SEN 2917 3 All-Tee or rather Certified Altimeter Items - Skyscrapers apparel
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1. 3 All-Tee or rather Certified Altimeter Items
2. Skyscrapers apparel
3 All-Tee or rather Certified Altimeter Items
These Items are from the All-Tee group on Face Book.
On this group there is quite a lot of discussion. This include three items that the SEN editor considers to be of the most importance. They are
1. Current availability of the All-Tee and possible mitigation
2. Description of EDIC process
3. Decision to only certify standalone Altimeters
For these items we have tried to take the text verbatim from the FaceBook group. Note that some of this information such as the availability of the All-Tee or another certified altimeter can be time critical and affect the decision for a person to attend or not an event or for a decision that a CD may take during the running of the event. Our FAI/CIAM community does not appear to have a commonly available place to authorize, post and view such announcements. All-Tee can be commended for making this information public via their FaceBook group but there should really be an official place for such information.
1 Availability of All-Tee as of now
Currently some of the parts required to build the All-Tee are out of stock worldwide. So far efforts to obtain the parts have failed (notably the main part: the pressure sensor). This results in the fact that currently the altimeter is not "commercially available" as dictated by the sporting code. Therefore, contest organizers should refrain from using an altimeter fly off unless all participants are equipped with a certified altimeter (e.g., by creating a 'pool' of altimeters of sportsmen who are willing to lend out theirs to fly off participants). I proposed this guideline to Ian Kaynes.
2. Question from a sportsman- Where I can read about EDIC certifying process? Have you any info about?
Answer From Allard
Sure, read here:
and here: https://www.fai.org/.../default/files/alt001_all-tee_1.0.pdf
3. Suggestion from some sportsman- , good, then just ask timer manufacturer to have their timer altimeter approved in the EDIC.
Reply From Allard
The CIAM EDIC working group has taken this into consideration. I was in fact in favor of this, however the chairmen (FF subcommittee and EDIC working group) came with convincing arguments not to certify these integrated systems. The reasons are that the integrated altimeters communicate with other functional parts of the timer. It is for the certification process near impossible to verify all such interactions. On top, every firmware upgrade (even if only related to other parts than the altimeter) would require a new certification process which was considered an impossible workload for the certifiers. These arguments were convincing for me and we decided only to certify standalone altimeters.
Comments related to this last item
– From the Editor who does have some understanding of onboard embedded systems.
Missing detail from the sporting code?
I was not able to find in the sporting code the requirement that the Altimeter must be a standalone device and/or not included in an electronic timer or other embedded on board system. For example, Magic Timers has an RDT unit that they do not currently sell, but this unit includes an altimeter that currently meets most of the altimeter’s specs and happens to use a different sensor than the All-Tee. But Magic Timers would be seriously unhappy if they did the changes necessary to meet the requirement only to find that all of the work was for naught because it is not a standalone unit. Note that this unit does more than All-Tee so it would be bigger and more expensive than the All-Tee. There is no commitment to produce this device.
There is the perspective of the Timer suppliers. In an informal discussion with some other Free Flight Electronic System Suppliers, they said they had not intentions of getting their timer certified for two reasons, that the timer would require some significant changes to bring it up to the altimeter requirements and the work to get it certified and recertified as mentioned above is too onerous.
Some sportsman appear to have a misunderstanding that most of these existing altimeters in timers are just perfect and would do the job without problems. It is very unlikely that any of the existing altimeters would meet the requirements with at least a minor change. After all the main use for these altimeters is aid in the preparation of models for competition as well as to brag on FB. They do this by comparing and analyzing flights as so the absolute accuracy and rate of measurement is not critical. The altimeter in one timer even has a “calibration factor” that lets the user “adjust” the reading, hmmmm. So even if your current timer was “certified” you would probably need to send your existing timer back to the factory to get a software and possibly hardware upgrade even if that was possible. Easier just to buy a new timer for each aircraft.
Dear Free Flight Friends,
Per the forwarded message below from Alan Abriss, you have a short time
opportunity to obtain Skyscraper apparel to enjoy, with some profit to the
club. He asked that I send this message broadly as there seems to be some
interest beyond club members.
---------- Forwarded message ---------
Subject: Skyscrapers apparel
I have found a new source for Skyscrapers apparel and the club now has a
popup shop where anyone can order shirts, hoodies and hats. Orders can be
placed online and be shipped directly to our members and friends who choose
to order. The more people who order means the club will make a profit.
Andrew please forward the link below to all those on your vast email list
as club merchandise should not be limited to only our members. I’ve had
requests from fellow model builders here in Florida for the shirts.
Guys please stress that the popup shop will only be online for three weeks
and that once all the orders are in all the items will be printed and
Here is the link to our shop…