SEN-444 July 24 2000

News and Reports 2000 - second half
SCAT Electronic News 24 July 2000 Issue 444

Table of Contents
Benedek Airfoils - Dilly
The Sportsman on "Sport Models" - Chaussebourg
Antonov Antics
MaxMen bake at Lost Hills - Tymchek

Benedek Airfoils
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Regarding the discussion on the B-7406 and B-6456-f airfoils, I used the
latter on a series of F1As in the early to mid-1960s, one of which, #5, was
published in the final '64-65 Zaic Yearbook. It may well be that the
surface imparted by the structure had a significant effect on the
performance, including the stall recovery, but the model was one of the
better gliders of its period, and had a notably good stall recovery, with a
tendency to perform rather useful 'flat-topped' stalls, almost as if
someone was applying down elevator at the appropriate moment.

Top surface was fully sheeted, with a tissue-covered undersurface and a
single turbulator about 8mm aft of the l.e. invigorators hadn't been
thought of then. Possibly a significant factor was the stab section, which
was close to the Ritz 6-60-9b. It's an odd-looking airfoil, flat-bottomed
back to about 40% and then with quite marked undercamber aft of this. The
ordinates were in the Malkin airfoil book, and also in the Nov. 1960 MAN in
the happy days before 'Now With Increased R/C Coverage'. Our thinking at
the time was that in normal level flight the stab acts like a low camber
section, but with any nose-up pitch the undercambered rear kicks into
effect to counter this. Absolutely no data to prove this, but that was the
way the things used to fly.


Martin Dilly

The Sportsman on "Sport Models"
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Dear Roger,

I kept quiet for the spring discussions about "Sport Models".
But as it is rising up again, and going on the wrong way, I should like to
add some explainations to what my good friend Ivan HOREJSI tried to explain
a few months ago.
It seems that Ivan did not succeed, so I don't think I'will too...
But let's try:
Some years ago, we were a small working group, with Ivan, Luca GIALANELLA
and myself, working on a project to be able to use the classes F1A, F1B and
F1C on a simple way for the juniors.
The principle was to keep the general FAI specifications, when adding some
restrictions in order to have the "junior models" effectivly built by
juniors (which, to my opinion was not so important) but also TRIMMED by
juniors (which was more "serious").
Still to my opinion, unfortunatly, this formula was not accepted, and seemed
to have no interest among the Free Flight World...
We arrived about at the "restrictions" of the "Sport Models" formula.
I don't like the words "Sport models".
But then, two years ago at the CIAM Free Flight technical meeting,the idea
of taking these restrictions for using them at World Cup contests was raised
by Anselmo ZERI, it seemed to create more interest among the people at the
meeting. This is the reason the Free Flight Sub Committee made the proposal.
The idea was NOT to create new classes, as well as put any limits to the
existing F1A, F1B, F1C classes, as some people still beleive it (I remember
the reactions of my good friend Eugeny ...)
No, it was not the intent.
For me, World classes are the best of the best, and this is the reason they
are World classes: No doubt on that point.
But, as many others, I noticed that everytime there was a modification of a
rule, we have lost people, and we are less and less participants at FAI
contests. I mean "World Cup contests"!
For World Champs, we still have "about" three flyers in each class, and I
don't see any reason to make rules easier on that point, or to put any
I do think that improvments in model technique is necessary, and only top
flyers may participate to World Championships.
On the contrary, ANYBODY can participate to World Cup contests.
And it is not encouraging, when you are aging, with "aged" (not yet
"vintage") models, to enter a competition and know since the biggining that
you can find your name only on the second or the third page...
So, when saying that models corresponding to some "restrictions" or
"limitations" if "within the FAI limits of F1A, F1B and F1C
would be included in the general classification counting for the World Cup,
but should be also included in a separate classification where they would
have a chance to be on the first page, we thought that it could motivate
some people to take their old wood and tissue FAI models out of their boxes
and fly them again.


I hope I have been clear enough, if a little bit too long.
The intent has NEVER been to CREATE new classes or to ban the existing
classes .
It was only to give possibilities, to make a different classification,
according to some limitations, for people flying models with such
limitations, as well as we have already a special classification for
"juniors", or for some contests as for instance the ANTONOV CUP where there
is a special classification for people over 50 years old.

If any questions, I'll be happy to answer, but please, "don't shoot the

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Antonov Antics

I made it to the Antonov Cup for the second year running. A fortuitous
business trip to Europe on the week after the cup let me add on Kyiv
for only $200. Note the now PC spelling of the former Kiev. The
visa was tougher get with more money and bureaucracy. Not unconnected I suspect
with the difficulty that Ukranians have in getting US visas. The additional
$45 Visa processing fee that you have to pay in the US but not
the UK for example is the same amount that a Ukranian has to pay for
a US visa application. But politics aside the F1B/C day started off windy
and in the wrong direction. It blew across the field and swung between the
village and the experimental wheat field guarded by the guy with the AK - 47.
The latter is just like home except that its usually not wheat
here that they guard so 'carefully'. So they kept postponing the start until
3 pm ! When we flew a 150 sec round then 3 180 and a 210. At this
point the weather was rather nice. The fly-off was held that evening starting
at 7 minutes. Oley Kulakovsky was the only person making 7 minutes.
I had some trouble
is understanding what was going on but got there Ok so cannot
blame the organizer for launching to the left in the fly -off.

The next day was better but the thermals were more tricky as was
evidenced by the small number of max outs in F1A. My efforts were in
F1G with the prototype of Vivchar's new F1G. The model flew well
except I launched top the left again in one round [maybe
another political influence from the Soviet days ?]. This meant
that I was beaten by Gorban, young Gorban that is. The most entertainment
came from Geoff Kent and his helpers. Geoff's F1G , of obvious inferior
Russian origin developed some problems with the hub, breaking a hanger.
Igor Vivchar's club desended on the model and with the flourish that would
do credit to a F1 or NASCAR pit crew repaired the model. Geoff was heard
to mutter something to do with the number of people required to fly
a Brit F1G model. The combined effort got Geoff into the fly off and caused
him to win a bet with his fellow workers back home who did not think he would
make the flyoff.

The meeting finished with the usual prize giving, including the extra
awards for the veterans. Geoff was so euforic after this that he was able
to face yet trip across the field and back into Kyiv in Vladimir Vivchar's
Lada - an e-ticket ride for sure. A great contest that turned out well
inspite of the wind at the start of the first day.

MaxMen bake at Lost Hills
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This weekend - great contest at Lost Hills. Hot, but under 95 and the wind
did not come up. Collection of people trying to qualify for the US Team
Selection finals, including AA.

Hi Roger,
Can you put the results on the net for me?
The weather was beautiful both Saturday and Sunday. I want to thank
everyone that came. It was a good first experience as Contest Director.
The only fly-off was in F1G.

1. Hector Diez 1191
2. Pierre Brun 1175
3. Don Zink 1152
4. Dallas Parker 1136
5. Jim Parker 1092
6. Dmitro Kozlyuk 1075
7. Kate Joyce 180

1. Alex Andrikov 1260
2. George Batiuk 1243
3. Mike Davis 1240
4. Ralph Cooney 1235
5. Rich Rohrke 1203
6. Bob Critchlow 1095
7. Eugene Jensen 1076
8. Blake Jensen 1045
9. Roger Morrell 1011
10. Dane Jensen 900
11. Larry Norvall 468

1. Roger Simpson 1260
2. Doug Joyce 1239
3. Ken Happersett 1220
4. Guy Menanno 1196
5. John Warren 1189
6. Fred Ginder 1123

1. Bob White 600 +243
2. Larry Norvall 600 +186
3. Mike Davis 600 +174
4. Bob Van Nest 600 + 98
5. Bob Tymchek 596
6. Roger Morrell 366
7. Bob Critchlow 340
8. Bill Davis 335
9. Charles Schaaf -

1. Bob Norton 452

Roger Morrell