SCAT Electronic News May 25 1999
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- Category: Archive 1999
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SCAT Electronic News May 25 1999
Table of Contents
=================
Empire State FF Champs - Ellis
Now we have a Musican on Noise - King
Just a [lateral] thought - Furutani
More sound on Noise - Haught
F1C and the Noise issue - Ackery
Changes are Good
AeroVironment on the News !
Empire State Free Flight Champs dates and details
=================================================
from: Art Ellis
The final plans for the contest are set. It will be help August 27 - 29
at the Historical Avaition Field in Geneseo, New York. I will be CD for
the FAI events. Contact details are: 84 Denison Drive, Guilford, CT
06437, 203-453-1850, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. A,B,C will be held on
Saturday and mini events on Sunday. 1 1/2 hour over lapping rounds
starting at 8:00 AM.
This dates conflict with another America's Cup event Chuck Markos is
running at the AMA site in Muncie. Neither date can be moved - to bad.
Hopefully in future years we will be able to avoid these conflicts.
Everyone in the East is excited about FAI being added to this long
standing event. This year marks the 30th birthday of the contest.
best regards!!
A Musican on Noise
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Hi Roger,
thank you for your kind words about the chat with Tapio about F1B. I hope
the dialogue continues.
I was interested to read Terry's piece about damage to the hearing from
Power models. I have a slight defficiency in the upper partials of my
hearing. Although I fly F1B, I love the sound of F1C. I also love the
sound of a Formula One car going past me at 160 mph, 15ft away at
Silverstone, (That is real noise, 17,000rpm with NO silencer!!!)
However, I attribute my slight hearing problem to the biggest noise of all,
sitting in the saxophone section of a big band with 5 high note trumpet
players screaming away behind me and the cymbals ringing in my ears, night
after night, for many years !!!! I worked with Maynard Fergusen, Stan
Kenton's high note virtuoso, for a couple of years. The worst, though was
working with the Charlie Watts Big Band, 35 mad musicians, and THREE
DRUMMERS !!!!! The funny thing is I enjoyed every minute of it!!!
I bet Hardy Broderson knows what I am on about!!! (Thank you Hardy for all
your help when I visited Kansas City!!!)
Keep up the good work Roger
Peter King
[ for those who do not know Peter is a World Class Jazz Musican !
Peter I understand that you do not notice the noise if you like
it so that's how your hear can get damaged. Now I'm not sure if liking
the noise applies to the F1 at Silverstone or your fellow musicans !]
Just a thought
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Rog,
Tom Laird and I were discussing the relative merits of Bruce Augustus'
relatively simple F1J vs. Bill Lynch's hi-tech and how both are very
competitive yet very different. The same thing is happening in coupe, Bob
White and his locked -up F1G's have proven to be very tough to beat.
If we were to raise the wing loading/minimum weights on the mini-events, it
would allow us to incorporate more functions/gadgets to improve
performance. This is what we have done with F1B. I remember our discussion
on the last rule change when rubber was reduced and airframe increased, we
talked about batteries could be bigger a servo(or two!) could be used as an
actuator, more functions could be added etc.
Here's the point- What if F1b rules reflected a REDUCTION in airframe
weight. Flyers could choose between a lighter, minimum gadget plane ala
Augustus/White or continue with the current trend to optimize performance
with multiple functions ala Lynch/Sweet G.
All this is off the top of my head and I'm making some assumptions (maybe
false) that Augustus/White are flying lighter wing loadings than
Lynch/Sweet G. It also reflects my personal desire to cut wood instead of
carbon fiber.
In the mean time I will continue trying to figure out how my PalmPilot works!
-Norm Furutani
[No problem with the PP Norm, its just like a MAC !]
Thoughts on engine noise
========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Interesting discussion my man Mr. Shailor has entered into about engines and
noise.
One of the main points here is that "noise" as opposed to "sound" is in the
ear of the beholder. That's why the guy who runs his chain saw at 6 p.m. can
get away with it, but I can't break in my Cyclon in my backyard. And that's
why sites are lost. What we view as "sound" is objectionable "noise" to
others, just as I don't like that guy with the chain saw interrupting my
supper.
Me, I LOVE the sound of engines that really turn up; give me an .06 or .15
doing 27K+ rpm and I'm a happy guy. I just happen to love that squeal, and
fortunately it hasn't affected my hearing (yet?), even though I do not wear
ear protection. (Then again, I love the sound of Dyna-Jets, too.)
But I can see where "normal" people wouldn't care for this tone--because it's
unusual. Oftentimes at the AMA site, I'll be test-flying from the south end
of the field, and it's fairly close to the houses that border the site; I
have wondered if the neighbors knew what they were getting into when we moved
there a few years ago.
I do think that some sort of muffler will eventually be mandatory, to lower
the dB level a bit--whether that be "90 at nine" or something similar. The
biggest problem I see, besides the potential power increase, is that by
solving one problem, we make the models even more difficult to time (engine
run) than they already are.
Perhaps one of the smoke-type systems will be required, but at any rate, the
thought of trying to pick out a particular muffled F1C or F1J engine note
during the typical multiairplane launch is daunting indeed.
Jim Haught
F1C and the Noise issue
=======================
Author: David Ackery, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
This issue has seen some comments in SCAT News. (Martin Dilly, Robert
Herzog, Bill Shailor, John Buskell).
Noise and F/F is an issue that continues to re occur at CIAM level,
being raised by people for whom noise is a major problem in their
country. They have difficulty with flying sites (or perhaps more
precisely no flying sites) and hence F1C struggles to exist in some
parts of the world.
(We should perhaps acknowledge that F1C is a challenging class and noise
is just one issue when it comes finding new participants).
These proposals for noise reduction are strongly opposed by some people
and so far any proposals to CIAM have not been successful.
(I notice that in this recent thread the strong opposition to noise
restrictions has come from two countries where F1C has strong support,
good numbers of fliers, and they have access to flying sites where noise
is not a problem. Perhaps we need to look at ways to allow more people
to take part in this class by allowing them to use fields where noise is
an issue.)
The recent proposals to CIAM were referred to the FF subcommittee for
their consideration, and it is clear that noise is a recurrent issue
over many years that does not go away. While it is may be true that a 5
second engine run is a much lesser problem than one of say 5 or 10
minutes (C/L or R/C) it is all under the same heading of noise.
My personal view is that,
a.. noise levels are too high for the good health and safety of
fliers and those nearby (timekeepers, spectators, officials), noise at
this level causes permanent hearing loss
b.. if noise levels were lower more flying sites would be available
c.. F1C is a class that needs to find ways to encourage more
participants, without persuading existing fliers to give up
How to do this?
Suggestion - change the rules to allow those who want to, to legally use
mufflers.
In this case a muffler is defined in some way as a device that reduces
noise, but does not increase the power of the motor. (Write the rule to
say directly what you need).
You do not write a specification that defines a metal box of certain
dimensions, and then hope that it reduces noise to the level you would
like, while hoping that people do not find a way to make it into a tuned
pipe.
The present F1C rule that bans all exhaust extensions is there to
exclude tuned pipes, and we all agree that we do not need that, but it
is unnecessarily restrictive and there is no reason why we could replace
that rule with something that was intelligently written and could serve
the needs of the sport, rather than be an anchor around our neck.
At the moment people are yelling at each other with points of view that
are a long way apart, is there a way that we can advance this issue and
find a way to give everyone what they need ?. Does anyone else have any
good ideas ?.
Note - I am a current member of the CIAM F/F subcommittee, and for what
it is worth I do sometimes fly F1C and have an Astrostar 600 (K&B 3.5) =
for those other events.
David Ackery
New Zealand
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Changes are good
================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I have been in the hobby of model flying since the mid 60's. You will
never see my name in club directories because the clubs were too
political for me. But since SCAT came along, I read alot of the problems
that go with organization. I know that alot of you good f/f people are
going to say I have no right to my opinion on this subject, but here it
is anyway. As long as aircraft are flying., I feel that all gadgets
.devises and designs should be explored. That is part of aviation. I am
a 20 year USAF retiree, and feel that if aviation of any type does not
advance in the tech world, we are in fact doing a mis-justice to
mankind, no matter how small you think it is. Remember, it was not so
long ago that people said we could not put a man on the moon. I 'm sorry
if I have angered some with this comment, but I wanted you all to know
that you are not just modelers . but you are in fact the future ideas of
our world. Jim from CA.
AeroVironment on the News !
===========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
NBC Channel 4 News will be broadcasting a news item on
AeroVironment's mini and micro UAV's tomorrow May 26th, during Paul
Moyer's News program at 5pm - and for those outside LA it might be
picked up by the network (although timing would be more uncertain).
Martyn Cowley
.......................................
Roger Morrell
