SCAT Electronic News May 24 1999
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SCAT Electronic News May 24 1999
Table of Contents
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Composites Video - Help!!
SCAT Web Site and Electronic News
Contributions
A Drag Racer on Noise [ .. and I thought they were on Nitro !]
Closed Loop controls revisited
Re: Mufflers revisited
Does AAES see closed loop devices as positive evoloution?
Remaining America's Cup Events
A couple of items from the NFFS
Composites Video - help !!
================
Sometime back we recorded some video at the composites workshop we
conducted. We had a plan for edit this and producing a video. Unfortunately
these plans fell through and we have rather dropped the ball. We are
looking for help in editing this information so we can get it out. Is
there any reader that would like to help with this ? .. if so e-mail us at
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
SCAT Web Site and Electronic News
=================================
From time to time people have offered to assist financially in the SCAT Web
Site and Electronic news. I have put them off, partly because I do not
want people to feel obliged that they have to contribute , and I wanted to
feel free to send SCAT Electronic News to some I though 'ought' to receive
it [e.g. Ian Kaynes or any others of you who suddenly started getting SEN
in your e-mail box] without that person thinking they were being asked for
money. The reason why we do this is to promote Free Flight in general and
FAI Free Flight in particular. We Free Flighters are not as many as we
used to be so communication is more important than ever. However it does
cost us quite a bit more than 'normal' Internet access to provide this
service. None of the expense for the Web Site or Electronic news come out
SCAT club funds. If you would like to help you can send a donation to
Roger Morrell, 1916 B Gates Ave, Redondo Beach, CA 90278. USA or give it to
him at a contest. A good amount is whatever you pay for printed
newsletter.
Contributions
=============
What is more important than money is words. So please contribute with ..
event information, results, new product stories, discussion on rules and
technical issues .. and anything else relevant. We want to know what is
going on in places other than the US - who is on what team for
the up coming world Champs for example , and how did the selection contest go ?
We always seem to get involved with discussions on the rules but not enough
on technical and other similar issues. One of the most interesting
outcomes from Joe Ed's mail was discussion by Tapio Linkosalo and Peter
King on why the modern F1B flies so well. We need more of that kind of
information. That was why I was looking at including attachments so we
could include sketches and photos.
A Drag Racer on Noise
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger,
Just a quick note about the noise and muffler issue. Being an old drag
racer I have to admit that some degree of noise is acceptable, but I
will have to agree the big motors in modern gas models and the high
pitched F1C motors can be painfully noisy. I am a mechanical engineer
and have worked in acoustical noise with line printers as part of my
career. It is a documented fact that when you get above a certain level
then extended exposure will definitely affect your hearing and cause
hearing loss.
What amazes me is how many other wise intelligent people will run and
tune their motors without hearing protection. Noise is a function of
distance and the person closest to motor needs the most protection.
Since I love and fly mostly power models I wear ear plugs at a contest
and use shooters ear muffs over them on all of the hotter motors.
I am sure I will get some flak on this but If you don't think it matters
then ask a person that has lost part of his hearing.
Thermals,
Terry Thorkildsen
Closed Loop controls revisited
==============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger, I'm very sorry to hear that you and Matt feel that banning closed
loop systems is a retrograde step. I've mulled over your remarks for a day
or two - they made me think about what it is that I value about free flight.
I think its this:
[Editorial explanation
Martin, part of the issue was not necesarily the banning of the controls
but rather the mannner in which it was done. i.e. immediatley
without advertising the proposed change and with out a delay
period like the change in the weight of the rubber.
For what ever its worth I believe the implementation to be quite
difficult and there to be a significant likely hood of a device
that say optomised the decalage producing a non optimum performance.
I would like to produce an electronic version of George Xenakis'
TART system. This is a system when the rudder setting is related
to the [rubber] motor torque. I understand that I can do that
withing the 'closed loop' because this is not an aerodynamic
sensor and it is in really is one way.
Similarily I would like to put a sensor on my F1A timer that
'helped' detect the correct moment to bunt. This also would
be permitted because there is not closed loop i.e. self correcting
action.
To do both of these would require a lot of work... and I would be
somewhat un happy if they were banned in the same peremptory
fashion as the 'closed loop'.
Back sometime a ago when we originally had this discussion, some section
of the population indicated that what George Xenakis did mechanically
was OK but it was not OK for me to do it electronically. I do understand
why. So my concern is that this group could have the rule changed
again.
I commend the people who did the closed rule because they did not single
out electronic devices.
... now back to Martin..]
The essential element of Free Flight is that all flight conditions are set
before the model is launched; if you like, the whole art is in presetting a
model so that it can find its way in all sorts of air without further
assistance. This way of thinking embraces everything from fixed surface
models to state of the art Andriukov Wakes and MKS electronic F1As. It makes
a Free Flight model quite distinct from any other type of model aircraft,
which is as it should be.
On the other hand, I have a big problem distinguishing between a free flight
model with closed loop controls and an auto-pilot or gyro stabilised radio
model which happens to be receiving no control inputs at the moment.
I would like to preserve the distinctive nature of Free Flight.
However, I think theres a place to introduce a new form of competition class
for autonomous models. As a starter suggestion these would be electric
models with no external control inputs or downlinks. The competition would
be for a hand launched model that would attempt to make a max before spot
landing within 5 m of a radio beacon. This gives enormous development scope
- not only autopilot functions, but power management schemes, thermal
hunting and navigation/homing abilities would be required to say nothing of
the requirement for real-time flight planning and competition tactical
planning. These could be enormously interesting models to develop, but would
not be Free Flight.
Thermals
Martin
London, UK
Re: Mufflers revisited
======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I'd just like to add a word here.
John Buskell comes from a family of long-time power fliers. His father,
Pete, was one of the best known names in UK flying; not knowing about him is
like saying you never heard of Gerry Ritz.
[ yes I thought I remeber the name. I think he had a FAI power model
with an ED Racer, I never could figure in those days why his did so
well! Must have been the noise ]
Also, as a some time power flier I have to disagree about models getting
noisier - there's no question that a Nelson 15 is considerably louder than a
G15. You can't spin a prop 40% faster and generate twice the horsepower
without making more noise.
Now, I would be pleased to muffle my engines because I would prefer to fly
without the bother of ear defenders; not wearing them with a 130+ dB noise
source less than half a metre from your head is just plain stupid. However
there are two problems associated with mufflers:
(1) as Doug said, its important not to obsolete current engines (at least)
and preferably not to obsolete existing models either. Either could cost
participation.
(2) its equally important to ensure that the muffler can't be used to get a
power increase or we'll be staring at a 3 second engine run before we know
it.
Martin Gregorie
London, UK
Does AAES see closed loop devices as positive evoloution?
=========================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Does "the positive evolution of the design, fabrication and flying
strategies of Multi-function VIT freeflight model" include developing
closed loop control devices? This was recently outlawed in all but F1E
(magnet steered gliders), but I wonder if this was a premature decision.
Magnet steering in other classes might permit use of smaller fields.
I look forward to AAES's reply. Thanks and good luck.
Jim Thornbery
[Jim
Interesting slant that some of this stuff might help the
participation on FF. Another approach that
people had tossed around that is on a similar vein was
after d/t put the model into a very shallow dive on a compass
heanding back home. The purpose
of the shallow dive would increase penetration so the model would
go back upwind. A similar effect could be obtained by having a GPS
on the model. Note that these would be counter -productive in a typical
contest situation where you have to drift with the wind otherwise you would
fly out of the thermal you had so carefully chosen]
Remaining America's Cup Events
==============================
29 - 30 MAY BIG AL'S SHOOT-OUT - LOST HILLS, CA
DOUG GALBREATH 3408 TOPSAIL PL DAVIS, CA 95616
19 - 20 JUN FIESTA OF FIVE FLAGS/ TOM MC LAUGHLAN - PENSACOLA, FLA
BOB JUNK 984 WILLIAMSDITCH RD CANTONMENT, FL 32533 (904) 968-9619
26 -27 JUN INTERCITY FAI - MUNCIE , IN
BOB SIFLEET RD #3 BOX 56 GLEN ROCK, PA 17327 (717) 235-2421
3 - 4 JUL MAGNIFICENT MOUNTAIN MEN 14 ROUND FAI - DENVER, CO no Mini events
BILL GIBBONS 10950 W. UNION HILLS #2021 SUN CITY, AZ 85373 (602) 815-7526
3 - 4 JUL TEXAS CLOUD CLIMBERS - ALLEN, TX
HENRY SPENCE 1111 COUNTRY CLUB CT MANSFIELD, TX 76063 (817) 473-1673
TBD US OUTDOOR CHAMPS/NATS - MUNCIE, IN TBD
14 - 15 AUG NORTHWEST FREE FLIGHT CHAMPS - TANGENT, OR Mini events only
LELAND SCHROEDER 30099 CANYON VIEW DR LEBANON, OR 97355 (541) 258-3366
20 - 22 AUG EMPIRE STATE FF CHAMPS - TBD, NY
BROOKS GOODENOUGH
21 - 22 AUG FAI INVITATIONAL - CHICAGO AERONUTS - MUNCIE, IN no Mini events
CHUCK MARKOS 655 CARLISLE AV DEERFIELD, IL 60015 (847) 982-7681
TBD CIA HOOSIER CUP - MUNCIE, IN
MARK WOOD 5923 HOPI RD DANVILLE, IN 46122 (313) 745-6770
4 - 5 SEP AUTUMN CUP - BASE BORDEN, ONTARIO, CANADA no Mini events
JERRY MC GLASHAN R.R. 2, 6 HARVEST DR NIAGARA-ON-THE-LAKE,
ONTARIO, CANADA L0S 1J0 (905) 468-1829
4 -5 SEP WESTERN FAI CHALLENGE - HARTS LAKE - FT LEWIS, WA
MIKE ROBERTS 2435 53RD SW SEATTLE, WA 98116 (206) 937-2740
18 -19 SEP SOUTHWEST FAI CHALLENGE - BOULDER CITY, NV
JON ZEISLOFT 4620 VICTORIA BEACH WAY LAS VEGAS, NV 89130 (702) 656-3850
18 -19 SEP DYNASTY CUP - DENVER, CO
KEN PHAIR 3022 S. YARNELL CT DENVER, CO 80231 (303) 750-6320
9 - 10 OCT CALIFORNIA FAI - LOST HILLS, CA
JUAN LIVOTTO 13212 LAKE ST LOS ANGELES, CA (310) 391-5986
16 - 17 OCT SIERRA CUP - SACRAMENTO, CA
KEN OLIVER 2213 EL CEJO CIRCLE RANCHO CORDOVA, CA 95670 (916) 863-2017
30 - 31 OCT AUTUMN CUP - SEGUIN, TX
REID SIMPSON 9207 HAZELHURST AUSTIN, TX 78729 (512) 258-4793
20 - 21 NOV PATTERSON FAI CHALLENGE - LOST HILLS, CA
DON LEATH 38104 HIGH COUNTRY RD PALMDALE, CA 93551-4415 (661) 273-8668
? NOV SKYSCRAPERS ANNUAL - MARYLAND
ARAM SCHLOSBERG 79-02 212th STREET BAYSIDE, NY 11364 (718) 479-0478
31 DEC- 2 JAN KING ORANGE INTL - PALM BAY, FLA
JIM BRADLEY 1337 PINE SAP CT ORLANDO, FL 32825 (407) 277-9132
A couple of items from the NFFS
===============================
Author Bob Stalick.
1. Flying Models Magazine has informed me that they are interested in
publishing several free flight duration articles every year. This is welcome
news for all of us who support this publication. The details of the
submissions are: the subject can be rubber, glider or gas; the article needs
to be around 1200 words; the photos need to show some construction details as
well as the completed model; and the full sized sketch needs to be in rather
complete pencil quality. Approximately 10 to 12 useable photos should be
included. Since the readership of the magazine tends to be less "cutting
edge", high tech models are probably less apt to be accepted than more common
style designs. Nostalgia Gas and Limited Power models could be a good
starting place as well as simple F1J types. For further information, contact
Larry Kruse at 1204 S. Mansfield Dr., Stillwater, OK 74074. Phone: (405)
372-2538 (home ).
2. NFFS Sympo Presale can qualify as a 501 c-3 deduction. The cost of the
upcoming 1999 Symposium publication will be $25.00 plus postage. For those of
you who have already sent in your presale contribution, you may wish to note
that anything beyond the $25.00 cost can be considered a tax deduction for
your next income tax statement. For those who have not yet sent in your
contribution, please do it ASAP and get your name mentioned as a contributor
plus you will receive the new Symposium as soon as it is off the press. Send
to Bill Vanderbeek at 13300 Simon Lane, Los Altos Hills, CA 94022. If you did
not get the presale letter from Bill, then you are not currently a member;
however that does not keep you from contributing. The minimum presale
contribution is $35, but most members are sending in more.
Don't forget to visit the NFFS web site at freeflight.org
........................
Roger Morrell
