SEN 828- Sept 24 2003
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News and Reports 2003
SCAT Electronic News 24 September 2003 issue 828
Table of Contents
=================
Livotto / FAI Invivational Schedule change
F1C's for sale - Cuthbert
Power Results at The Junior European Champs - Lorbiecki and Seren
Swedish F1A Site - Binns
Garmin GPS & PDA combo - Davis
true confessions of a wannabe airfoil Guru - Skyieng
Dynasty Cup and Rocky Mt. FF Champs - Murphy
Relationships - Segrave
Re: Tomy type timers - Woodhouse
Ornithopter Design - Bowman
Livotto / FAI Invivational Schedule change
==========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Dear Roger
I was contacted by a family member of Sal Fruciano requesting if I could
make some time on my contest on Saturday October 11th. to pay their
respects and fulfill Sal's wishes of spreading his ashes at Lost Hills.
I decided to have an hour time right after the 4th round, at 12:00
o'clock till 13:00 hours and the contest will resume with the 5th. round
at 13:00 hours.
So I will appreciate if you could post this in the SEN so everyone will
be aware of the schedule.
Feel free to word it as you wish.
Regards
Juan
F1C's for sale
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger,
I would be greatful if you could include the following
statement in SCAT NEWS.
I have decided to stop flying F1C. The reasons are many and various but
mainly the spark has gone for me. I have for sale two Hummer Geared
F1C's both with Verbitsky wings and tailplanes. These are world class
models that I have used to good effect in the last two years. Last used
at British Stonehenge Cup on 20/9/03 to win flyoff with time of 490
secs. The price is pounds sterling 900 ($1400) each.
I will also make the geared propellers that I have used, price
$60. Please contact JOHN CUTHBERT on e-mail .
I hope to still see you all as I intend to fly F1A again.
Power Results at The Junior European Champs
===========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi John,
ok, we will use your new email-adress!
Also Concratulations to John!!! I have read about the succesfull team-build
ing in the scat-news and so we are very glad to know, that we will meet us
in france again!
Some information to the European Champs:
Ther were 4 teams in F1J/P
Ukraine (3 Competitors)
Russia (4 Competitors)
Poland (4 Competitors)
Germany (3 Competitors)
1. Winner was Tomasz Wludarczyk / POL with "standard"-F1J-modell
2. was Adam Strycharski / POL with a F1P-design !
3. Mykhaylo / RUS with F1J
I countent 6 different F1P-models, the wing-geometry was simular to our con
struction (okay, okay, ther a not a lot of possibilities for innovation :-)
), but the main difference was the tailplan in distance and size.
The modell from Adam has D-box-wings, and a long fuselage/big tailplane. The
most pilots (F1J inclusive) used cyclon-engines.
The performance of Adams model was quite good: climbing in a spiral, one ci
rcle ended with motorstop.
Compared with F1J, the F1P got easyer more height.
I think, F1P will work in general, -only we have to modify our construction
! I think, it would be also necessary to modify your construction! we will
ingrease the tailplane area with the factor 1.5 .
After the end of our contest-saison in november, we will build new wings wi
th the same geometry and airfoil: Our gliding was outstanding good! The con
struction will be also changed into D-box-Carbon: After a tree-landing at t
he training and a night in wet condition, we had to correct the whole wing-
section with iron: Our carbon-tube-construction is not hard enough.
see you
Paul
"John Lorbiecki" schrieb:
> Hi Paul and John...
>
>
> How many F1P models were there and what was their performance as compared
to the F1J models? We are rebuilding the old F1P model and building a new
one, which will be all carbon construction. We have the two center panels c
ompleted as well as the tip D boxes made. They are much stronger than the o
ld model.
>
> John ended up number #1 on the team, but Austin still is the one to beat.
He is by far the best in the US if not the world. His program is very soli
d and he is such a good kid. We are still debating on whether to fly F1J or
F1P. Probably won't know until next year, as winter is slowly but surely a
pproaching.
>
> So, say hello and congratulations to John. I am looking forward to seeing
you in France this year. Talk with you soon!!!
>
> John and John
>
Swedish F1A Site
=================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Don't know if this good stuff for the SCAT Electronic News or not, but as a
recent entry into F1A after 30 years plus in R/C, I came across the MFK
Gladiatorerna website. It has what seemed to me as a wealth of info for
beginners in the hobby/sport. Does anyone have a translation of this or is
there a good english primer on F1A nordics? Many thanks.
Kirk Binns
Garmin GPS & PDA combo
======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger,
One of my customers bought the new Garmin unit that has a palm
interface. I beamed my black magic software to their unit but when they
tried to open the app it crashed the Garmin. The garmin is running palm
software 5.2.1 and my Tungsten is running palm 5.1. Just thought you
might want to know about it. From the looks and size of the new Garmin
I think it will be the tech toy of choice for those of us flying
electronic models. Do you know if the Garmin can be made to work with
Black Magic and if the serial cable issue can be worked out?
Jon Davis
[John
I do not know if the garmin unit will work.
Does it have a serial as distinct from USB interface ?
Also what is the screen density in Pixels -
the BlackMagic software will work with 160x160
and I have not tried it with any of the 320z320 Palms.
I do have new version of the software to support the
upcoming timer with 3 and 4 servos. This works a little better
with the Tungsten than the version you have. ]
true confessions of a wannabe airfoil Guru
===========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
John Lorbiecki mentioned that he was planning on using a "Gieskieng" airfoil
for a new F1P. That side remark got me a few email inquiries. Actually the
two airfoil examples that I scanned and sent John were lifted from
Profili2's library's collection of AG foils by Mark Drela. I assume they are
meant for DLGs.
The thought with designing a Puppy is that with the low aspect ratio and
light wing loading a high CL is not really called for largely because the
induced drag would be quite high. This may be faulty thinking, but it sure
makes for a sensational climb! Long-spanned F1J is another story however.
Tony Robertson (Utah) did some flight simulation that showed that a highly
cambered section would come out surprisingly far ahead in duration even
though it gave up fifty feet or so in the climb. Perhaps there is some way
of combining the best features of a blazing climb and a Nordic-like glide.
I would like to put in a plug for the remarkable Profili2 program...(just do
a Google search for it.) Really a lot of fun playing with airfoils trying to
do little things in order to crank out more performance. However, it takes
some understanding and experience of the booby traps inherent in the works
to maneuver around safely. I got shot in the butt quite a few times before
I realized there were loose cannons lurking and ready to cut loose. This
sophisticated program has more features than a multiplex theatre and I'm
still discovering new things about it.
But a warning: Don't mess with the addictive design aspect unless you are
well disciplined (I couldn't tear myself away from the damn computer for
two months.)
Skyfoiler
Dynasty Cup and Rocky Mt. FF Champs
====================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
38th Annual Rocky MT. FF Champs & Dynasty Cup
Don DeLoach and Jerry Murphy CDs
The 38th annual running of Colorado's major FF contest is now in the history bo
oks with
25 people pay their money and take a crack at winning one of the many awards.
The addition of the Dynasty Cup to the mix proved to be a big positive as it dr
ew competitors from as far away as Michigan. It is sad to report that local su
pport was not as strong as it could have been. There were several active local
flyers that did not enter and fly in this year's contest. I sure would like t
o know why these folks decided not to take part so we might make some changes t
o the format to enhance next year's event.
We had mixed results on the addition of SAM events to the menu. The rubber and
glider events were popular, but the power events drew only entry and no flyers.
Saturday's weather was about as good as it gets with an overcast sky. Temperat
ures were in the high 60s to low 70s with light winds. The story wasn't so goo
d on Sunday as we had light rain for a couple of hours around Noon. The condit
ions improved and by the time the meet was over we had perfect conditions. The
conditions were so good several flyers stayed on the field until almost dark.
We stopped flying at Noon on Saturday for a short memorial for our two club mem
bers who passed away in August, Ed Carsten and Ed Smull. We expended the memor
ial to include the other MMM members we have lost over the years. After three
minutes of silence where those on the field could reflect on those we have lost
, the contest resumed.
Saturday concluded with a cook out. Chief Jackson Ivy manned the grill and his
Jalapeno Burgers were a big hit. Art's "world famous beans" proved to be a pe
rfect fit for these great burgers. Desert was birthday cake decorated by Sue E
therington for Willard Smitz's 82nd birthday. Willard's celebration centered o
n his maxs while flying F1A in the Dynasty Cup. Congratulations Willard!
Enough of this fluff, here are the results. Thanks to everybody who came out a
nd flew and a special thanks to all of those who helped make this meet so good.
Those who missed this great meet, hope you can fly in next year's 39th contes
t.
Dynasty Cup
F1A
Flyer 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Total
Michael Avalonne 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 1260
Pete McQuade 180 153 181 180 180 180 128 1181
Don Deloach 122 180 180 143 180 165 74 1044
Willard Smitz 140 106 82 180 0 180 91 779
F1B
Flyer 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Total
Ed Wiley 180 180 180 180 180 158 180 1238
Dick Wood 180 180 98 180 180 180 180 1178
Darold Jones 102 180 180 153 180 180 180 1155
Eddie Avallone 180 153 180 180 180 180 79 1132
Roger Maves 176 153 180 180 180 167 180 1116
Anthony Avallone129 - - - - - - 129
F1C
Flyer 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Total
Chuck Etherington 0 0 180 180 180 135 180 855
Fred Carstens - - - - - - - 0
F1G
Flyer 1 2 3 4 5 Total
Don DeLoach 120 120 120 120 78 578
Dick Wood 120 120 77 120 78 506
Ed Wiley 120 96 120 95 75 506
Jerry Murphy 95 88 60 75 0 318
Darold Jones -- - - - - -
F1H
Flyer 1 2 3 4 5 Total
Willard Smitz 23 23
Don DeLoach
F1J
Flyer 1 2 3 4 5 Total
Fred Carstens 120 120 120 120 115 595
Bill Lovins 0 0 0 0 41 41
Dave Wineland 0 0 0 0 3 3
Don DeLoach
As you can see the FAI events were well flown and it sure looks like the Dynast
y Cup
has found a new home in the Rocky MT. FF Champs for the future.
Thanks to all of those who helped make this meet such a great success. Special
thanks to Art Hills
for his work with the hunt club in getting the gates installed in the new fence.
Jerry Murphy
MMM Club
www.themmmclub.com
Relationships
=============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Is there or does anyone know if there is a simple method of evaluating
airfoils by adding together the mean camber and the profile thickness? For
example, take the NACA 6409 and Clark Y. The first is 6 + 9 = 15 and the
second 11.7 + 3.7 =15.4. But they are quite different in their
performanceand characteristics.So let us try two somewhat similar foils the
6409 and B8353b. Again the first 6+9 = 15 while the latter is 8+3 = 11. So
to make the former lift the same as the latter, do we take a percentage of
the thickness and add it to the camber? Such as 55%?
You may be wondering where all this is leading and what use it is. Well. we
have often wondered what airfoil would different characteristics in flight
while allowing the same decalage settings, haven't we? This is a request for
info. Yes I know that the lifting ability of the foil is reckoned to depend
on the camber, its height and max 's distance from the LE. But what effect
does the profile thickness have, that's the real question, mes amis.
Regards
Mike S
Re: Tomy type timers
===================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
check mty site out - the timers page for a full range of tomy timers.
Michael J Woodhouse, Norwich, UK.
Free Flight Supplies has secure internet credit card facilities.
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on 17/9/03 14:31, SCAT user at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:
> Timers
> ======
> Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>
>
>
> Hi,
> am looking for any data on "tomy" or "snoopy" timers. Saw an article
> from Holland(?) and this address is the only one I can see on the web
> page. If you are not the correct person perhaps you can pass on my
> message.
> Regards
> Les Esquilant
Ornithopter Design
==================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
University. I have a group or 6 students who have the goal to design,
build, and fly the smallest possible radio controled ornithopter. We
are looking for written information about ornithopter design methods.
Can anyone help us out? Much of the literature we have found is not
very practical considering our current level of understanding. I read
in Lew Gitlow's book, "Indoor Flying Models" that Frank Kieser developed
mathematical relationships required to perfect his record-setting
designes. Does anyone know what these relationships were or how I could
learn more about them?
Who are the best ornithoper designers flying today?
Is there an event we could attend to meet this community and watch them
in action?
W. Jerry Bowman
(801) 422-4316
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
..............
Roger Morrell
