SCAT Electronic News 14 March 2001 issue 555
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SCAT Electronic News 14 March 2001 issue 555
Table of Contents
=================
F1C wing and stab for sale - Simpson
FW: URGENT NOTICE FOR CUFFMAC BANQUET MARCH 18 - Thorkidsen and Prey
Andres Lepp - Fantham
10th. Annual 'Worldwide Postal Competition' 2001/2 - Mosely
SCAT Annual History - Cowley
F1A Self-Launcher - Mazzocco
SEN Rules Change Survey Results
F1C wing and stab for sale
==========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I have an extra 102" Verbitsky composite wing and a stab for sale.=20
They have been flown but have never been crashed, are covered and are in =
excellent shape. The price for both is $250. I will have them with me at =
the SCAT annual at Lost Hills this weekend. Prefer to sell at field, if =
I must ship them, add $30.00 for boxing, postage and insurance.
Roger Simpson 9159 Hubbard Ct., Elk Grove CA 95624 =
telephone 1-916-686-1301
FW: URGENT NOTICE FOR CUFFMAC BANQUET MARCH 18
==============================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
HI GUYS;
I had an urgent phone call from Roy Hanson that only 20 reservations have
been made to date for the Banquet. Ron Boots is in Florida with his son who
is sick. There is none designated as Speaker either. Roy is asking us to
make contacts with everyone we know to let them know they can still make
reservations, even though the deadline is past.
They should phone Roy Hanson, he has an answering machine on 24 hours to
take your message. His number is: 818-718-1685 and if that don't work, phone
Kevin Keller at 818-402-4747. Leave your name and number of seats and your
phone number.
Let's make this a priority, and get out the troops. Also, IF anyone has a
suggestion for a Speaker, let Roy or Kevin know that too.
THANX FOR YOUR HELP.
Here's the details on the Banquet. It is at "CASTAWAY RESTAURANT,' 1250
Harvard Road, Burbank. Sunday the 18th. 11:30 to 12"30 Social Hour, no host
bar; 12:30 Banquet, all you can eat Buffet. Cost...$20.00 per person,
includes tax&tip. Cash and checks OK, no credit cards.
THANX AGAIN, get hot and contact those members! Ralph
Andres Lepp
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Thanks for SEN - it's keeping me going in the 'Foot and Mouth' winter days
here in the cloudy rainy UK. I got a real lift seeing the name of Andres
Lepp in the results for the Bear Cup. Victor Tchop was there too. These
two and Victor Isaenko were the USSR F1A team in Bulgaria in 1975. That
was my first UK F1A team and those guys looked like supermen to me. Was
that really nearly 27 years ago? Looking forward to endless October - the
sequel.
Thermals
Mike Fantham
10th. Annual 'Worldwide Postal Competition' 2001/2
==================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Greetings, gentlemen .... the W/Wide Postal commences June 1st, closes
February 17th. 2002 and, in the spirit of 'something for everyone', has the
following Freeflight events:-
OT/Vintage Rubber - for designs over 20" span to 30" Pre 1951
OT/Vintage Rubber - for designs over 30" span to 42"Pre 1951
OT/Vintage Rubber - one-design class for 1933 Lanzo Cabin
Small Rubber - ANY published design up to 20" span
P30 Rubber
Embryo Endurance
Dime Scale
'Cloud Tramp' - one-design event
TD Power - 'Slow Power' class any TD to .051, and earlier engines.
Open Slow Power - up to 3.5cc/.21 engines
Diesel Slow Power - Up to 1.5cc plain bearing diesels
'Stomper' - one-design event; 1.5cc PB diesels
OT/Vintage Glider - towline, spans not exceeding 50", pre- 1951
Classic Glider - any glider published pre 1961
Handlaunch Glider
Small Catapult Glider - to 12" span
Large Catapult Glider - over 12" span
Full details/rules/entry form available on MS Word/Windows 2000me (or will
fumble them into other formats on request).
Also have details of separate short-term summer events for Embryo and Cloud
Tramp, plus 'International Lulu Glider' contest ex UK. Jim Moseley
SCAT Annual History
===================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
* I am trying to complete a historical record of results for the SCAT
Annual Mini FAI Classes to enable the Trophies to be engraved in time for
this year's event !
* According to the minutes of the club meeting published in SCATter,
the Max Men Annual was adopted by the SCAT Club starting in 1990.
* Here is the list so far, please circulate amongst SCAT Members and
Luddites (Note: a word not in Microsoft spell-check !). Does anyone
have back issues of SCATter with the results, or look at your collection
of glass-ware to see what year's you might have won ? Please send me any=
omissions ASAP !
SCAT Annual Results
F1J
1990 ?
1991 ?
1992 ?
1993 Ken Happerset
1994 Ken Happerset
1995 ?
1996 ?
1997 ?
1998 Ken Happerset
1999 Bruce Augustus
2000 Bruce Augustus
F1G
1990 ?
1991 Toshi Hatazawa
1992 Bob White
1993 Joe Foster
1994 Toshi Hatazawa
1995 ?
1996 ?
1997 ?
1998 Jack Emery
1999 Bob White
2000 2-Way Tie - who won ?
Bob Critchlow ?
Hank Cole?
F1H
1990 ?
1991 Martyn Cowley
1992 Steve Geraghty
1993 Mike McKeever
1994 Martyn Cowley
1995 ?
1996 ?
1997 ?
1998 Martyn Cowley
1999 Martyn Cowley
2000 Martyn Cowley
F1A Self-Launcher
=================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Is there a good method for launching a F1A while practicing by yourself? I
am a week or two from finishing my first glider (Buddenbohm Max-Master) and
am sure that I am not the only one that has had to practice by themselves.
I've got a couple ideas that might work, but why reinvent the wheel?
Thermals,
Rey Mazzocco
Evansville, IN
SEN Rules Change Survey Results
===============================
Question 0.
I am from XXXXXX = where XXX is the country you live in. [not
necessarily your citizenship]
USA = 36 UK = 2 Finland = 1 Australia = 2
Argentina = 1 Russia =1 Ukraine = 1
----------------------------------------------------------------
Proposals ..
- All three F1 events, A,B,and C have a German proposal to disallow DT as an
excuse for an attempt. This is to limit the advantage the unscrupulous
might have with RC DT systems.
1. FOR or AGAINST proposal to count a flight less than 20 seconds
as am attempt - if the model D/Ts [Note that this does not
specify why the model D/T's - as that cannot really
be determined by the timer keeper]
...... FOR AGAINST
USA 19 16
Rest 2 4
Total 21 20
- F1J (1/2 A)
o 5 second motor run
o 7 flights
o 180 second max
o score = total of 7 flights
2A. I do NOT fly F1J and I am FOR or AGAINST the proposal to change
the F1J rules as above.
FOR AGAINST
USA 6 4
Rest 3 1
Total 9 5
2B. I fly F1J and I am FOR or AGAINST the proposal to change the
F1J rules as above.
FOR AGAINST
USA 1 24 Motor run = 5seconds = 9
Rest 0 2
Total 1 26
Many [9] of the people against the rule change were not opposed
to reducing the motor run to 5 seconds, although there were others
who thought that even that would destroy the nature of the event -
That allows beginners to compete with the expers up to the
fly off.
.......
- F1K (CO two)
o 1 cc tank
o certain flight limitations set to limit flyoff participation
3A. I do NOT fly F1K and I am FORor AGAINST the above rules changes.
FOR AGAINST
USA 6 3
Rest 2 1
Total 8 4
3B. I do fly F1K and I am FORor AGAINST the above rules changes.
..... FOR AGAINST
USA 1 0
Rest 0 0
Total 1 0
- It is anticipated there will be some discussion although not on the agenda
about the use of geared propellers on F1C models.
A) As seen in the propellor article by Jack Norris in the NFFS '98
Symposium (page 19) use of a gearbox for F1C is a scientific
inevitability.
B) There will be at least two sources of engine/gearbox combinations
available soon. (Nelson is considering offering one under $500)
C) F1A and F1B have endured dramatic technical device adaptations in the
lsat several years without deliterious effects to
participation.(electronic timing/actuation on F1A and Variable
pitch/delayed propellor action on F1B front ends)
4a. I do NOT fly F1C and I and FOR or AGAINST forbidding geared motors.
FOR AGAINST
USA 3 10
Rest 2 4
Total 5 14
4b. I do fly F1C and I and FOR or AGAINST forbidding geared motors.
FOR AGAINST
USA 3 15
Rest 0 2
Total 3 17
5. I have or intend to have a F1C model with a geared motor during this
year.
USA Yes = 12 No = 4
Rest Yes 1
Total 13 4
There is a Uranian proposal to Require teams in the World Championsships.
If they do not have sufficent people a flyer from
another event may time. The object is to increase the quality of
timekeepers.
6. I and FOR or AGAINST the proposal to require teams participating in
a World Chamsp to supply a time keeper.
FOR AGAINST
USA 21 11
Rest 5 2
Total 26 13
There is a Ukrainian proposal to have an 'all star' [offically
known as FAI team] team in the FF World
Champs. This would be made up from the highest placing people in the
World Cup, who are not a defending champion or in a National team.
The World Cup administrator would be the 'Team Manager'.
7. I am FOR or AGAINST the propsal to have an all star team in the
World Championships.
FOR AGAINST
USA 15 18
Rest 3 5
Total 15 23
8. List the FAI FF events that you fly e,g, F1A, F1B, .. ets
F1A F1B F1C F1G F1H F1J F1D
USA 12 9 17 8 6 19
Rest 7 3 3 1 2 3 1
Total 19 12 20 8 8 22 1
Note that some people take part in more than one event.
Everyone did not vote on every item.
Also the events that have the highest participation in the
USA are F1B and F1G - but seeing tha there there were not
any significant rule changes this year [F1B having been destroyed
previously by reducing the rubber to 30 grams] affecting these events
poll participation was down.
Some of the additional comments
===============================
Proposed Rule Change from Bob Johannes
=======================================
In addition to the my answers to the posed questions provided separtely,
I would like suggest the following:
Introduce a proposal to eliminate the requirement to use only caster
oili FiC fuel. As far as I can tell, there is no peerformance advantage
to using synthetic oil and it is a lot more user friendly.
The proposed new wording is:
3.3.2 .... The composition shall be as follows: 80% methanol, 20%
lubricant( castor oil and/or synthetic oil).
Bob Johannes
infamous readers survey,
=======================
From one infamous reader ( Brokenspar ) :
I am against anything those goddam uranians want to propose !
Why we included questions on ideas not formally in as proposals
===============================================================
Comment from Matt Gewain ..
The Rules change that forbids Closed Loop Sensors was not a proposal [at
last year's CIAM meeting] only a
discussion item that resulted in a rules change.
The B-team
===========
I did like Jim Parker's reply to question 7.
7. I am FOR or AGAINST the propsal to have an all star team in the
World Championships.
Against: this is not ice skating!
Hey, let's allow the financially able countries to send an A and B teams.
The USA B team would be self funded and selected from the Final's result.
This would increase participation! I'd pay my way!!
The survey expected For or Against answers - but as
fellow F1B sportsman for OZ said ..
Sorry Roger, I had to make comments :)
so seeing some of these were of interest that are printed below.
.. together with or without an editorial comment. Note that generally I have
not included the name of the person, but typically they are active
participants.
Flights less than 20 seconds not an attempt if the model d/ts
==============================================================
1. AGAINST - it could happen to anyone who had a timer malfunction. Even a
Seelig F1C timer can strip cogs on a gear and unwind the entire spring in a
split second ' Presto ' instant DT.
#1 DT: There are too many ways a model can inadvertdently experience an
unintended DT to consider a blanket provision that would automatically
assess a penalty if, say, a DT line breaks.
Question 1: This question and the proposal do not relate to each other very
well. I am for leaving the rules as they are. Mechanical timers, and I
suppose electronic ones, can malfunction and cycle through all functions in
an instant with the end result being a DT. All fliers should not be
penalized because someone MIGHT have a RC/DT and be tempted to use it. The
ultimate answer here is to require RC/DT systems to be obvious, so that all
timers are aware of the potential misuse. If you have seen Victor Stamov's
new RC/DT unit you realize how obvious it can be so that the timer can
actually watch him remove the module prior to making an official flight.
1. FOR (but would omit 'if it d/ts')
Editorial Comment
==================
While the German proposal could be considered a Luddite effort against
potential or suspected Radio D/T or similar alleged trickery. Most people
who liked it were of the same mind as the person immediately above i.e.
remove the 20 second attempt altogether. This is clearly a way of
making the event tougher and placing more importance on consistancy.
I can also point out to the Luddite or Magic timer user that while
the technique used by Victor Stamov on bunt bailout used a d/t to guarantee
getting the model to the ground in under 20 seconds - one could just as easily
take a leaf out of the RC glider fraternities spot landing techniques
and use a more traditional kamikaze approach.
Finally all this trickery is obviously prone to error so the simplest way
to stop it is just do away with the attempt all together. This will make people
think harder before using any trickery, electronic or mechanical.
F1J rules change
================
2B. I fly F1J and I am AGAINST the proposal to change the
F1J rules as above.
The state of art in F1J may justify rule change in lieu of
performance but 5 sec runs and 180 maxes would spell death
to attracting those who would dip their toes using simpler
airplanes. 5 flights are more than enough for a supposedly
"fun" event. We don't need another marathon to hog flying
time at a mixed event contest.
-
2B. I fly F1J and I am AGAINST the proposal to change the
F1J rules as above.
Here we go again, shooting ourselves in the foot. We have the best thing
that has happened worldwide to the free flight gas community and someone
wants to make it an elitist event just like F1C. Do we need another event
that only 30 guys fly it nationwide? At 2 min it’s an event that can be
flown on numerous small fields. At 7 seconds its an event that any body with
a .049 motor can and does want to fly. And with 5 rounds it’s a perfect mini
event that can be flown in conjunction with F1A-B-C contest. Look at the
Spring Cup and the Autumn Cup contests as an example. Less that 4 or 5 in
F1A or B or C, but 10 to 12 for F1J.
#2 F1J:
* 5 second run. Yes.
* 180 sec max. No. Only one flying site in the U.S. can consistently contain
180-sec maxes. This proposal would be detrimental to the America's Cup, as
assigning 180-sec maxes to F1J would discourage many from flying at
virtually all the U.S. America's Cup venues.
* 7 rounds vs. 5 rounds. Keep it at five. Overlap is going to dissuade
competition from fliers in other disciplines.
2B. AGAINST (5 secs run YES, the rest NO)
re: Survey. I feel qualified to vote on the proposals in just one event, F1J,
because that is the only event I currently fly in now and then.
I am opposed to the proposed rules change. I am especially adamant in
opposition to the 180 second max with the paucity of flying fields able to
accomodate these times.
Thanks for asking.
Bob Stalick
2B. I fly F1J and I am AGAINST the proposal to change the
F1J rules as above.
[Comment: no 180-second max, please. Have heard that FAI fuel was/will be
proposed also. I would rather see 7 x 120 with FAI fuel, or perhaps 5 x 120
with extended Round 1 max if weather permits.]
.......
Question 2B: AGAINST
Comment: I am for the 5 second motor run, but against the 7 flights and 180
second Max. Even at 5 sec begining modelers can still be competitive with a
two minute max and most flying sites in the world will not accomodate 180
secs with these small ships (OOS and loss of aircraft would be a continual
problem). If the rules go to seven flights you will loose many of the
modelers who fly both large and small events. Seven flights requires the
same effort as the large events and now , for instance the 14 rounder is a
21 rounder with two potential flyoffs.
>2B. I fly F1J and I am FOR or AGAINST the proposal to change the
>F1J rules as above.
The whole point of the mini classes is 2 minute maxes on small fields,
F1J is way past that performance level, so the 5 sec run is a good idea
but not the 3 minute max... (I have flown F1J in the past)
Editorial Comment
=================
It is without doubt that the vast majority of F1J flyers do not want
the CIAM to mess with ther event. The 5 seconds engine run looks
like the only reasonable change ? how would a and AstroStar go in 5 sec ?
F1C ban the geared motor phantom proposal
=========================================
4b. I do fly F1C and am AGAINST FORBIDDING geared motors.
(Two years ago I suggested through SCAT reasons for
considering the preemptive banning of geared engines but
coincidently Verbitsky let the cat out of the bag "Down
Under." Because of my interest I was "rewarded" with the
task of writing a report for the NFFS Symposium. As far as
I'm concerned we got it and best make the best of it. (I'm
still smarting over the delayed banning of the pipe thirty
years ago after so much time and energy was poured into it.
I don't want to see a repeat run.)
I fully support the use of gear boxes and other technology whih will make the
planes more efficient.
4B I am against forbidding geared motors.
Ediorial comment
================
The above sentiment was expressed by a number of flyers - tecnological
innovation should be encouraged. While geared motors seem very good
they do not demonstrate a tremendous advantage.
All Star Team
=============
7. I am absolutely AGAINST the proposal to have an all star team in the
World Championships.
The World Championships are the place for the different Counties to compete
for world-wide honors. Having been the Team Manager of a Team that won a
Team Championship for the USA, I can vouch for the elation of a Country
competing and winning against the nations of the world. The Olympics are a
great example. If a world champion fails to qualify for the country team
they do not compete on some makeshift hybrid team.
7. I am FOR or AGAINST the propsal to have an all star team in the
World Championships.
AGAINST, since the current World Cup system is in truth a European Cup in
disguise (due to the scoring system) this would simply be a way for a few
more Euro fliers to get a shot at the big one out of turn.
Geared Motor Availability
=========================
Question 5: Have had no luck in finding a geared front end and don't have a
clue on availability - and I suspect that no one else does either. It is
VERY DANGEROUS for there to be only a single supplier of an essential
apparatus, such as the geared engine.
Editorial Comment
=================
My understanding is that Verbitsky sells one and that Nelson will shortly
have one on the market.
In term of having only one supplier the F1C sportsman should not move
to F1B !
.........................
Roger Morrell
