SEN 2218 15 Nov 2016

Table of Contents - SEN 2218

  1. Patterson 2016
  2. Great altimeter experiment!
  3. Altimeters and LEDs
  4. Not P's Fault
  5. The Chief Dino like them
  6. But what's the real problem ?

Patterson 2016

The weather forecast was for great weather and that is exactly what we got!

After the 4th round the F!B models were getting close to the trees so it was decided to cut the max to 150 seconds and the F1A guys could tow upwind and the would continue to stay at the 180 seconds.

After the 7th round we moved flight line up to the northern end of the field which left us with plenty of room for the fly off.

The 5 min flight in F1B turned out to be the decider with Alex Andriukov making the only max.
In FIA all 3 sportsman easily made 5 min and was decided in the 7 min round. Jim Parker coming out on top with just under 7 min.

Brian VanNest CD

  PATTERSON                   Nov 12-14               BRIAN VANNEST CD

F1A                   Rnd1  Rnd2  Rnd3  Rnd4  Rnd5  Rnd6  Rnd7  F01               total
1  Jim Parker           240   180   180   180   180   180   180   300   415        2035
2  Rene Limberger       240   180   180   180   180   180   180   300   387        2007
3  Ken Bauer            240   180   180   180   180   180   180   300   295        1915
4  Mike McKeever        225   180   180   180   180   180   180                    1305
5  Peter Allnutt        222   178   180   180   180   180   180                    1300
6  Don Zink             240   180   180   180   180   180   157                    1297

F1B                   Rnd1  Rnd2  Rnd3  Rnd4  Rnd5  Rnd6  Rnd7  FO 1  FO2         total
1  Alex Andriukov       240   180   180   180   150   150   180   300              1560
2  Walt Ghio            240   180   180   180   150   150   150   263              1493
3  Troy Davis           240   180   180   180   150   150   150   224              1454Jr High Time
4  Michael Davis        240   180   180   180   150   150   150   222              1452
5  Mike Richardson      240   180   180   180   150   150   150                    1230
6  Blake Jensen         240   180   180   155   150   150   150                    1205
7  Bob Tymchek          240   180   163   154   150   150   150                    1187
8  Tom Ioerger       dnf   dnf   dnf   dnf      150dnf   dnf                        150

F1Q                   Rnd 1 Rnd 2 Rnd 3 Rnd 4 Rnd 5 Rnd 6 Rnd 7
1  Mike Pykelyn         172   180   179   180   122dnf   dnf                        833

F1H                   Rnd 1 Rnd 2 Rnd 3 Rnd 4 Rnd 5 FO 1  FO 2  FO 3
1  Mike McKeever        120   120   120   120   120                                 600
2  Blake Jensen         120   113   120   120   120                                 593
3  Jim Parker           120   120   110   120   120                                 590

F1G                   Rdn1  Rnd 2 Rnd 3 Rnd 4 Rnd 5 FO 1  FO 2
   1Tiffany Odell        120   120   120   120   120   180   215                     995
   2Mike Davis           120   120   120   120   120   180   120                     900
   3Troy Davis           120   120   120   120    90                                 570
   4Mike Pykelyn         120    96    86   120   120                                 542
   5Bob Tymchek            9   120   120   120   120                                 489
   6Mike Richardson   dnf      120   120   120   111                                 471
   7Tom Ioerger          120   120    68dnf   dnf                                    308

F1S                   Rnd 1 Rnd 2 Rnd 3 Rnd 4 Rnd 5 FO1   FO2
   1Matt Gewain           78   120   112   116   120                                 546

Great altimeter experiment!

From: Ken Bauer

Kudos to Allard for organizing the altimeter experiment.  Regardless of
whether this is ever adopted in the rules or not, at least someone is DOING
something to gather some data to help us find a way to possibly time models
more accurately particularly in high performance flyoffs.  It's easy to sit
back and be a critic because of fear that technology may somehow harm our
sport, but we should always support those that are willing to spend the
time and effort to experiment, otherwise progress will never happen.

It reminds me of the discussion 20 years ago when I first started talking
about RDT.  There were plenty of critics complaining that RDT would be the
beginning of the end for free flight.  Radios would pollute the pureness of
free flight and we would start a slippery slope towards turning free flight
models into RC.  Interesting that all that talk has completely disappeared
over the last 10 years and I enjoy dozens of testimonies every year about
how RDT has enhanced many people's enjoyment of free flight and allowed
them to enjoy much more flying.  Give altimeters a chance.


Altimeters and LEDs

From: Ross Jahnke
Altimeters are a nice addition to a model especially when it's integrated
into the electronic timer. They provide useful and interesting information
without significant additional weight. To me they are the equivalent of the
LCD display on our new Honda van that continually assesses miles per gallon
as we drive. (I took satisfaction in achieving 29.0 mpg on our summer road
trip!) What was interesting from the Rhône-Alpes World Cup is that the
flashers helped the timers a great deal. Long flights were visible to the
end when the model had an LED, but shorter flights went OOS without them.
Sort of the way brake lights  on a foggy road instantly prepare us to apply
our own brakes. This leads me to think that having an altimeter on an FAI
model is a nice luxury, but having lights is downright practical.

I would like to see data from many more flights by more individual modelers
using "legal" altimeters. Those flights should be made in conditions such
that the timer can see the model to the ground. Once the human timer and
the altimeter are consistently within a second of each other, a  rule
allowing altimeter data in OOS conditions or as evidence in a dispute would
be warranted. But if Allard's data shows anything, its that research on the
effectiveness of flashers deserves equal attention.

Not P's fault
From:Daniel Berry
Just a quick note: the F1P event is not the reason for the demise of the F1J event. Dan Berry 

Editor's Question ..  I agree that it may not be but ... what is ?


T-Rex (Chief Dino) likes them


From: Michael Achterberg
To all Dinos.
In my opinion altimeters are a great idea. I think they should take it a step further. I bet that one or many altimeter producers would be interested in producing a batch to rent to contest organizers at a reasonable rental rate.
All the same which makes it easy to download to record scores. No more last model in site the winner. How many WC have had questionable endings? How many contests won because there model was last one in site. That's not to say they would not have won anyway, but wouldn't an accurate answer to question make everyone feel better.
It also offers great quality results on smaller fields where a tree or a hill kept someone from placing or winning because of a tree or hill blocked the timers view. It happens in free flight and this device will be a aid, not a deterrent...Just don't see the problem.
Thermals, michael


But what's the real problem ?


From: John Carter
Hi on the altimeter subject I have said before in this forum that the problem is not timing, it is the performance. To day  our models is to good.How about using the altimeter to tell u the height at say 3 to 5 seconds post launch [F1A] and then if the height is above 75 metres then you have a penalty of  10 seconds per additional metre of altitude up to 80 metres then flight scores zero .This will mean that the fly off times are reduced in general The issue is that at 8 minutes in moderate drift, breeze a model is some 2 k downwind and at 9 plus metres a second the model is 4 plus k downwind. Experience tells me that at around 3k to 3.6 k a typical F1A is almost impossible to see even with reasonable binoculars .Paul Fynn is right, fitting altimeters ant going to attract more younger people, just put off some more of the existing crowd .Please lets get to grips with containing and controlling development and performance .Most if not all the sites we use apart from Mongolia are just to small to support flying 8, 9 and 10 minute flights .regards John Carter UK  

Roger Morrell