SCAT Electronic News 29 Sept 1999

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Category: Archive 1999

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SCAT Electronic News 29 Sept 1999

Table of Contents
=================
Babe Bee Event - Jahnke
SCATermites! - Hines
More RCDT - Markos
MORE FUEL ON THE R/CD/T FIRE - O'Reilly
Luddites - Rozelle
Inland Tiapan and other creepy crawlies - Brooks
Who Kares - Wood
Back to the lawyers  - BlackMagic

Babe Bee Event
==============

Roger,

I would like to update readers on the progress made in developing an event
for Baby Bee 049 engines.

Discussion of the possibility of such an event moved over to the NFFS web
page in the Beginners section.  Several modelers helped refine some
parameters for the event:  200g minimum weight, 40" max dimemsions, single
port Baby Bee 049 engine, 6-3 prop.  It was left open as to whether engine
timers or fuel metering would be used to control engine run, and to engine
run times.

It was clear that the next step was to build a model, which both Bob Stalick
and I did.  Both of us built simple models requiring the level of skill
needed to build a P-30.

Bob's model has a 6" x 40" (240 sq. in.) wing and a 16"x3" stab.  He built
two fuselages, one with fuel metering and one with a hard tank and timer.
This is what Bob said about flying the model using the timer/tank fuselage:

"I went out two days ago and flew the Bee-40. The engine I used had a Cox 6x3
grey prop on it and the model gets out and moves pretty well. It weighs in at
just under 200 grams (actually, it weighs 186). I think the engine run
question may be one that needs some research....15 seconds for a two minute
max is a long time, and the model gets very high in that time. 12 seconds
might be better or even 10."

A few weeks earlier he did some engine testing and got about 14 -14.2k rpm
with a 6-3 prop, on 35% nitro fuel.

My model (see attached photos) has a tapered wing with an average chord of
7" (280 sq. in.) and a 17"x4" stab.  The model weighs 198 grams with a
Seelig DT timer.  I used the Seelig because the model needed the weight and
because I do not like using fuses.  Had the model been heavier I would have
used a button timer.  The engine is a hodge podge of old and newer parts
from engines purchased at garage sales (most significant is the old style
head).  I have no rpm data on my engine.  The total cost of my engine was
approx. $4, but a new Baby Bee goes for $30.

I used a black Cox 6-3 for my flights and like Bob found the model to
perform better than expected, much like a 1/2 A Nostalgia model.  Though I
did not time engine runs, it was clear that a 10 or 12 second run would be
sufficient.  Glide performance was very good in spite of the flat bottom
section.

As a rubber flier I must say that flying this model was even more fun than I
expected.  I had an easier time trimming the model than in earlier attempts
at 1/2A and had a much easier time with the 049 engine than with the Pee Wee
020 (once a needle setting was found on the 049 it would start on the first
or second flip of the prop).

I encourage others to try the event.  Check the NFFS web page in a few days
to see the updated discussion of the event.  Watch for a postal contest in
the near future.  I would like help in collecting a list of existing designs
which would fit the event, i.e. spans and fuslage lengths under 40".

Ross Jahnke

[Ross's photos are attached]


SCATermites!
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Roger,
The fertile mind of our good friend Paul Lagan has concocted(ref SEN 28Sept99)
 one of the most hilarious sobriquets I have ever heard for our 
little band of believers. 
                          "SCATermites" INDEED!
As I reflect on the fact that many of the non-Luddites members use very 
little "dead
tree wood" in their aircraft anymore, there would seem to be a need for
caution among
the Luds to ensure that the local bug exterminator inspection contracts
are kept current!
Certainly no one(with the possible exception of N. Furutani) wants to 
see Old Al's
Gollywock disintegrate in midair!
Could this be the first official act of the Luds Sgt at Arms, 
Mr. R.P. White, to guard against the SCATermites?
I am your humble servant, falling about with laughter,
LEE HINES

More RCDT
=========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

 Two points about RCDT in F1 models and other FF.   If the model doesn't
 meet the specifications in the rule book for its class, then it can't
 compete in that class.  Since RC is currently not permitted in FF models
 (except for F1C DT) any model with RC function is, by definition, not a FF
 model....period.  This is why  2.55 cc is not an F1C engine and why an F1A
 is something else if it weighs only 409 grams.  As an active CD, I would
 take the conservative position and not allow RCDT.  As a contestant, I
 would protest its use.The second point is in application of the
 technology:  If RCDT were approved for FF models, then provisions to
 prohibit its use for a competitive advantage must be incorporated.
 Activation of the DT before the max time to make the chase shorter for
 recovery of the model to fly the next round most certainly is a
 competitive advantage, and that's how Ken wants to use it!  I have
 "short-fused" my DT on purpose hoping to avoid an unpleasant model
 recovery situation, but since the timing was set before launch I take the
 risk of missing the max.   This is a much different situation than making
 the decision to DT after the model is flying so the flyer can make sure
 his model is on the ground at just over 3 minutes when a preset DT might
 result in over 10 minutes total in the air.  Another abuse of the
 technology to provide a competitive advantage would be to DT after a bad
 launch to get the model down before 20 seconds had elapsed in order to
 obtain a second attempt.  Such abuses are not likely to be policed
 effectively by the contest management, as Ian K suggests, since their
 applications would not constitute a pattern, but would happen only as
 "needed" and be open to interpretation.   One solution would be to have
 the contestant with an RCDT-equipped model declare his intended DT time
 before making an official attempt.  A deviation from that declaration
 would result in a zero score.  This would take the onus of decision off
 the contest management to provide a clear-cut ruling.  
 

 

MORE FUEL ON THE R/CD/T FIRE
============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


We have kicked around the question of R/CD/T at the NFFS Directors.  Some 
(hopefully) meaningful discussion has emerged but no action.

Getting the FAI rules changed to accommodate is a detail..... a necessary 
detail, but still a detail.  Also, the technology already exists in the form 
of the Koster system.  The problem is (based on fairly reliable hearsay) that 
it costs upwards of $2000 per competitor.

As I understand it, the technology takes the form of marrying the technology 
of the remote auto door unlock to the old technology of the ordinary R/C set. 
 The way to make it happen is to get the price down.  The way to make THAT 
happen is to convince the Futabas, Airtronics, etc. of the world that there 
is a market here & sell them on the task of developing & marketing the 
hardware.  They've already got the carrier part of the puzzle.  What they 
have to do is add the encoding capability to that which already exists.

As far as selling them on the idea, it is a simple fact that most of the R/C 
people (including sportfliers) would benefit mightily from this technology.  
It would remove the burden of those onerous freq. control systems that force 
everyone to queue up & wait for his freq. to come free.  If you are talking 
about creating a unit for the FF market, the numbers to make the project 
ecoonomically attractive are not there, even worldwide.  But if all of R/C is 
included, no problem with the numbers.

As for the question of R/C engine runs, now we're REALLY getting into the 
area of R/C FF which esthetically offends my purist soul.....but I have no 
doubt it would happen.

Jim O'Reilly

[Jim - I have not discussed $$ with Ken Bauer but think that it is unlikely
the price will be in the $2K range !  I made a decision to sell my
Electronic timers at a lower price [$100 for the first and $60
for subsequent, with servo $20-30 and battey extra]
than most because I wanted them to used by more flyers and
was not interested on recouping by development cost.
The RC DT goes with an Electronic Timer
as it needs a meachnaical way of activating the D/T. My timers
are aimed at the F1 flyer but I am working on a lower cost
device that would be good for the FAI mini and AMA events.]
 
Luddites
========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I have observed ongoing use of the term Luddite with amusement, and wonder if
anyone might be interested in its actual origin. (Incidentally, I learned this
during a course in textile history, required in my pursuit of a textile
engineering degree.)
For what little it may be worth: The term Luddite came about due to a guy named
Ned Ludd. HIs claim to fame: leading a group of British textile workers in riots
between 1811 and 1816. Their mission was to destroy labor-saving textile
machinery. Their erroneous erroneous notion was that destroying the then-modern
machinery would preserve featherbedding employment in British textiles and
thus delay the Industrial Revolution.

Walt Rozelle

 
Inland Tiapan and other creepy crawlies
=======================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

  The Discovery Channel tells me that Australia is home to the world's five
most deadly snakes.  The champ seems to be the inland tiapan, which has
enough venom in one bite to kill one hundred people.
   Is Waga  Waga in their range and how likely is one to come upon a member
of the runnerups' species?



Who Kares
=========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Hi Roger,
Who KARES? Wood has been both singular "Wood" and plural "Woods" in the same 
report without a response.
Is it worse to accidentally misspell a persons name or to do it on purpose?  
The S in Charles S. Markos must stand for sensitive.  Your attack brings up 
the sensitive father and the defensive father in me.  Charles not everyone is 
as perfect as we are.   Even our kids!  
Charles I think it is more important that Mark got it done and got your place 
correct than how he spelled you name.  So, congratulations on you win!
Roger I am suprised that you jumped on the bandwagon with the "Mr Woot 
yourselt"  attempt at humor.  However, the suggestion to take it up with Mark 
directly was correct in my opinion. 
Your friend,
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

[The main purpose of SEN is to spread news about our hobby/sport.
Some of us, including me make grammatical and spelling mistakes. We
also make mistakes with people's name, in particular those
from the non-English speaking world.  Some people are sensitive about
this and we should make a best effort to get it right. As a matter
of common courtesy we should not deliberately spell peoples names
incorrectly when we know that they are sensitive about that.

But we should not let worry about that get in they way of exchanging
information. There is no way that I can edit the material to correct
regular spelling and grammar in addition to proper nouns - and
get this stuff out as fast as you want it, or in fact get it out at
all]
 

Back to the lawyers 
===================

FRom: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

There appear to be two schools of thought emerging on the RC DT.
One says that even having this device in a F1A or F1B is against
the rules so that sportsman should be disqualified ....

So in that case ..

The Danish timer as used by Koster et al in F1C has the capability
to extend the D/T. This is used to stop
the model from D/Ting on to some undesirable natural obstacle [trees,
Houses, lake ..] and let it D/T on o a field.

This is in addtion to what is permitted in the rules ? Should
they be permitted to use it ? or fly the airplane with it on board ?

Is is OK to use it if the timer has an external switch with 
positions labelled [for example] FAI and TEST. Where the FAI
position disables any non-permitted feature ?


Is it OK to disable these features by means of a software switch that is
in the timer firmware [i.e. a program option] ?

Note that the offical would be able to verify that the feature
was disabled by activating the RC DT controls and seeing it happen
or not happen.





...............
Roger Morrell 

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