by advance if you
can say a word of our project on the SCAT news letter.
Frederic
NFFS News
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger,
First of all let me applaude you on the continuning succes of SCAT
Electronic News. I look forward to each edition.
Regarding Andrew Tomasch's suggestions
"2) I've stumbled onto the Flitelines Forum (http://www.flightlines.com/)
which is very broad based. What I notice is that there are specialty
sub-forums already established on Flitelines. In particular, there is a
dedicated Control Line forum there. It might be possible to similarly
establish a Free Flight forum on Flitelines. Since the infrastructure is
already in place, the Free Flight community could have a forum available
with a minimum of effort. This is a wheel that does not have to be
re-invented from scratch."
I'd like to mention that the NFFS web site does have 3 free flight forums:
Nostalgia Gas, Engines and Nostalgia Rubber. If there were interest I'll be
happy to create a new one for FAI focused discussion. Would someone be
interested in moderating, or keeping their eye on such a forum? I think it
would be great.
This is a wheel that goes exist. You can check these out at:
http://www.freeflight.org/community/fora.htm
Alan Petersen
Tow and Toss for F1A, F1B and maybe F1C? - Mekina
===================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Tow and Toss for F1A, F1B and maybe F1C? - Mekina
Hey, what started out to be a brainstorm for HLG, was technically within the
rules, but I must admit a bit on the wild side,
While my original post was serious in pointing out there were also parts of
it that were actually an advanced April fool's joke. For example, I, nor
anyone else that I know of here in Dayton has built a monster sized Tow and Toss
HLG's in secrecy, nor plan to fly them this year in HLG and wipe out all the
competition. I was just "stinging" you all along. Heck, what fun would it be
in "flying a kite" anyways?
But I had a good reason, I was trying to make a point about the current rules.
While we were playing around designing free flight DLG's there seemed to be a
few but growing number of people concerned that large free flight DLG's that
might dominate the once mostly small balsa wood glider event we have come to
know. While some of the concerns I heard were real, and some I even agreed
with, a good majority of them just wanted to limit the event to a small balsa
wood glider event, and I don't agree with doing that what-so-ever. My point w s,
and it still is, the current AMA rules for HLG are very loose, with only a
max weight of 7 pounds 4 ounces. No max wingspans, let alone max dimensions.
So what's the problem? Really there is none. There is a group of people
flying the small gliders we have flown for years, most of them launching them
conventionally in a side arm fashion. And there is an incoming group who will b
e
soon flying larger DLG's. Both are within the current rules.
And yes, it is possible to discus launch a conventional sized glider. I've
tried it, but the launch speeds don't really get going till the model gets
bigger and the radius grows large, then things get whipping! That is what
originally led me to my T&T concept, though I admit, somewhere along the line t
he
need to whip it horizontally then zoom it upwards was dropped.
I had a conversation with a prominent HLG flyer recently at the Max Men while
flying Martyn Cowley's R/C DLG one evening, the large DLG approach is a
completely different kind of model, and perhaps they don't mix with smaller
gliders, especially if flying them from the same pen. By the way, the pen is N
OT
part of the official AMA rules, rather a local thing at some contests. I think
we both agreed this difference in approach and size, might eventually evolve
into a need for two separate events. But we both agreed we are not there yet,
and it must come in due time. Though I am usually not in favor of adding new
events, perhaps there is a place for one here. These large free flight DLG's
once again give us guys with tired old arms a chance to compete in HLG again
and they are fun. Let's not ground rule them out!
But for now they are both within the current AMA rules and until thee rules
are changed, they both are legal and should in my opinion be flown in the same
event at least until the need to separate them becomes clear. And in also in
my opinion, if two events evolve, they should be distinguished only by
wingspan limitations (and / or max dimensions in any direction) and perhaps wei
ght
limitations (for the smaller class). No other restrictions should be put on
them, or on the type of launching, as one might want to discuss launch a standa
rd
class HLG while another might want to launch an unlimited class HLG
conventionally.
If I understand the evolution of the outdoor HLG event correctly there was
once different sizes of gliders, classes A and B, or something of that nature,
years ago? Perhaps it's time to return to that way of thinking?
I have received many emails offline from the SCAT/EN after my original post,
mostly positive, mostly saying something of the nature "I wished I would have
thought about that". Thanks to all of those who wrote me, it's been fun. But
to those of you who did not understand that part of it was a joke, and really
thought I had built a monster sized T&T glider, I apologize. But you
certainly should not believe everything you read on the net or anywhere else fo
r that
matter, and you will note that I said that in my first post as well as
suggesting that the original post might be more appropriately sent in on April
1.
But, the more I thought about it, the Tow and Toss concept could be applied
to any other event that did not have a maximum dimension. That even applies to
some of the indoor events, but we won't go there! Since most events only
limit the areas of the horizontal supporting surfaces (wings and tails) even th
e
area of the lower portion of a tow and toss concept is part of that surface,
it is just a finger rest of sorts, heck, a pretty big one, and a retractable
one at that. But since there is no rules as to the size of finger rests, hey,
why not make the finger rest really long? For example an event that would be
adaptable to the T&T concept to is an event like P-30, which has a maximum
dimension rule of 30 inches in any direction.
Now, let's get really wild. There has been talk about discuss launching a
F1B, even here in the SCAT/EN. I also heard discussions of it at the recent Ma
x
Men and understand some people were even asking some of the top F1B flyers
about it. I understand those discussions led to statements like "a new wing
structure would be necessary". Well, now that I have given this some further
thought and discussing it with others, I offer that a structural redesign might
not be necessary to discus launch a F1B. For example, I think that instead of
discus launching a F1B on the wing tip, one could make simply tie a piece of
string, perhaps to the front and back of the motor tube, where it is
structurally sound, and possibly at the top of the pylon to form sort of a laun
ch
bridle. To that bridle, which is part of the model, one could attach a string
that
would extend to the wing tip, perhaps attached there or even going through a
external lead-out guide. The model could then be whirled in a discus launch
without high loads on the wings. Heck, one could even make the string and
harness retract so it's not hanging in the wind for the glide. And while we ar
e
doing it, why not make it a few inches longer than the wing, and really get the
launch speeds up? You can see where I am going already, if someone would
have done this, no problem, it's within the rules, and probably since that
portion of the model was about the length of the wing, no one would have probab
ly
cared. But the point is, the T&T is an extension of this, perhaps a perversion
of this, but BOTH are technically legal.
Now, let's talk about getting really perverted wild: How about applying the
Tow and Toss concept to F1A, F1B and maybe even F1C?
Now before you ask, or speculate, NO, I'm not doing this, and NO I don't have
them already built and ready for this years flying season, an NO I won't
leave it as another April fools joke. But, seriously, as far as I can tell,
there may be a similar hole in the rules for these FAI event too! Perhaps some
one
might want to build an ultimate flyoff ship using the T&T concept?
Applying the Tow and Toss concept to the FAI events might go something like
this:
F1A - attach the top end of the regulation towline and flag to the bottom
part of the model which also has a flag, with the bottom part of the model bein
g
on the order of 50 -100 meters long? Then tow the model to the regulation
height of 50 meters, and release it, the flags separate, one goes down with the
towline, the other goes up to the upper part of the model. My guess is that
one could obtain heights far greater than the current zoom and bunt design
solutions. What is magic about a 50-100 meters for the lower portion of the model,
nothing!
F1B - tow and release the model with the prop in a feathered condition, when
the retraction mechanism brings the lower part of the flag to the model, the
prop and timers starts! How is that for a heck of a delayed prop start!
Perhaps a 50 - 100 meter line would be practical? Maybe make the lower portion
longer?
F1C - applying the T&T concept to this event might be a bit more difficult,
perhaps impossible, especially if the models are anything like the current
trends are today. But why would they have to be? Perhaps they could be design
ed
more to take advantage of a T&T release, rather than the current design trend
of a rocket powered glider. If done it might go something this: the lower
part of the model might be about 100 - 200 meters long, loosely coiled on the
ground, the model would be started and the upper portion of the model would the
n
helicopter vertically extending the lower portion of the model. This might
be a bit sporty, perhaps like trying to hold back a harpoon on whaling ship
after it is shot. Then at the moment of actual launch, when the end of the low
er
portion of the model is released, the timer and retraction mechanism start.
The engine might run for 5 seconds, but there is really no need to run it
that long as the upper portion might already be 200 meters, so who cares? Woul
d
this be practical? Probably not practical, but technically possible within
the current rules? If the lower portion of the model got tangled during the
positioning of the model for launch, it would give new meaning to the phrase
"line tangle".
Now before we go too far saying this is concept of a model on a string is
perverted, if my memory serves me correct, were not some of the early
international FAI world speed records set with essentially an engine on a pod
being
whirled around on a string, then released to fly through a speed trap? .
But, the point here is we are not in the business of flying kites, nor
whirling them on the end of a sling (no matter how long it its), we fly model
airplanes.
So I challenge all the rules makers (AMA and FAI alike). You are the keepers
of the holy rulebook, the one and only source to which we design our models.
Please let's keep our hobby as one of model airplanes and not turn it into a
kite contest. How about clearing up this loophole in the rules before
someone actually exploits it?
Respectfully,
Joe Mekina
Bill Gibbons, AMA 830
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I am sorry to inform the FF community that Bill passed away in the afternoon
of March 11. His condition weakened quickly over the fast few weeks. His son Greg told me that
his passing was peaceful.
The MMM club and the free flight community has lost a truly magnificent
mountain man. Bill's contributions to the sport
are numerous. His helping hand and friendship has been a positive part
of many of our lives.
The Gibbons family is planning on having his ashes inurned at Ft. Logan
as Bill was a hero
with his 50 missions as a tail gunner in a B24 and later P-51 pilot training.
We will surely miss his stories, infectious laugh, mentoring help,
leadership and competitive drive.
If you wish to send a card to his family, Greg's address is 8447 Pierson
Ct. Arvada, CO 8005
Many thermals N830!
Jerry Murphy
MMM Club
.......................
Roger Morrell
