SEN-386 March 15 2000

News and Reports 2000 - First half
SCAT Electronic News 15 March 2000 - Survey Results

Table of Contents
SCAT Electronic News Survey Results
Alice Carroll
Relearning F1C ? - Anderson
FFN is good. - Toto
News of FAI/CIAM - Kaynes
RDT beta program progress - Kowal
RCDT and Cheating - Mattes
Upcoming events

SCAT Electronic News Survey Results

1. The country you live in
Australia - 7
Austria 1
Belgium 1
Canada 3
Denmark 1
Finland 3
Hungary 1
Israel 1
Japan 3
Netherlands 8
New Zealand 6
Solvenia 1
Spain 1
Sweden 3
Switzerland 1
Ukraine 1
UK 8
USA - 77

Total 127

[ any pollster will tell you that this number expressed as percentage
of our readers (about 500) is very very high]

2. The FAI FreeFlight Classes you fly

A - 63
B - 62
C - 37

G - 30
H - 23
J - 21
[Note that some people responded with more than class]
[We did ask the level of participation because we had a concern
that people who are not real participants would overly weight
the results one way or another. This turned out not to be the case]

3. Remove limit on number of models [currently 4]

against - 60
For - 63

4. Radio DT for F1A and F1B

against 48
for 78

5. Remove attempt of 20 seconds for F1A, F1B and f1C

against - 81
for - 42

6. An flight of less that 20 seconds is considered a flight
not an attempt if the model d/ts

against - 55
for - 67

7. permit max to be longer than 3 minutes - with longer
to be used for resolving ties only.

against - 48
for 77

8. permit longer maxes if weather and retrival permit

against - 52
for - 72

9. Change in team scoring at world champs - this is a complex change
and seeing it was not for an individual placing the explanation
is ommitted.

against - 26
for - 28
abstain - 62

10. addition of new classes f1A, B and C "sport" with more restricted

against - 74
for - 51

would not fly - 53
would fly - 44

11. "Italian" proposal that makes the main classes much simpler by prohibiting
the use of automatic surfaces. In F1C controls motor run
by fuel capacity. Reduces rubber in F1B to 25 grams. Significantly changes
flying rules.

against - 106
for - 11

12. seeing this is a radical proposal that would mean that many
current models could no longer be used and it changes
the technical orientation of FAI FF - if this was passed

I would continue with FAI FF - 45
I would stop FAI FF - 59

13 Reduce the size of the rubber motor in F1B [note that this proposal was
not included - it was submitted by the Danes but was or will be withdrawn]

against - 97
for 11

[Note that not all respondents answered every question and
a very small number of questions had to be ignored because they had a complex
conditional reply that could not be easily counted]

[editorial commentary on a some of points.

There were a number of comments against removing the restriction on the
number of models - these were mainly based on cost or cost of transporting
models to a World Champs by aiplane.

Questions 5 and 6 to do with shorts flights are a little misleading
because for most they were conditional on the RCDT being passed.

Looking at the Sport classes a for response did not automatically
means that the person would fly the event and vice versa.

The question that raised the most emotion was the [pseudo?] Italian
proposal. Most but not all in favor of this proposal were not 'A'
level contestants - one exception was a recent US team member who got
on the team flying a simple model.

There was consensus that the model specifications should not be changed
but something may need to be done to make fly offs etc more manageable
in fine weather conditions. However the only proposals that might
go to changing the flying rules [7 and 8] did not universal
acceptance. Many people indicated that they were concerned the event
would be too hard to run - come to think of it number of those
replied did come from people who are also event organizers.]

Alice Carroll

Alice Carroll, the wife of long time SCAT member and F1C flyer Ed Carroll
passed away 24 February as a result of diabetic complications.

Alice used to attend SCAT events before her failing
health stopped her. Our sympathies to Ed and their family.

Relearning F1C ?
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I have been away from the FIC event for a while and am in the process of
relearning all the new rules since I built my last model in 1987. What
significant technological advances! I am writing in response to the RCDT
discussion. First, I think it is time to put this stuff on a discussion data
base so I can keep track of the path of comments and discussions. This is
entertaining! Second, I think it is a good idea, but one could easily be
tempted to push a button once or twice to "get the edge". In doing that, one
is cheating themselves and the competitors in the quest for the perfect glide
and ultimately a spot on the team. F1C will be governed like NASCAR
automobile racing and there will be rules and checks for everything. Too many
rules will take away the spirit of the Free flight model which is the thrill
of a successful flight or the agony of a mistake or malfunction. That's free
flight, take it or leave it!

A solution is to have a toggle type switch which would make it difficult to
"bump" the stab setting and to include a trip wire (typical of a selig timer)
which does not have a direct connection to the stab, thus eliminating one to
possibly trim the stab. That said, I am a proponent of RCDT and where can I
buy one?

Glenn Anderson
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FFN is good.
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

FFN is good.

But wouldn't it be neat if our own governing body wanted us to know of
proposals & get our response?


News of FAI/CIAM
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I have to respond to the recent Scat. First to thank Thedo Andre for his
kind words about Free Flight News and secondly to agree with you that there
should be no compulsion to get a specific magazine to find out the CIAM
news. I do my best on FFn in getting out the information as soon as the
old-technology delivery allows but there should be other routes available.

You have done a great job this year in circulating information on SEN plus
your good extra work on the survey. I do take issue with your comment that
this year it is a little better with the information on the FAI web site.

Whatever the format, it was still LATE on the schedule specified for CIAM -
and the web site had only the basic agenda and not the extra stuff which
was mailed in the annexes. This will be discussed next week in Lausanne -
even if fully electronic, the agenda needs to be out earlier to allow full
discussion and briefing of delegates before the Plenary meeting.

I look forward to the survey results - I am sure you will then have a
further round of considerable correspondence.


RDT beta program progress
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Well the RDT action is really heating up.
I E-mailed Ken Bauer about the operation of his RDT
unit to undestand how it works and to verify if indeed
it would be possible to "reprogram" my models in
flight using his system and my STAMP based "timer".
I place "timer" in quotations as it is really a computer
capable of repositioning flying surface positions based
upon preprogrammed logic or in the case of RDT via
remote control.

Ken Bauer tells me his system sends a signal to the
airplane when the button is pushed. It would be very
easy for me to program my "Timer" to interpret these
"Morse Code" signals to retrim/direct/ whatever I want
the airplane to do. Since the code on a STAMP cannot
be uploaded there is no way for an official to determine
what the program I have loaded in my "Timer" is actually
doing. Therefore I can use my RDT if legal to perform
all sorts of retrimming/directing actions during the flight
of my airplane and no one can prove I did it.
When the discussion first arose about RDT I thought
wow what a Great!! idea. Now however I must stand with
the group saying be careful of what you wish for, or you
shall surely get it.

I will probably purchase an RDT system for testing etc.
but will firmly stand against it introduction as a tool
to use during competition. It is indeed as someone
stated the wedge that will forever eliminate "free"
from freeflight.
May the discussion continue ---Ken---

RCDT and Cheating
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RCDT and the ability now or sometime in the future to cheat via
in-flight trim changes should not stop its acceptance. It should be
accepted or rejected based on its merits. If we look at cheating it is
not unknown today for our "sportsmen" to cheat. It is in fact not
uncommon to see someone in F1C start their engine just as someone else
launches their ship. Often the first person is called for an overrun
when in fact the timer timed the bunt due to the 120 dB engine running
in his left ear. We call this piggy-backing but all too often it
appears otherwise. Why don't we have a rules change to eliminate
simultaneous launches at least during flyoffs.

Another area is the timing of engine runs. At the Nats this year a
group of individuals were stretching their engine runs to the point
where there was no question that they were overruns. Upon being warned
they changed their ways but this was blatant cheating. At least they
did not place in the contest.

I believe the solution, which has already been suggested, is to have the
rules set up to declare any early DT or other ground to air command
prior to the max result in an attempt. We could have the transmitters
fitted with an aural warning device that indicated when a signal was
transmitted. This could be easily verified as part of the model
processing procedure. Sure the flier could have a second concealed
transmitter and accomplish his ends. In fact he could do that now and
no one would be the wiser. Do we disassemble models today to see if
they have secret RCDT or trim change devices? When is the last time
your engine was disassembled to measure the displacement? Lets get real
- some people will cheat and RCDT will not alter that fact and it will
not increase the likelihood of cheating. If RCDT is a technology worth
accepting then get on with it.

Bob Mattes

Upcoming - This weekend
Holiday on Ice - somewhere in Norway
SCAT Annual - somewhere at Lost Hills

SCAT Annual

America's Cup Event - your chance to score big while
the stars are away at the Holiday On Ice

Saturday March 18 Lost Hills
First round 8am - F1A, B and C
First round maxes 210 210 and 240 seconds respectively

Sunday March 19

First round 8 am F1 G H J

Tom Coussens CD - 661 222 7137

ALSO Sat night don't eat at Denny's or Burns Bros -
Dine in style - Beef or Veal
SCAT Annual Banquet at The Wasco Valley Rose Country Club
Gourmet meal organized by Pierre Brun $20

call Pierre 818 989 4970 - right away to reserve your place

Roger Morrell