SEN 829- Oct 3 2003
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News and Reports 2003
SCAT Electronic News 3 October 2003 issue 829
Table of Contents
=================
Ben Coussens, Lee Hines, Arno Hacken, the Johns Lorbiecki and ....
Sierra Cup - McKeever
Question - Katyba
Barr's Model - Wagner
F1P - Kerr
FW: SW Challenge info - Hines et al
No Sweat at the HOT 2003 USFFC - SweepetteLee
SEN - Risto
Vol Libre editing- schandel
Autumn Cup Announcement - Simpson
SAFETY ISSUE - McB
canarsie canary plan
TomyTimers
Segrave's search for mystical airfoil numerology - SkyKeing
Re: Airfoils - H
Dynasty Cup scores. - Murphy
Thanks
Ben Coussens, Lee Hines, Arno Hacken, the Johns Lorbiecki and
=============================================================
even Sky Kieng and Mike S to say nothing of EoB
=================================================
I get nice e-mails like the one from Risto in this issue thanking them for SEN.
The people who deserve the credit are those that contribute material. This is a
reminder that contest announcements, results and product information is always
welcome. It is considered 'correct' that when someone asks for advice you reply
to SEN as well as directly to that person, this is because there are probably
many other who would benefit from your words of wisdom.
The reason why I listed those people on the title line was because they
contribute to SEN .. and contribute more that contest announcements,... etc.
They write about their own personal experiences and give their particular slant
on events. Picking on Ben for a moment, as everyone else seems to have, I
think it's great that a young sportsman writes about some of the things that
concern him and some of the things that motivate him. Ask any parent or school
teacher, it's very difficult to get a young man in his mid teens to write about
anything and here is one writing about Free Flight ! Sure he may have upset som e
people, but I think it better to ruffle a few feathers that to shut up and not
say anything. We pontificate about the 'junior problem' and what to do about,
here we have Ben and John Lorbiecki writing about things from a junior point of
view, what more can you ask for in terms of feed back? Keep it up guys and Ben
,
it is not necessary to address me as Mr Morrell, Roger is just fine.
Sweepette Lee and Arno write about events from their perspective, that's great
too we do not always want to hear about it from the organizer's point of view so
that provides us with a balanced report. We need to look at our events as other
see them. That's why I like reading Tiffaney O'Dell's reports in the FF Digest
and AMA publication. She is a regular journalist who as spent many years as a
sports journalist and covers FF like a sporting event, including interesting
little pieces of information that really add to the story.
Finally I'm not sure if Edge of Beyond is out in left field with or without
Mike, Sky Keing ,...and those "other" guys. But if you are not pushing envelope
and sharing that we are not making progress. Sometimes those ideas are so cra y
that they might just work, like the Electronic timer for F1G, discus launch F1B
or the folding wing F1C .. you never know.
Sierra Cup
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Some questions and answers about the Sierra Cup 2003
Where to stay, here are some choices in the area:
Crossland Economy Studios/Rancho Cordova 1(877) 276-7752
Inns of America/Rancho Cordova 1(800) 826-0778
Best Western Heritage Inn/Rancho Cordova 1(800)641-1076
Hallmark Suites/Rancho Cordova 1(800) 444-1089
What's new?
Make sure you put a team together for both Mini and Maxi events, a glider,
rubber, and power flyer on each team. Winners get perpetual trophy for high
time for all three flyers on the team, including flyoffs.
Remember, it's The Livotto, followed by the Sierra Petite on Wednesday and
Thursday, and concluding with the Sierra Cup (An Endless Week in our Endless
October flying season).
Any Questions, call me at (916) 967-8475 or send E-mail to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
See you there! Mike McKeever
Question
=========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi!
I ask to prompt the e-mail address Mr. Fuzeev
Sergey Katyba
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Barr's Model
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger, Amanda Barr's model was a straight locked up Maverick with an AME
.06. Engine was a loan from Austin and Craig Gunder and turns 28,400 on 35
%. I helped Amanda put this airplane together and test fly it at our
field here in MD. The model was built very light and I have to say I was
pleased with the
way it jump starts. The story is Amanda caught the back of her pony tail on
the fly-off flight and that's why the model did not attain proper altitude. We
are now in discussions about a proper haircut or cap; we have all done this
same thing at one time or another. Joe Wagner
[Actually Joe I catch mine on my hat ]
F1P
===
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
My question is pertaining to the MAX time in F1J and F1P. If F1J is a 7
second engine run for a two minute max, what is the engine run and max
time for F1P flown at a contest designated F1J/ F1 P.
I would like to have an answer from the person who is the official on
this subject. I think it may be Jim Parker. Tom Kerr
FW: SW Challenge info
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
For all SENers, including Peter,
The score for round 8 on Sunday morn[the 10 minute max round] will be added to
the other round scores.
As is proper, the conditions that AM will dictate the final decision, so check
with control desk beforehand.
I hope a large group of fliers will come to the Southwest FAI Challenge, Nov 1
& 2, @ El Dorado Dry Lake, Nevada. [end of promo]
yr hmbl srvnt,
Lee
--- Lee Hines
--- This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Brocks
To: Lee Hines
Sent: 9/29/03 12:52:01 PM
Subject: SW Challenge
Hi Lee,
I hope that you are doing well. Brigitte and I are back from Europe. We had a g
reat time, especially at the F1E World Champs and some other adventures in Roma
nia.
I have a question in regard to the Las Vegas contest. The extended 10 min. max
is this a tiebreaker Supermax or does the whole flown time go into the result?
Please let me and others (SEN) know.
I hope to see you at the Livotto,
Peter
No Sweat at the HOT 2003 USFFC
==============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hello fellow SENers,
Just back from Lost Hills and the 2003 version of the USFFC, where the
weather was good, and as forecast, 100+ mid-PM. This required much liquid
to stay hydrated.
Lots of good flying was observed and on a personal note, this writer
FINALLY maxed out in a 2003 America's Cup event, even taking 3rd in the F1A
FO.
But the story in the event was the fine flying by Rene Limberger to win F1A
in the 9 Min FO round. He got the best air, relegating our Prez and current
points leader in F1A, Jim Parker to 2nd place.
In other USFFC glider news, Tim Batiuk continues his domination of HLG
and CLG with wins in both, & needed to make 8+ maxes to do so as Stan
Buddenbohm and I were nipping at his heels.
We left Sunday before the Mini events FOs were completed, so others will
need to sent in those results.
Our clubmate, Guy Menanno was on marathon record runs for the C & D AMA
records!
He was in constant motion: fuel up his big, black 800 bird, fly, chase,
retrieve, fuel up, etc, etc.
As he stopped for a breath he told me he had done 23+ maxes in C on Sat,
then he popped in his D motor and put up 23+ maxes on Sun by the time we
left.
As I understand, these would beat the existing records.
He may have kept maxed til sundown for all I know!
My thanks go to Rene for his patience as timekeeper in the HLG/CLG pen,
as well as the Kellers for running a fine USFFC.
Ciao,
Leeper, the Scribe
SCAT Electronic News
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
I must tell you that SEN has been particular delight for me during last
couple of weeks. I have been in Japan on business and days have
been filled with customers, boring corporate e-mails, turf battles,
resource constrained projects, overly optimistic sales projections and
other crab that running a business can bring. Then suddenly there
is a SEN in my inbox telling all these good stories about free flight and
contests. So I have to tell you and thank you for the create
service you are doing for our sport and all of us who enjoy it.
Sometimes we all just come to expect it regularly forgetting your
tremendous contributions for keeping SEN going.
Regards,
Risto
Vol Libre editing
=================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
VOL LIBRE Edition 151 vient de paraetre , a ete expedie le
24 septembre 2003 _ A. Schandel- 16 chemin de beulenwoerth -
67 000 Strasbougr Robertsau France
Autumn Cup Announcement
=======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Roger, please post on SEN.
>
> Thanks, Reid
>
> Everyone is invited to the 19th Annual Autumn Cup, the second weekend of
> November.
>
> EVENT 19th Annual Autumn Cup (An American Cup Contest)
>
> DATE November 8 - 9, 2003
>
> PLACE Seguin Texas, USAF Auxiliary Field (Gate opens at 7:00 AM)
> Located on US 90 Alternate, approx. 1.5 miles east of Hwy
> 123 bypass
>
> SPONSOR Tri-City Flyers MAC 830
>
> CONTEST DIRECTOR Reid Simpson (903) 677-8525
> 115 Trailridge Dr.
> Athens, TX 75751
> E-mail (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
>
> EVENTS (Saturday)
> F1A, F1B, F1C, Open Gas*, 7 one hour rounds, start
> - 9:00 AM
> (No Super Max)
> P-30, not flown by rounds
> (*Unlimited to area, weight, displacement and fuel.
> F1C flight rules)
>
> EVENTS (Sunday)
> F1G, F1H, F1J, F1P, 5 one hour rounds, start 8:00
> AM
> NFFS Special event, (Starduster-X)
>
> SOCIAL TIME A social time will be held at the El Ranchito Restaurant at
> 7:30 Saturday evening.
>
> AWARDS PRESENTATION
> The awards for the Saturday events will be presented
> at the social time if the events are finished, or else at the end of the
> contest Sunday.
>
> ENTRY FEES Open entries - 1 event $15.00, 2 or more $20.00
> Sr. entries 1 event $ 7.00, 2 or more $10.00
> Jr. entries no charge
>
SAFETY ISSUE
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hello
Just a note about sanding finishes and composites from eastern Europe
(Ukraine).
While rebuilding the pylon and cowl on the front end of my Reductor I
did a lot of sanding and grinding (dust making)without a particle mask
(can you say, Stupid Ron?)
I got very sick... the next day my sinuses were inflamed and were very
sore and burning, also I had a Very nasty taste in the back of my
throat...This lasted almost two days...
This is not to say that those finishes are "bad" Or that everybody who
sands or grinds this stuff will get sick.What this IS to say is: USE a
particle mask. Please....Some of those finishes ARE toxic when sanded
and inhaled Be healthy! Have fun!
Ron "We don't need no stinking particle mask" McBurnett
canarsie canary plan
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi:
Is it possible for you to email me a copy of the
Marty Taft - Don Ross Plan for the old Canarsie
Canary balsa stick-model 12" WS?
Sincerely,
george
TOMMY TIMERS
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
try this adress:
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
HERNAN ALARCON
Segrave's search for mystical airfoil numerology
================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi, Mike.
Offhand I can see no relationship in the mere sum of the profile thickness
and camber between two given airfoils. In the case of the Benedek 8353and
the NACA four digit foil that you used as an example the quantities of
camber and thickness are even reversed --- and that makes for a hell of a
lot of difference in their respective qualities! The 8353 has little
resemblance to the NACA 6409. The Benedek 8406 is a closer match. However, a
hypothetical BE 6408 would not.
If you are merely interested in slapping on a different wing without
changing the longitudinal dihedral then perhaps the governing factor would
be matching up the Zero Lift Angle on the two foils. But even then the lift
slope would probably not match up perfectly.
Mike, I think you need to employ the sophisticated services of Profili 2!
Among the interesting modification features is one that you can use to
combine two airfoils into a blended version. Another program enables one to
change the mean camber and vary the high point along the chord, also you
can change the thickness by moving the top and bottom surfaces separately
up or down -- or whatever! And of special aid for your flying wing
application you can do the Cp characteristics.
Another section that I find most useful is to combine the top of one
airfoil with the bottom of another. This is great for me since I can create
a good gliding section then mirror it with itself to form a "folded"
symmetrical section to check out climb Cd at zero angle. The results can
be real eye-openers sending me trudging back back to the old "drawing board"
At another place one can alter the nose radius...and even do flaps! And
yeah, I've gotten suckered into planning a folder/flapper combo...as if I'm
not already over my head with simple folders.
I should confess there are applications with Profili2 that I'm not smart
enough to figure out.
As I mentioned in the previous SCAT the program can be addictive ... almost
as exciting as taking a new design out for test flying because you can run
the profile through the various angles of attack for glide and climb and
get different Rn readouts for conditions encountered. But instead of taking
days or weeks to build an experimental wing you can get to the bottom line
in double-quick time.
It does have limitations. Experts tell me that the field of Low Rn is a
mathematical no-man's land and as such results can be squirrelly at times.
There are anomalies such as sharp edges and Gurney flaps that it doesn't
like and can't handle.. But even if figures are not to be taken as gospel it
is still an incredibly valuable tool for the few curious types who still
design and build models.
You can explore the basic program for free...However, a nominal ten bucks
gets you the full Monty with all the bells and whistles. Its gotta be one of
the most sensational aeromodeler bargains ever!
Bill G.
Re: Airfoils
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Obviously someone (actually a lot of sportsmen) didn't read my Airfoil
article in Sympo??
Lift coefficient depends on mean camber.
Thickness adds drag (and potential strength, stiffness and sometimes reduced
drag at low lift).
Cambered plate is ideal shape for many model application.s
End of story,
H
Dynasty Cup scores.
===================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
There was an error on my part in the Dynasty cup scores published in
SCAT.
This was my error and I must apologize to Roger Maves who was 2nd in F1B
with a score of 1216
seconds and not 1116 as reported. Roger flew very well with his old all
balsa model that won him a place on the team.
Congratulations to Roger for his fine performance.
Jerry Murphy
The MMM Club
Thanks
======
Thanks to the Davis's for their donation in support of SEM
...................
Roger Morrell
