SEN Feb. 11 2000
- Category: Archive 2000
- Hits: 848
News and Reports 2000 - First half
SCAT Electronic News Feb 11 2000
Table of Contents
America's Cup Banquet Filling fast - Parker
MRL's New Web Site - Stevens
Baby Bee 40 -JAHNKE
CIAM - encore - Woodhouse
Paul Rowledge - Tribe
Aspect Ratio etc - O'Reilly
More wire ? -
Paul - Woodhouse
More CIAM - Woohhouse
Proposals to CIAM - Morris
Aspect Ratios/RN - Hines
Ken Bauer electric timer - Linkosalo
America's Cup Banquet Filling fast
Please post on SEN.
The AmCup Banquet is filling quick! Only 30 more seats available of the 160
seat limit. Contact George Batiuk at soon or at the
Winter classic this weekend.
I made a menu change from what was published earlier. Stuffed pork chops,
salad, green beans (sorry Vlad, no ranch beans) and bread will be served.
Please contact me with special diet needs. I'll do my best
MRL's New Web Site
Would you please include MRL as a supplier of materials for FF models.
Check out the web site at www.modelresearchlabs.com
We have a really big stock of carbon fiber items.
Baby Bee 40
An announcement and a question:
I would like to alert readers of the Scat News that an event that was
proposed in this forum last July will be offered at two major contests this
summer. Baby Bee 40, a simple gas event for Baby Bee .049 engines will be
offered at the Fiesta of Five Flags Meet in Pensacola, Fl, June 17 and 18,
and at the Dayton Ohio based Free Flight AeroModelers Society meet on May 6
and 7. The Baby Bee 40 rules for these trial events are:
1.) Cox Baby Bee .049 ( reed valve, single intake port, no Black Widows or
TD's, any head, any tank mount)
2.) No dimension over 40"
3.) 200 gram minimum weight
4.) No auto surfaces except DT
5.) No folding props
6.) 9 sec. engine run w/ timer
7.) 12 sec. engine run w/ fuel metering (eyedropper)
8.) 6 attempts to make 3 flights
9.) Attempt = less than 40 sec.
For more info on the event check ot the Beginners Corner on the NFFS web
Has the AMA ever considered temporary licenses? The license would be
similar to out of state fishing and hunting licenses that are good for just
a few days. For a fee smaller than one years membership, maybe $5 - $10 for
an open contestant, one would receive insurance coverage for the duration of
a sanctioned event. Once the event is over the coverage woud expire. This
would of course be in addition to entry fees for the event and would not
include any publications or other perks of AMA membership. The $1 dollar
membership for juniors makes it easy for a kid to show up and fly, but what
about attracting some adults?
If this issue has been raised in the past I am curious to know why it was
not implimented. If not what are your reader's thoughts on the idea?
CIAM - encore
Should have added. I have problem in principle with electronic d/t for
F1A and F1B however it has to be readily available.
Michael J Woodhouse
Paul Rowledge can be contacted on
Aspect Ratio etc
I first built a "D" box F1B for the 1994 Team Finals at Palm Bay. I took it
to Denver for test flights. That sucker WOULD NOT glide. It refused to slow
down without stalling. I had been using a B7406f w/o turbulating. I saw no
reason to change. When this sucker refused to fly I reasoned that the "D"
box smoothed over the leading edge discontinuity, and that the "D" box
version obviously needed a turbulator. So I stuck on a polyester thread of
about .010-.015 in. dia. at approx. 10% and a few preliminary flights
indicated that it might work. I showed up at Palm Bay and, again, the model
refused to glide. I consulted Fred Pearce: Fred asked, "Where is your
turbulator?" "10%." He said, "Try moving it to 5%!" I did so and suddenly
the model would glide!
There is a lot of speculation out there about the best aspect ratio for F1B.
By my lights, the best AR for a non-turbulated wing is lower than the best AR
with a turbulated wing. I think that, if you push the AR, turbulation is a
must, especially if you have a nice, smooth "D" box up front taking out all
More wire ?
I am going to MAXMEN in 17.of February. I would like to buy 0,3 wire for
See you in Lost Hills (Sorry for my not the best english)
>Does anyone have an address for Paul Rowledge (of F1C supplies fame)
>Somewhere in the UK, Wales ?
14 Greenacre Drive
Michael J Woodhouse
>[Mike - where did you see the proposals ]
In Free Flight News
Michael J Woodhouse
Proposals to CIAM
I received my Free Flight News yesterday with the following information
(I'm going to abbreviate and consolidate because it is 2 1/2 pages of fine
The CIAM Plenary meeting will be held on March 23-24. The agenda has
not yet been issued, but in advance of that here are details of known
ITALY is to resubmit their proposals from last year for fundamemental
changes to the major and mini FAI classes, including power models with the
motor size unrestricted but run controlled by fuel contained in a length of
DENMARK: The 20 second rule attempt to be deleted for all major
Reason: The rule is based on historical reasons, which no longer exist.
Maintaining the rule will give users of RDT an unreasonable advantage
F1B max weight of motor to be 25 gr.
RDT to be allowed for F1A and F1B as for F1C
Unlimited number of models for F1A, F1B and F1C. Reason: After
removal of the mandatory processing day at WC it is not practical to
Duration of flight: "The standard maximum time for each round is
minutes. The Jury may permit changes to the max time for each round. The
max time for each round must be announced before the beginning of each
Reason: The main reason is to reduce the number of flyoff particitants to
10-20%of the competitors.
CIAM FF SUBCOOMMITTEE has made the following proposals:
F1A Sport Class: Max wing span 2.1 m. Only moveable rudder and DT allowed.
Circle towing allowed.
F1B Sport Class: Max wing span 1.4 m. The only controls allowed to be
moved during flight is a control to cause DT and one other aerodynamic
control which is allowed a single change of position.
F1C Sport Class: Max wing span 2 m. Only rudder control power to glide (no
bunt) motor stop and DT.
Reason: The concept of the Sport class is to encourage wider
participation. The models will be flown alongside the regular thus ensuring
little additional workload on organizers as it is not an additional class
and its introduction does not result in proliferation of classes nor a
dilution of participation in existing classes.
A new Paragraph is proposed to define the National Classification for
F1A F1B F1C combined team results. This is established by taking the total
scores of the three members of the teams in all the contest categories -
highest total wins. No FAI medal or diploma awards for this classification.
Para. 3.1.7: Modified to 4 min. 1st flight 3 min. subsequent. Jury may
permit changes in flight time. For any flights over 3 min the additional
time over 3 min is used only to resolve ties. Reason: increased max time
to provide better test. The additional time will be considered only as the
first way to resolve a tie after 7 rounds. This serves to reduce the impact
of performance differences in round one if the conditions are difficult.
Also, "changes" allows for longer as well as shorter rounds by the Jury
rather than delaying extended flights into flyoffs. These are on the same
basis as the round 1 extended max - count only in resolving ties.
a) The total time for each competitor for each of the official flights
defined in 3.1.3 is taken for the final classification subject to a
limitatiion of three minutes for each flight. This total time is also used
to determeine team classification.
b) In order to decide the individual placings when there is a tie, the
total time achieved in each of the official flights defined in 3.1.3 will
be taken without limitation at three minutes.
c) and d) unchanged. Changes in 3.1.8 are to accommodate changes of 3.1.7.
F1B and F1C to have similar wording and procedure changes to those in
3.1.7 and 3.1.8 for F1A. The max for round 1 in F1B in 3.2.7 and for F1C in
3.3.7 is proposed to be 5 minutes.
George Xenakis is a member of the Techincal Committee and is adviser
to AMA President Dave Brown who casts USA votes in the CIAM Plenary
meeting. Dan Tracy will attend as a non voting representative of the USA
Free Flight Team Selection Committee. I'm sure either George and/or Dan
would appreciate your input. These meetings take place in Lausanne,
Hello to Peter, Jim, etc.
I have been reading the comments on the use of higher AR's for F1G and F1B
with interest and thought I would mention that in SYMPO 70 that Hank Cole
published what I have always considered an excellent treatice, titled
"SELECTION OF ASPECT RATIO FOR MIN. SINK. SPEED OF A NORDIC
GLIDER". Some related ideas might be gleaned from reading it with the0
these other classes in mind.
I might add, that my observations seem to bear out what Jim said about
the difficulty of making skinny winged plane fly/glide well at the very low
REs of Coupe & Wake size/weight models. =20
While I have not run any AR calcs, it seems like the winners in those
events tend to more have more "normal" values, while I see the ones
with narrow chords(especially@ tips) suffer from loss of altitude and "odd"
behavior at critical flight moments.
I know the 70 SYMPO issue is rare, and if you can't get your hands on
a copy, contact me and I will copy the article for you.
Ken Bauer electric timer
I received the January issue of FFd a few days ago (surface mail is
slow) to find out a drawing and a few pics of Jim Parkers F1A. A closer
look into the innards of the nose pod revealed something familiar, with 14
legs in the circuit board. A "Stamp" microchip, all right. Reading the
text confirmed this, and stated that he runs Ken Bauer software in it.
Having been recenstly stuffing a similar Stamp into my wakefield pylon,
I'd be interested in changing some ideas of technical details. Does
Mr. Bauer have e-mail, or can he be reached by "ordinary" mail? Is his
software an item to sell, or is he interested in discussing it with