SCAT Electronic News 27 January 1999
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SCAT Electronic News 27 January 1999
Table of contents
=================
motels in Lost Hills
Rubber and Termites Question
gps
Corresondence - Hermann Andresen
Even Angels fear Treading Here. - except for John Malkin
Enrolment (Worldcup) contests USA - Pim Ruyter
SouthWest Regionals , Eloy AZ,
That $28 - the last 2 cents
New on the Web site
Motels in Lost Hills
====================
From: "Edmund Liem."
Hello Roger,
can you help me with phone numbers or email adresses from the motels in Lost
Hills ? I like to make reservations.
Thank you.
Edmund
[reply
The Motels at Lost Hills are Motel-6 and Days Inn [was Economy].
The only phone number I have is the latter 805 797 2371.
Both have national reservation services.
We have taken this opportuniy and updated the Lost Hills
information on the web site
end reply]
Rubber and Termites Question
=============================
Does anyone know if methyl bromide used for fumigating
houses to kill termites does bad things to rubber ?
Maybe it will improve some of that November '96 I have ?
gps
===
We are looking at updating the flying site directions
that we have on the Web Site.
We would like directions to any 'permannet' free flight sites.
Seeing the entrances to some sites e.g. Weagel Field near
Sacremento can be hard to find, particularly in the dark we
want to include the Latidude and longitude so a GPS
can be used to find the entrance.
Send information to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Corresondence
=============
Roger,
SW designation for America's Cup:
Normally Texans don't copy anything, but when they not only
take the Southwest Regionals name which has been used by
Arizona for 49 years, but also the name of the thriving
metropolis of Eloy, that's going too far.
Fuel limit in F1C:
Hard to imagine a rule which would obsolete the highly refined
F1C engines faster than a fuel limit. If fuel brew is unrestricted
the Diesel should shine, tho ignition with gasoline would be viable.
Props would grow dramatically without any gearbox.
Pressure would also be an issue, along with topping off prior to
launch.
Measuring volume could get interesting as the obvious device
resembles drug delivery apparatus. With the confiscation
mentality prevalent now one could lose an RV and do 25years
just for officiating an F1C event.
Max and Flyoff History:
AMA introduced the 10 min max in about 1948. Think it was a year
or so til the first official maxout (with a Jasco Floater TLG).
In a few years the max dropped to 6, then 5 min. Still there were
few ties.
FAI picked up the 5 min max around 1950 with 100 meter towlines
and no rubber restriction (wouldn't John Clapp be happy).
Still there were few ties 'til the 3 min max and restrictions
of 1954.
The philosophy was totally opposite to present as few models could
max without help. Idea was to put a limit on "lucky" flights.
Flyoffs were "sudden death" ie 1 unlimited flight.
Maybe it's nostalgia but there's a lot of difference in flying 5 min
maxes with a 3 min airplane than the other way around.
I miss the point of making a Marathon out of a Sprint.
That's my opinion,
Hermann Andresen
Even Angels fear Treading Here.
===============================
"John Malkin"
Roger,
The ongoing Electronic debate re changing the rules for F1
classes, predominantly F1B, really should cease, as it appears to
me to be something of personal push to allow these classes to be
flown in the environs of the debaters.
What I am reading is that the models are outperforming the
areas that they are flown in and the rules should be changed to suit.
I disagree with this approach and regardless of the performance
want the Rules left alone if that is the sole motivating reason.
My feelings on the reduction to 20 grams for rubber is that it
should be used to catapult the model into the air, rather than
powering a propeller! There are plenty of classes available for
those whose flying area is too small to accomodate the F1ABC
classes and I would encourage those people to move into them.
In reading all these requests I have not read much coming out
of the F1A fliers about the size of the flying areas, and yet their
models are performing equally as good as the other classes, with
perhaps the exception of the altitudes gained in climb, but once all
the whirring ceases, the wandering starts, and the gliders appear
to me to have a better glide performance than the other two .
I am coming to the conclusion that as areas diminish that the
fliers use now, in another 10 years or so we will have another
request for a Rules change in order to accomodate the still
diminishing flying sites. None of us like travelling too far to our
favourite site but if that is what is required to fly these classes then
that is what should be done.
John.
PS. Just so readers are aware, my favourite flying/trimming site for
the last 40 odd years has been a Rifle Range which has one
direction of 1100 metres clear and at right angles to this a clear area
of 250 metres. At the back of the range is real Tiger country and the
other directions lead to built up areas.
I adjust my DT to accomodate the vagaries of the wind drift, or
dont fly if I think there is any chance of having to retrieve from
either the Jungle or the housing areas.
Enrolment (Worldcup) contests USA
==================================
From: "Ruijter Pim"
Roger,
I would like to comment on the subject of $28 fee charged to foreign compatitors
taking part on the Isacson Memorial and MAXMEN.
Before the SCAT Newsletter was back on the air (T.G.F.S.F.) I have been in
contact with George Batiuk. As a reaction I wrote a mail to Ian Kaynes (below).
- The Free Flight community in the USA must be aware that they are not the only
civilised (read insured) people in the world. At least ALL Free Flying people
in the Western European world have a World Wide Insurance coupled with their
International Lycence.
- The organisations of European World Cup contests almost all have an insurance
to cover incidents during the contests. The expenses for this insurance is
covered by the enrollment fee. It is my opinion that this is a more democratic
way and prevent discrimination between local and foreign flyers.
To be sure that all compatitors are insured ask for a prove of insurance or
offer a insurance with the insciption for the contest.
A more subtle sulution is to ban Carbon and Metal covered models.appart from
what happen at the Sierra Cup, I have seen 3 other accidents with models flying
into high voltage lines (Poitou last year and twice in Bern).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(mail to Ian Kaynes, dated dec. 15, 1998)
Dear Ian,
In the latest issue of FFN you showed the contestcalendar including the MAXMEN
Feb. 1999 in the USA. As the enrollment fee you indicated $20,00. Do you know
that according to the official papers, foreign compatitors have to pay an
additional fee of $28,00 for AMA contribution (non USA or Canadian flyers).
I have been in (E-mail) contact with George Batiuk on the subject and for the
time being the extra fee is lifted. It will be wise to include in the Worldcup
ruling that discrimination in entryfee is not allowed and that international and
local flyers pay the same entry fee, if not the contest will be taken from the
Worldcup contest calendar.
What I understand from the E-mail conversation with George the additional fee is
imposed by the AMA and probably to cover insurance. So far I know the
International Sporting Lycense we have includes the international insurance, at
least this is true for Western countries.
I suggest that you bring the issue to the attention of the Free Flight community
to publish this in FFN and bring the subject on the agenda of the next CIAM
meeting. Maybe we must include in the ruling that "foreign compatitors must show
proof of international insurance".
As a mather of fact we have seen some expensive
high-voltageline-collision-chain-reactions (nice scrable word) during the last
couple of years!
Best Regards,
Pim Ruyter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Being at the keyboard I take the opportunity to write also a couple of words on
the subject F1B rule change. I fly now a couple of years F1B (my first contests
were flown with 80 gram rubber).
Evulution is a very slow process speeding-up evolution creates deformation and
therefore disappearance of the species. The same is thrue for F1B we may expect
that a large number of modellers quit flying if rules will change dramaticly
because they have to build(buy) complete new models, this is not our objective
(at least this is one way to solve the massive Fly-Off problem).
A better way is to take small steps and therefore reduce the rubber weigth to
30gram as a natural step in our F1B evolution (80-50-40-35-30 gram). On top of
this I suggest to increase the flying time for the first round to 240 sec. like
F1C.
Changing rules for the Junior F1B championships is somewhat different. I agree
with Thermiksence/Thedo Andre (last SCAT News)that the F1B rules must be
simplified by banning all surface movement but rudder and DT, this makes the
entry of Juniors much more simple.
I am curious what is going to happen in Israel where we will fly the F1B W.C.
and European Junior Champ's. I foresee that same models used by senior F1B
flyers are to be used for the Junior E.C.!
Regards, Pim Ruyter (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
SouthWest Regionals , Eloy AZ,
==============================
America's Cup
Full Results
Round ==>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total
F1A Max Time ==>> 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 360 1950
------- ------------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- --------------
Place
1 Parker, Jim 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 255 1845
2 McKeever, Mike 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 252 1842
3 Cowley, Martyn 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 270 1560
4 Spence, Steve 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 202 1492
5 Allnutt, Peter 210 180 180 180 155 180 180 1265
6 VanNest, Brian 210 180 142 180 180 180 180 1252
7 Kowal, Ken 210 164 151 180 180 180 180 1245
8 Puhakka, Risto 210 170 180 180 180 128 180 1228
9 Zink, Don 210 177 168 164 180 131 180 1210
10 Brun, Pierre 210 180 180 180 180 180 52 1162
11 Hines, Lee 198 180 180 180 169 65 180 1152
12 Livatto, Juan 210 167 180 144 86 180 180 1147
13 Parker, Dallas FAI J 210 127 173 55 180 180 180 1105
14 Wieler, Randy 210 155 180 180 180 125 0 1030
15 Bradley, Jim 104 150 180 163 180 180 0 957
16 Davis, Jon 0 0 0 63 91 52 206
Round ==>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total
F1B Max Time ==>> 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 360 1950
------- ------------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- --------------
1 Crowley, Paul 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 340 1930
2 Batiuk, George 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 338 1928
3 Sessums, John 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 330 1920
4 Brush, Al 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 328 1918
5 Fitch, Jerry 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 322 1912
6 Piserchio, Bob 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 295 1885
7 Rohrke, Rich 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 294 1884
8 Pratt, John 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 261 1551
9 Cooney, Ralph 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 255 1545
10 Ghio, Walt 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 225 1515
11 Sessums, Herb 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 168 1458
12 Maves, Roger 198 180 180 180 180 180 180 1278
13 Morrell. Roger 198 180 180 180 180 180 180 1278
14 Saks, David 195 180 180 180 180 180 180 1275
15 Furutani, Norm 210 180 180 180 138 180 180 1248
16 Gibbons, Bill 148 180 180 158 180 180 180 1206
17 Davis, Evan FAI S 117 58 167 99 180 180 180 981
18 Hannah, Bruce 79 180 180 137 180 78 0 834
19 Ulm, Al 0 150 177 140 180 120 25 792
20 Tymchek, Bob 133 180 176 180 5 0 0 674
21 Wood, Richard 210 54 0 0 0 0 0 264
22 Norvall, Larry 210 0 0 0 0 0 0 210
23 Critchlow, Bob 210 0 0 0 0 0 0 210
24 Achterberg, Michael 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Round ==>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total
F1C Max Time ==>> 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 360 1980
------- ------------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- --------------
1 Keck, Ed 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 342 1962
2 Warren, John 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 324 1944
3 Archer, Randy 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 300 1920
4 Joyce, Doug 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 237 1557
5 Kerger, Terry 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 209 1529
6 Parker, Faust 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 155 1475
7 Spence, Henry 224 180 180 180 180 180 180 1304
8 Happersett, Kenny 240 180 180 0 0 0 0 600
Round ==>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Total
F1G Max Time ==>> 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 1020
------- ------------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
1 White, Bob 120 120 120 120 120 180 182 962
2 Norvall, Larry 120 120 120 120 120 180 139 919
3 Wernicke, Ken 120 120 120 120 120 180 83 863
4 Brocks, Peter 120 118 120 120 120 598
5 Nelson, Elmer 120 114 120 120 120 594
6 Bashaw, Marv 120 120 120 120 105 585
7 Emery, Jack 120 110 120 115 120 585
8 Klintworth, Phil 120 120 112 107 120 579
9 Hannah, Bruce 120 118 88 120 120 566
10 Wood,Richard 120 120 120 78 120 558
11 Critchlow, Bob 96 88 120 114 120 538
12 Peterson, Alan 120 93 120 92 110 535
13 McDaniel, Jim 100 91 100 111 120 522
14 Fruciano, Mike 0 60 65 120 60 305
Round ==>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Total
F1H Max Time ==>> 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 1020
------- ------------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
1 Cowley, Martyn 120 120 120 120 120 600
2 Brun, Pierre 120 120 120 111 120 591
3 Van Nest, Brian 120 120 120 120 61 541
4 Ghio, Walt 105 112 120 103 54 494
5 Smith, Norm 65 120 68 120 120 493
6 Zink, Don 120 105 120 90 47 482
7 Puhakka, Risto 109 100 120 52 66 447
Round ==>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Total
F1J Max Time ==>> 120 120 120 120 120 180 240 1020
------- ------------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
1 Augustus, Bruce 120 120 120 120 120 180 159 939
2 Happersett, Kenny 120 120 95 120 120 575
3 Parker, Faust 120 120 120 120 120 140 740
4 Spence, Steve 120 120 120 120 120 180 169 949
It looks to me as if there is a mistake in F1J and Steve Spence should
be in first place.
Other comments.
In F1A a very good showing by Ken Koval, a comparative new comer to
the FAI scene, flying with his own Electronic Timer.
F1G is still as hard fought as ever. Bob White has a new airplane
but still favors his Beau Coupe design. Looking at the results
you can see why.
For the 'old timers' it was good to see a Groovy Tuna in F1B again
this time in the hands of Evan Davis [son of '70s team member Jon]
flying his first F1B contest.
That $28 - the last 2 cents
===========================
In talking to Carl Maroney of the AMA, he explained that in
the case of the biggest claim involving a visiting flyer,
who had his own insurance, the AMA paid the claim and then
had to use a lawyer to recover the money from the flyer's
insurance company. In this instance the AMA recovered only
one third of the amount paid out after expenses. Had the
AMA not paid the claim the flyer could have been involved
in complex personal litigation.
Because of the liability laws in the United States, the
fact that the AMA is self-insured, and the difficulty of
recovering the money, the AMA requires that visitors have
AMA insurance. The contest director of an event in the US
is required to collect this money and can be sanctioned if
he does not do so.
While there are a number of issues, such as $28 being
somewhat steep for someone flying in one event and that
being an AMA member without the magazine has little benefit
for a visitor, we can see the AMA's point of view.
In theory it would be possible for us to increase the entry
fee so we could take out a special event insurance as is
done in contests in some other countries, but that is not
the way our National Aero Club works.
The AMA has made it clear to us that our visitors must have
AMA insurance to fly in an AMA sanctioned event. We realize
that this may be a surprise to some visitors and we want
them to have an enjoyable time. For this reason the
organizers of the 1999 Max Men 14 Rounder will subsidize
the visiting sportsmen by paying this fee on their behalf,
this year on a one time basis. This membership is valid for
the calendar year and the sportsman should retain it if he
intends to return for the Sierra Cup or other events later
in the year.
Correspondence on this issue is closed.
New on the Web Site
===================
We have corrected a few dates on the America's Cup calendar, added
addresses, e-mail etc. The CUFFMAC [California] Calendar in now on line.
...............
Roger Morrell
