SCAT Electronic News July 19 1998
- Details
- Category: Archive 1998
- Hits: 1135
SCAT Electronic News July 19 1998
Table of Contents
=================
NFFS Symos - old and new - Bob Stalick
Clarifications from Ian Kaynes
1999 World Champs - via Victor Stamov
1998 Sympo
Politics of Electronic Timers - Fantham's Opus
SCAT Saturday
For sale
NFFS Sympos
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject : Re: SCAT Electronic news 17 July
Hi, Roger:
I believe the 1996 Sympos are still available from Fred Terzian. The cost to
non-members is $24 plus postage. You might contact Fred to get the exact
overseas shipping price.
I also talked to Doug Galbreath earlier this week, and the 1998 Sympo is ready
for shipping. Everyone who is a patron can expect to receive his in the mail
sometime during the next week or so. The 1998 Sympo will also be for sale at
the USOC in Muncie beginning on July 27. See Hank Nystrom at the NFFS booth
for copies.
The cost of this 198 page classic is $25 plus $4 postage in the US. Non-NFFS
members will need to add another $4.00. Order directly from Fred Terzian at
4858 Moorpark Ave., San Jose, CA 95129. Fred will be able to ship the 1998
Sympo by around August 1.
A reminder for all your readers is that Fred is handing the NFFS Publications
duties off to Bob McLinden effective January 1, 1999. In the meantime, an
orderly transfer of old publications is underway. More information about
contacting Bob as the time draws nearer to his taking over the Publications
duties.
Thanks for sharing this information with your readers.
Bob Stalick
Clarifications from Ian Kaynes
------------------------------
Roger
1) When Israel proposed the 99 World Champs to CIAM in March 1997 the dates
were Aug 24-30, with alternates Aug 10-16. There has been some discussion
on schedule of World Champs plus the Junior Euro Champs (which are being
run at same venue) but I have heard no suggestion to move outside this hot
August date range.
2) Re Martin Gregorie comments on Euro Champs. They have been around longer
than Martin suggests. I flew F1B in 1970 Europa Cup which was also billed
as first Euro Champs F1A and F1B. The first F1A/B/C Euro Champs with all 3
classes together was Germany in 1978, certainly the status was well
established by the time I next flew, at Mostar in 1980. Before 1978 the F1C
had been run as an independent Europa Cup and also gained Euro Champs title
in about 1970.
3) The FAI General section of sporting code (3.5.4) defines continental
regions - Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania, North America, South America. The
Europe definition specifically includes Israel and Turkey and excludes
Iran.... The definitions are followed by a let-out that changes to the
groupings may be requested for any specific continental champs.
Furthermore, (3.1.5) beside Continental Champs there is also the category
of championships for other regional groupings, which may be within
continents or trans-continental groupings.
Thus anything would be possible, the only thing it does not change is the
distance involved. On the other hand, I enviously note the airfares you a re
discussing for Florida - less than the fare London to Lisbon.
4) World Cup - I confirm Silz has moved ahead of Zeri by one point. I have
put the latest results on the FAI server, but I am still waiting for the
von hafe results from Portugal.
Ian
1999 World Champs
===============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Dear Roger,
I've got Bulletin #0 of 1999 FF World & Junior European Championships
in Beja (Portugal). There is some main information from it.
DATES AND PLACE
August 25-31, 1999.
Competition activites will be centered around the city of Beer-Sheba, capital
of Negev district.
FLYING SITE
The competition will be held in an area 7 by 7 km of flat uninhabited plateau.
The competition site itself is a 3 x 3 km loess surface with few low scrubs.
WEATHER CONDITIONS
During the Israeli summer there are cloudless blue skies, no rain and stable
weather with
Max. temperature average of 31.3 C
Max wind average 5.05 m/s
Low humidity.
ENTRY FEE
250 USD for competitors and team managers.
50 USD for other team members.
TRANSPORTATION
The Aeroclub of Israel is in negotiations with "EL-AL", the National Airline,
for a reduced fare, as obtained for the 1986 European F3B Championship and for
1993 F3B W.C. and FAI General Conference (50% discount on the
fare and no charge for overweight).
CONTACT
Arick SINAI, Director General of AERO CLUB of ISRAEL,
67 Hayarkon St.,Tel-Aviv, 63432, ISRAEL
P.O.B. 26261, Tel-Aviv, 61263, ISRAEL
Tel: 972-3-5175038; Fax: 972-3-5177280
Res: P.O.B. 26415, Tel-Aviv, 61263
Tel:972-3-6295437, Mobile: 972-50-372382
Victor STAMOV:
1998 Sympo
==========
Just got my copy of this latest - A must for the FAI Flyer -
Top models from Van Wallene [F1A], Rosnoks [F1B] and Koster [F1C].
as well many great articles, including one by
Peter King [you can tell what I fly !] on Wakefield
trimming.
Fantham's Opus
==============
Preamble
--------
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hello Roger,
The following has become a 'Magnum Opus' - I will trim it if you wish. I
am inviting people to write back to me direct I hope that fits in with your
policy. Please re-arrange this aspect if you wish. If people write to me
I will summarise their inputs for your use.
Regards
Mike Fantham
[Ediorial - comment]
It does not matter to me where people reply to .. There are some items
that apply only to the UK, with respect to the BOM rule. For whatever
it's wort we believ in the US that the relaxing of the BOM has
significantly increased participation. Read Charlie
Stiles article in the 1998 Sympo.
AVIONICS AND OTHER MATTERS IN FREE-FLIGHT
BACKGROUND
I sometimes wish I had never started the 'avionics debate' but now it has a
life of its own and I feel responsible for it. I began to think about this
subject when I was considering 'the future of free-flight' as a title for a
paper I was asked to give at the British Model Flying Association (BMFA)
Free-Flight Forum at the beginning of this year. Chris Edge gave the
resulting paper, 'Avionics and the future of Free-Flight', again at the Max
Men Contest in February at Lost Hills. Part of me says, "Why try to stop
something that MIGHT happen - you may stop too much?", the other part of me
says I do not want free-flight to go the way of Formula One Motor Racing.
The underlying thinking here is that I believe it will be possible to have
an 'automatic' model at some time in the future. This model would 'know'
where it was and be able to act on information that it sensed about the
world around it. In a strong thermal, the model would know when it was
high enough to max and would then glide back up-wind, perhaps to land back
at the launch point. Air-speed, height, position and attitude sensing
would allow auto-stability, smaller tails and the ability to fly out of
'down' and search for 'lift'. A model could fly towards another that was
already in lift, and being laser illuminated with the appropriate ASCII
string.. Ok so some of this is a bit futuristic, but most of the
components of the technologies required are here now.
I am not really sure if I am against the development of sophisticated
sensor and control systems on free-flight models, but I think some people
are and I have started the debate. I want to see a sensible result. I
want us to have an open debate to get this right. If we decide to let such
developments take place, to let the great minds have free-reign, then
perhaps we should start to think about a simpler version of the F1x rules
to bring along at the same time. My concerns about increasing complexity
and reducing participation are also related to the Builder of the Model
rule debate that continues here in GB - more of that later.
Anyway, the British Model Flying Association Free-Flight Technical
Committee Chairman has asked me to consider the wording of a possible rule
that will allow the debate about avionics in Free-Flight models to go
forward to CIAM. Our GB committee is going to discuss this on 25th July -
SO PLEASE LET ME HAVE ANY IDEAS by 24th July. Don't worry if you miss the
date, write anyway.
The aim of the following wording is to control the use of computers and
sensors on-board Free-Flight models to prevent the use of 'automatic'
models with complex systems and software. The fear is that increasing
expense and complexity will reduce participation until we reach the
'Formula One motor racing' type of situation. Miniature sensors including
GPS receivers and very small actuators are here now.
THE PROPOSED RULE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
# No part of the model may be moved, relative to any other part, using any
form of electric or electro-mechanical actuator, after the timing of the
flight starts, except for: -
a) movements of pre-set magnitude at pre-set times, programmed into the
model on the ground before launch.
b) movements on an F1E model in response to a sensor that determines
horizontal direction.
c) movements commanded by radio control as allowed by rule 3.3.2 (the F1C
radio-control rule).
-------------------------------------------------------------
Note: This allows the use of purely mechanical systems such as inertia
controls (driven by moving masses), torque or tension actuated variable
pitch propellers/stabilisers and airspeed sensing mechanical switches. As
an addition, another possible clause is: -
d) movements of a pre-set magnitude triggered by sensing the timing of tow
hook loads during a cable launch and designed to prevent damage to a
cable-launched glider.
This allows some 'intelligence' in a glider - these systems in
cable-launched gliders are known as 'bail-out' or 'bunt inhibit', this
allows a pre-determined action to be performed in an emergency to prevent
model damage. This is analogous to the F1C radio engine stop and
de-thermaliser option.
- - - - -
What do you think about this wording? Do you agree with the aim but not
the words? Please let me know by e-mail - address below. I want to get a
form of words that produces the result that the flyers are happy to accept
and is best for the sport. We must be clear on what we are trying to
achieve and make sure that we do not close doors to developments that we
would not object to.
THE ONLY SAFE WAY MAY BE TO DO NOTHING NOW AND ONLY BAN THINGS WE DON'T
LIKE AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN INVENTED.
COMPLEXITY
We may decide that we want to go 'Formula One'. If so, I think we will we
need to bring in other classes 'under' the top level to cater for those on
their way 'up'. I have already been thinking about these simpler classes
for another reason. In Great Britain, we still require that competitors
build their own models, even in the FAI classes - please remember this if
you come to our domestic contests. There is one exception - our World Cup
event is run to normal FAI rules. Under our rules, certain items may be
purchased finished (prop assemblies, timers, engines, etc.) but final
assembly must be by the competitor. Some flyers in GB are trying to get
the normal FAI rules used for all our FAI events. In GB, at least part of
the resistance to dropping the requirement to build your own models comes
from the fear that complexity becomes more necessary to win contests if
purchased models are allowed to compete. It may be a way forward in GB to
introduce simpler, build-it-yourself F1x models for that reason.
SIMPLER CLASSES
Short F1x is the name I am using to describe the concept. I fly F1A so I
will put the ideas in the context of that class.
The additional rules in Short F1A over normal F1A would be something like :
-
Maximum wing span 2 metres. No movement of the flying surfaces of the
model after release from the launching cable, except for de-thermaliser
action. The competitor must be the builder of the model. (A list of
permitted pre-fabricated components would be allowed).
Other restrictions could be used as well. The aim is a simple model with
no bunt that would be ideal for a beginner or a junior - it could even
become the junior World Championship class! These models would also be
ideal for flying in windy weather - like the average British Contest! F1B
would have a span restriction, simple propellers and some restricted number
of timer functions perhaps. F1C would have a span limit, restricted timer
functions and perhaps some other restrictions. Let those who fly the
classes fill in the details.
RADIO CONTROL
Is it time for another look at our rule about the use of Radio-control in
free-flight? I think we should expand 'radio-control' to cover any
transmissions to the model. Perhaps we should give a score of zero for the
round if a transmission is made to the model after launch - in other words
only allow radio for emergencies. Should we allow command de-thermaliser
before the maximum time is flown? Should we allow de-thermaliser time
extension (to fly past an obstruction) or command de-thermaliser even after
the maximum is achieved? Both of these last two could give an advantage -
helping with the retrieving the model for another flight - but then so does
the retrieval beacon that most people use now. How could you tell if
command de-thermaliser or delay had been transmitted? What do you think?
Let me know direct by e-mail.
TIME-KEEPING
MORE IMPORTANT THAN ALL OF THE ABOVE is the matter of time-keeping. Anyone
who was at BEJA for the European Championships will know what I mean. Some
people there had interesting proposals. MAY I INVITE THEM TO TALK ABOUT
THEIR IDEAS HERE?
19 July 1998
Mike Fantham
F1A
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Scat Saturday
------------
In spite of the supposed summer hiatus this Saturday was a busy
daye for SCAT members.
At the early morning flying session we had Steven Coussens preparing
his f1As for the junior World Champs. Kaye Joyce had her Stamov
bunter going well and was getting coaching from the US Stamov Factory
rep, Randy Weiler. Randy , who claims he not going to Florida to try for the
team this year, was flying and advising other Team hopefuls, Parker,
Tom Coussens and Zink. With Parker, Coussens and Bauer bringing thier
sons it's the biggest number of people under
30 that I've seen at one these trimming sessions. Pierre Brun looks like
he's got his finals models together. Ken Bauer had be very busy at work
and this was the first time in months to try out
his latest Electrnic Bunter. As usual Ken
has another leading edge idea... but I'm saving comment
on that til next time. I was using up some motors that did
not pass the muster for some testing and broke more sucessive motors that
I ever had in my life. I guess that's why they did not pass the muster.
Other F1B flyers Ulm, Piserchio and Brush were working hard on their
stuff too. Looks like the competition at the finals will be tough -
I need to get my act together. [Yes, Randy - I will get the
right size tube for my CA and the 'Ike' sandpaper block]
Later that day right across the other side of the LA Basin we
had our summer pool party at Ed Carrols place. Ed moved just
under a year ago to the north side of the San
Fernanado Valley. We can see why he took that
house as the workshop is great. Temperature was over 100 F but
there were plenty of cold drinks and shade. Al Hotard commented
that only the old guys like Bob White, Frank Zaic, John Hannah,
Bob Wiehle and himself were there and where were the young guys ..
AL, the young guys .. and some of the real young like the Parker
and Coussens families were there - they were in the pool! I thought
your eyesight was better than that , maybe I need to have
your grandson time me in the future ! not you!
For Sale
========
1. By SCAT Member John Hannah -
Motor bike trailer good for 2 or 3 bikes
made from Honda car parts
i.e. extra reliable bearings etc tel: 310 454 0012
2. By Hector Diez - Bauer Rx and 2 TX Tel number : 805 583 1646 evenings
.........................
Roger Morrell
