SEN 782- Feb 26 2003
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News and Reports 2003
SCAT Electronic News 26a February 2003 issue 782
Table of Contents
=================
George Perryman - Rozelle
George Perryman - DeLoach
George Perryman - SweepetteLee
George Perryman - Grogan
George Perryman - ..........
Re: San Valeer annual contest date S/B April12-13 - Thorkildsen
supermax or superlaugh - Zeri
Comments of proposed F1J Rule change - Simpson
Lost Hills
lost and found in alaska - Rocket.
Re: F1P kit - Thorkildsen and VanNest
Selection and Juniors - Segrave
Seelig timer for sale - Kelly
In answer to Biggles message of 2/11. - Jahnke
It doesn't get any better than this - Coussens
George Perryman
===============
From: Walt Rozelle
It is with great remorse that I must report the passing of George Perryman,
one of the stalwart free flighters of all time. George was a member of both
NFFS and AMA Halls of Fame.
George Died this morning (Saturday, Feb. 22) of pulmonary failure, at age
78. He spent an outstanding career with Lockheed as a wind tunnel model
designer.
George was well known in the international free-flight community. He
represented the U.S. on more than one WC team, both in Wakefield and in
Towline Glider (then A-1 Nordic), but his main accomplishments were in
Mulvihill rubber. The Mulvihill Trophy eluded George for a number of years,
during which two of his proteges, Mike Bailey and Jim Lewis, won the
Mulvihill flying George's famed Little Daddy design. But he finally won the
Mulvihill, on several occasions.
George was a close friend and flying comrade for almost 40 years in Atlanta.
We had numerous exciting flying experiences. One that I recall was, just for
the fun of it, having our rubber models high in the air at the precise
moment of a total solar eclipse. He and Tina were frequent dinner companions
for me and Dolores for many a delightful evening.
When I last talked to George, about 10 days ago, he said, "All those years
of breathing balsa dust and dope fumes have finally caught up with me, but I
don't regret one minute of it."
I will miss George deeply. Our free-flight community will miss him, as well.
I will even miss his terrible, corny jokes.
Walt Rozelle
George Perryman
===============
From: "Don DeLoach"
Excellent article on George. Please pass along to anyone I may have missed.
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/obits/0203/24perryman.html
-Don
FW: George Perryman Passes
==========================
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To all Free Flighters,
With great sadness, but with the joyful remembrance of knowing such
a wonderful person, I forward this notice of the passing from this life
of the great George Perryman.
R.I.P., Perfesser...
yr hmbl srvnt,
Lee Hines
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--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
>
> All:
> On Feb. 22, George Perryman passed away due to pulmonary failure.
> Anyone who ever knew him will never forget him. He will be missed greatly.
> He is survived by his wife Tina and two sons Steve and Greg. There will
be a
> memorial service for him on Sunday, March 2 at Tillman Memorial Methodist
> Church in Smyrna, GA. If you would like to send a card or flowers, their
> home address is:
> Tina Perryman
> 3644 Lake Drive
> Smyrna, GA 30082
> (770) 436-6001
> Tina has requested that instead of flowers you can make a contribution to
a
> memorial fund in his name to be given to a charity of their choice.
>
> Harry Grogan
> Electronic Packaging Engineer
> Lockheed Martin - Orlando
> (407) 356-6629
> This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>
>
>
Re: Fw: George Perryman
=======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
On the wings of that Great Speckled Bird...
Sadness, here,
--del
At 08:58 PM 2/24/03 -0600, OTTO H wrote:
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:54 PM
>To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Subject: George Perryman
>
>Hi All,
>
>A sad day indeed. George Perryman passed away from a pulmonary disease.
>We've lost a great competitor and a good friend to modeling.
>
>Thermals,
>
>Gene
Re: San Valeer annual contest date S/B April12-13
=================================================
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Are you getting it off of the web site for NFFS or the
Jan/Feb issue of the digest that had some dates in it.
The Jan feb digest issue used the dates from 2002 in
the digest since that is all Walt Rozelle had at the
time but they were not correct.
The correct date is April 12 and 13th for the San
Valeers annual as shown in Model Aviation. It is also
shown as April the 12 and 13th on the Cuffmac
calendar.
I will send you a flyer and I will check the NFFS web
site to make sure it is correct but I believe it is
and I hope the later issue of the digest corrects
this.
Thermals,
Terry Thorkildsen
--- This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:
> Which weekend is the San Valeers annual? NFFS says
> April 5&6 and Model Aviation says April 12&13.
>
> Thanks, Tim Batiuk
supermax or superlaugh
======================
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Good morning to everybody,
yesterday I had a message from my friend Pim Ruyter, who was just back
from the californian contest, and I heard a very funny story that made
me smile quite a bit (it was very welcome, because I had just broken
some little bone of my foot, so I needed some serious reason to smile).
He told me that flyers in the US, and not only there, are not totally
happy about the so called supermax (this is not surprising, because
already raised on these pages), and that some funny guy blame ME for the
existence of the supermax.
I really find this amusing, probably being part of the many metropolitan
legends circulating around, but I would like to assure the few worried
flyers that I didn't invent, nor have a patent, on the supermax.
The supermax is the result of a vote at the level of CIAM, after
discussion and vote at the level of the subcommittee, and at this vote I
LOST, meaning that the solution I was trying to push didn't get the
majority (it's called democracy, a system in which representatives of
groups or countries present their views and proposals, then each one
express his support or dislike and finally a decision is taken, based on
the number of people who agree).
My proposal, if somebody really could be interested to hear it, was to
have longer flights in some rounds, if and when conditions were
appropriate (yes, just like the supermax), and keep all the time flown
as part of the recognized total time, so a 5 min. flight was 300 sec.,
to be added plainly to the rest.
There have been reasons why the other solution has been accepted by the
majority, I accept them, even if I still like more "my approach" (it was
not only my approach, just it was shared by less people that the actual
supermax).
If the criticism Pim Ruyter reported to me goes more to the basic
concept of having the possibility of longer maxes in selected flights,
then YES, I support completely the idea of having longer maxes in
certain conditions of weather and if the field allows it, only I find a
pity I was not able to convince more people about the approach I
explained above.
I wish to all very long maxes,
Anselmo Zeri
[Yes Anselmo ,... you have reached the same status as the Aligators
under New York !! - A true Urban Legend! ]
Comments of proposed F1J Rule change
===================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger, would you please be kind enough to put this on SECN
In the 11 Feb SEN, issue 779, Dan Tracy asked for comments on the proposed
rule changes to be brought before the CIAM March meeting. What has really
surprised me is that there have been no comments on these rule changes in
SEN since his request for a straw poll among the FAI community.
But what has really caught my attention is the lack of responses on the
proposed change of the F1J motor run from 7 seconds to 5 seconds. And I say
this because of all the input to SEN about the F1P development program going
on here in the USA and the other programs that are going on in other
countries to introduce young flyers to the FAI power events.
Those of us who fly the international power events, world wide, all realize
that there is a decline in participation in these events. Not only is there
little interest in the Junior ranks, but little if any new interest in the
adult flyers. Be they beginners or experienced in Free Flight competition.
And as we grow older and the cost of competition goes up we see the ranks
thinning.
The one bright spot in the power events as far as good participation and new
flyers has been the F1J event. It has rules that allow simple models and
inexpensive motors to be used and because of this, it has been a well
contended event at all levels of competition. Be they local club contests,
the National Championships or the American and World cup events. The event
is typically flown where thermal picking rewards all kinds of models to have
the joy of a max flight and although not all flyoffs are settled by getting
the good air, a lot of them are and this gives an opportunity to win to both
the simple models as well as the complex ones.
The one thing that has allowed both the simple and complex model to compete
on basically even footing is the 7 second motor run. Yes the complex models
with the expensive motors get very high, but the simple models can get up
into good thermal range as well and this is a great equalizer. And even with
the height of the complex models, the 2 minute max does not stretch the
limits of the field so that in its self is not a reason to change.
The F1J event with the 7 second motor run has been a great training grounds
for our Junior flyers. They have been able to compete both here in the USA
and internationally with great results with the simple Maverick kit models.
And as their experience advanced so did their models and their capability to
fly the complex models. But the point being that they were competitive with
the simple models because of the 7 second motor run.
So we have to ask ourselves this. Is the 5 second motor run beneficial to
the overall health of the FAI power events? What is gained by it? Do we
want to handicap the event so that it is not a inviting power event? A not
of interest event, not only to the Juniors but to all the other flyers who
have had a great deal of fun without having to invest a great deal of time
and expense. Do we want it to become as limited in participation as F1C has
become, not only here, but worldwide? A typical entry here at the Seguin
Texas contests is 3 competitors in F1C, but anywhere from 8 to 15 F1J
competitors and this has been typical ever since the F1J event was started.
The American Cup contests (at which we have 2 at Seguin each year) have been
a great series of great competition. When you look at the entries it has
been great competition because of the number of entries and rules that are
inviting. I honestly believe that a change to 5 seconds will greatly reduce
the number of entries and the interest in the event will go away, almost
overnight. Are the complex models in the hands of the most experienced
competitors winning the Cup. Yes, I have seen the best win the Cup, but the
vast majority of the flyers are out there are competing for the fun of the
days flying, and not the year long competition. I would have to ask the
question of how much fun the competition going to be for the entire FAI
power community if only the complex models show up and how much fun is it to
fly or drive halfway across the USA to compete against 1 other competitor.
And if there is no interest to fly then who is going to stick around to do
the timing. These are serious questions that we all need to answer.
There have been some great ideas put forth over the last few months on what
to do to up the participation in FAI power events. How to attract new
competitors (of all age) and how to have simpler events for them to start
with. I believe that reducing the motor run will hurt the event for all of
us. Then where will the beginners start?
To Jim Parker and the SCAT club I say this. You are doing a great job of
promoting the F1P event in the hopes not only fielding a full team for the
USA next year but for years to come, BUT you have not spoken out on this
proposed rule change. WHY?
To the FAI community worldwide I ask the same question. Someone is proposing
to change the F1J rules. WHY? Is not maintaining a good healthy power
community worldwide more important that someone watching the models get high
and saying, GEE that's awfully high maybe we ought to change the rules. I
think we really need to really evaluate the overall impact of changes on the
future of model flying before we do something that may seem like a good idea
now but in reality will do so much damage down the road that the sport dies
out from lack of participation.
Just some thoughts Guys.
Reid Simpson
Lost Hills
=========
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Hello SCAT:
George suggested I contact you for results of F1C at Lost Hills last
weekend.
Regards,
Robert Rayzak
lost and found in alaska
========================
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Sr. Scat
This afternoon I was out running around on the tundra with my girlfriend
her dog and my bunt-bone (Vasi's) trying to make my self feel better for
not being able to attend the Icicson or Max men contest down south.
It was unbelievable with the snow caped mountains in the distance small
ice covered lakes dotting the serounding tundra. After a couple warm
up flights I towed into a jagged bit of up going air. I brought her
around and zoom up she goes for a short 60 second flight. As the wind
direction was going good for retrieval, think icy lakes and small stands
of alders not to mention a unfrozen river parallel to the wind
direction. So I set the timer for 180 seconds and then ask my sweety
to check it with her stop watch; as we walk back up wind to the launch
point. A little drizzle/snow starts to fall and the breeze picks up a
bit, gal friend makes a number of comments about gusts and such but I am
undeterred-after all it was not even close to the limit-I think. Any
ways I wait and just pick from the ground, a nice burbelly lull goes
buy, I give the signal, up and off. Nice launch, good air! I hand
reel and line to gal friend-OK, her name is CarolAnn- and ask her to
just bring it with as I jog down wind to the next ridge about 200 yard
away. Well the bunt bone is not going up but she is not coming down
ether; big circles, then a couple bounces and she tightens up just like
she should. I ask CarolAnn to go back to the jeep and drive down the
road to meet me where the glider will land-I think. At this point I can
only see as the glider goes across each circle, first to the right and
next to the left, then right, left, right-then out of sight at about 170
seconds. Rather then jog across another mile of slightly frozen tundra
I angle over towards the road and as I get there I notice two cars that
appear to be stopped about a mile down wind-Hmmm. I see one keep on
toward me but the other one slightly reddish is still stopped-Hmmm. Ok
no problem I have my current ama insurance Hmmm. I then see some
thing, a person or dog or whatever, about 200 yards from the car and
going towards it Hmmm. I start to run a little faster but I am still
about a half mile away-but CarolAnn saves the day as up she races in our
trusty old right hand drive postal jeep, after a quick ethnic fire drill
I race after the red car but the old jeep cant catch the (obvious)
thieves Sh... Hmmm. I stop our newbie cop and flag him down, we are
talking wet behind the ears-un tried, but as we shall see later, true.
He says to me he passed stopped red car in question and also wondered
what I was doing out in the tundra with a pair of binocs (poaching ?).
So I drive over heated jeep back to field, jeep catches on fire, stop to
look under hood, get back in, drive real fast, get on cell phone, call
CarolAnn, ask for fire suppression apon landing, get behind slow moving
police car, jeep begins to smoke, police car pulls into driveway, jeep
swerves around cop car, girl sprays jeep, cop has glider, jeep stops
smoking. girl is good, glider is grand, cop is tested under fire
Hmmm ?
Re: F1P kit
===========
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Hi Bob,
I appreciate the effort that you guys are going to. I
look forward to getting a copy of the plans. I am
sure that Craig Cusick did a great job on them.
The carbon fiber sheet for the dihedral breaks that I
recommend for the 404 would be the same thickness I
used on the 600 and the 1/2A and that would be .007
sheet. The thinner sheets are too hard to work with
as far as I am concerned and for the little amount
that is used the .007 works great.
For covering I typically use micafilm and with the
structure it holds up fine, and is great for punture
resistance. It's drawback is that it doesn't offer
much torsional rigidity like some of the other
coverings do. I usually use red with yellow trim
panels. The clear micafilm is easier to apply and
lighter but is not as thick as the transparent colors.
Do not use the orange since the older orange colors
bleed around fuel, or hot stuff.
The trick with the micafilm is to apply it tight since
it has no backup adhesive. I use a light mist of 3M77
on the leading and trailing edges and the dihedral
breaks. I brush on balsarite on the spars and ribs.
You can then tack it down (because of the 3M77 contact
adhesive) and pull it tighter to start with. The
edges or overlap joints are sealed with thin hotstuff.
When overlapping the micafilm over itself at the
dihedral breaks I use thick hot stuff.
If all that sounds like to much work then polyspan,
double tissue could be used and would work just fine.
The stab should only require single tissue or
polyspan.
You could even use silk or silkspan on the wing but I
don't think it is necessary for strength.
You could use monocote but I think it is a little
heavy for that size of model.
There may be other more modern coverings available
that would work fine like litespan or something but I
have no experience with them.
For the fuselage and rudder I use a coat of nitrate
with talcon followed by a couple of coats of tinted
nitrate. The fuel proofer I add over that is K&B
super epoxy or hobby poxy but I realize these are hard
to come by now due to OSHA and such in California.
I imagine aerogloss or Randolf's dope or the new dope
that tom Dixon sells that the U/C guys use would all
work but they won't stand up to the high nitro that I
use in my AMA stuff but at lower nitro levels they
should work just fine.
If you put tissue over the fuselage before you start
applying the dope it will fill quicker and can give
you the colors you want but is a lot of work and I
don't do it and go with the nitrate and super poxy
finish only. Guys like DeShields use the tissue on
the wood surfaces though but it is too time consuming
for the pluggers like me.
I hope you don't mind but I copied some folks that I
thought might be interested in the above info.
Hope this helps!
Thermals,
Terry Thorkildsen
--- This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:
> Hi Terry, This is Bob Van Nest. I am working with
> Jim Parker & Craig Cusick
> &
> SCAT Club on Astrostar 404 for F1P. I mailed you a
> blue print today. I am
> working
> with Jim O'Reilly & Bob Holman for ribs. I should
> have the ribs late next
> week. I was
> wondering what thickness carbon fiber you use for
> reinforcement at wing
> joints and
> what do you recomend for covering and finish?
> Thanks Bob
>
Selection and Juniors
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Could someone ask Alex Andruikov to outline how the Russian(before) and
current international teams are selected, please? How many individuals are
involved in each class, for example. And any help which might be given to
indiviiduals to attend the final selection contest. Perhaps Eugene Verbitsky
could do this in addition.
As regards the young potential modellers, how are (or were) these youngsters
exposed to F/F modelling in Russia? Was there a program through the schools
and the young Commumist league? Or what? This might give us some input to
organising parallel systems, for the success of the USSR teams in
international contests over the years must have depended on a continuing
influx of new people.
On the French side, the majority of those who have brought through new and
young modellers are teachers in the SCHOOLS. Does that not tell you
something? These teachers have been modellers themselves (and still are) so
have been able to devise methods to reach the latent modellers in their
classes. QED. Perhaps one of them, or more, can outline how they went about
it?
In anticipation
Mike S
Seelig timer for sale
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Dear Roger; I read in a recent SEN news letter that Seelig timers are no =
longer available. I have a mid seventies vintage Seelig 4 function timer =
which I have never used and would like to sell. It has been stored in =
the plastic bag in a dry place for all these years and runs well. The =
serial number on the front plate is: 1937386. Could you place this =
notice in a SEN or should I advertise it in the NFFS digest? I am open =
to offers for it. I am located in Southern California. Thank you, Paul =
Kelly
In answer to Biggles message of 2/11.
=====================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Yes other organizations (Scouts, schools etc.) are good for one-on-one
exposure, and this type of contact with the sport is a necessary step. I
got my biggest push from a 4-H aerospace program. What we also need is also
superficial marketing of free flight. One that simply makes people visually
aware of the sport. An ad for a Toyota Highlander with the gate open and a
guy launching an F1B in the background. Articles about John Lorbeicki and
the Avallone boys in Teen People Magazine. Enlisting the participation of a
popular musician or celeb. I teach art and understand the power of a visual
image. Even an image that only alludes to an idea is powerful (sometimes
more powerful than direct communication). How about Randy Archer in a Got
Milk? ad? Got fuel...Got milk! Seeing the sport featured in the context of
popular culture will generate curiosity and acceptance. Because we have
been underground since WWII, f/f will look shockingly new. Of course one
must consider the affect on these kids when they get to the field and see
fifty old white guys in oily jumpsuites.
I think NFFS, AMA, and FAI need to think about a public campaign of some
sort. Surely there are also some well connected sorts who could secure
pro-bono services from an ad firm or marketing firm. Meanwhile the rest of
us need to think about updating the wardrobe and applying liberal amounts of
Grecian Formula (or in my case Rogain).
By the way, I'm teaching a unit on measuring for my son's first grade class
using free flight models. We will measure size (wing span), weight (oz.),
and time (seconds). Everything helps.
Stirring trouble,
Ross
It doesn't get any better than this
===================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hello again all you faithful readers. First of all I would just like to
say that I was pleasantly supprised by the amount of people that
appreciated my article the last time I wrote. We all just flew in the
maxmen, and how much better can it get than that? What can be better
than flying 14 rounds of Freeflight in the midst of all types of weather
changes. I can't stress to all flyers to enjoy these times when we still
have access to such a wonderful place as Lost Hills. Even though I
didn't fly that great I can tell you that there is nothing I would rather
be doing than toeing my buntbone underneath that beautiful blue sky. I
was pleasantly supprised to see all the foreign flyers out there along
side all of us Americans. It seemed that Freeflight had takeng a steep
drop in popularity. Thankfully from the turnouts I have seen thus far
this year everyone is back out there again. We must remember that we
flyers are what keep this incredible sport alive, I would hate to see it
slowly desintiagrate.Every time after flying a contest I come to the same
conclusion and that is that it just doesn't get any better than this.
Fly MAX win
Ben Coussens
...............
Roger Morrell
