SEN 944 - 11 Apr 2005
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SCAT Electronic news 11 April 2005 issue 944
Table of Contents
===================
Great Gummi or does it matter What Ansleyymo has in his closet ?
Reply to Biggles - Jahnke
Post Kits - Van Nest
Zippers etc... - Brokenspar
Back to the Future & Welcome to the Present - Simon
No shipment of rubber to Cordoba - FAI Model Supply
Rolled tube fuselagefor P30 - Coleman
Fuel for Argentina - Iele
In Reply to the rolled p:30 fuselages - Revkin
Re: Rolled Tube Fuselages for P30 - Wantzenriether
Electric Timers - Myers
Thanks
Great Gummi or does it matter What Ansleyymo has in his closet ?
==============================================================
Woe is me Tan 2 is dead and Anselmo, Bob Piserchio, ... [insert name
of favorite privileged F1B sportsman] has a closet or cool room
or wine cooler fill of primo may 98 , or whatever and I'm
never going to beat him.... We got lots of help like asking John
Clapp to dye different batches different colors , etc ....
Well I just tested some of that SS that John referred to a
issue or so and says below that he can't take himself to
Cordoba .. It ain't too bad. For someone who did not have of that
magic vintage from Herr Silz's wine cooler this is a whole
lot better than the previous batch of SS and better than some
boxes of T2... so folks don't dispair there probably more where
that came from.
Reply to Biggles
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I would like to comment generally on Martyn Cowley's suggestions for
expanding future free flight participation. In general I agree with the
ideas he puts forward. My purpose is to refute one of the underlying
premises behind his presentation, and expand the reach of our activities.
I think it is wrong to focus all of our efforts on juniors. Young people
should be courted with vigor in the ways Martyn describes but they are not
the only source of new modelers nor the most reliable. Juniors tend to
change their focus as they become adults, affected by the distractions of
the opposite sex, college, emplyment etc. Though they sould not be ignored,
and should be pursued very actively, they are not the only population open
to us.
Adult modelers, R/C and C/L especially, and even non aviation affiliated
modelers already posess some of the requist qualities to succeed in our
sport. Often our mistake is to see recruiting from these groups as a
zero-sum-game. I think this is wrong. Why can't someone participate in two
branches of the sport or in two different hobbies? How many of us also
golf, run, paint, hunt or participate in another endeavor and still manage
to fly? I think it was quite wrong not to merge the F/F indoor champs with
the R/C events. Whatever logistical barriers existed, the benefits of
cross-pollenation would have been worth it. If we could get 10% of the
non-F/F AMA members to mark F/F as one of their interests, would we be
weaker or stonger?
Our most critical challenge is gaining attention outside of model aviation
circles. No rule change will help to recruit people who don't know we exist.
Lay-people have only a vague understanding of model airplanes and
(unfortunately for us) always assume a radio is involved. They are
surprised, when confronted with a free flight model, that they are not
controlled somehow from the ground. (Even todays average R/C modeler has
this reaction by the way.) Our energy should not be waisted on rule changes
and new events to keep the F/F community happy, but in presenting our
message to the rest of the world. Articles in GQ, Time, Smithsonian,
Outdoors, Southern Living and other publications should be a priority for
the NFFS publicity people. Adds featuring free flight models and modelers
should be developed (have you seen the drug ad with the R/C Ugly Stik?). We
need to use mass media to reach the out to the uninitiated masses.
I think we should also make an assessment of the free flight models that are
widely available in the retail market. More than ever free flight models
are available at discount stores and the mall. Many of these models fly
well enough to be interesting, and with some expert tweeking fly quite well.
Could NFFS endorse these models in exchange for a logo and web address on
the package? How about a model of the year award for F/F toys? If kids are
at the park with a F/F toy then we need to be there with them in any way we
can.
We also need to buy flying fields. If we have no place to fly, we have no
place to take new recruits. I think Andrew Barron's sod farm partnership
should be a model for all of our affluent members (and you know who you
are). A strategic plan to establish fields near the large population
centers is a worthy project for the NFFS Directors. If a free flighter has
a financial stake in a field, it is less likely to be lost. If you mow it,
they will come.
Though I said earlier that rule changes only benefit existing modelers, one
change would directly benefit new recruits - elimination of the BOM. The
BOM is an old rule that serves no purpose but to prop up a nostalgic notion
of what it means to be a modeler. If it must be relaxed gradually, by
starting with HLG, P-30 and 1/2A then so be it. Free flight is a highly
evolved sport. It is not easy to get started, even with a simple event. it
is also a sport that more than others is competition drive. Why make
someone build three or four models before they get something that can make
three official flights without crashing? If a friend is interested in golf,
would a free flighter lend him clubs and show him how to swing? Of course
not, first he would make him build clubs and a ball.
If you want to spread the gospel you need to leave the church.
Ross Jahnke
Post Kits
=========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger. Please post on SEN. Astrostar F1P 400 short kits, laser cut ribs and
plans
$25, full kits $75, are available from Bob Van Nest e-mail This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
Prices include postage. All proceeds will go to Jr.w/c fund. Kits are
vailable to Juniors. They can contact Walt Ghio or as posted on SEN #. Best of
luck to you and our team at W/C.
Zippers etc...
===============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
For Ed Mate....
When Zippers came out, '37 or '38, the first one I saw
was as we were driving up to the field entrance at
Wayne County Airport, for the Nats of that year.
A dimiishing engine buzzing as the model spiraled up, and up.
Was that '37 or '38 ?
Anyway, when the kit came out, Dick Weeks ( flying buddy )
bought the kit, and built one.
I didn't like all the stringers, so I built my own version:
A diamond fuselage.
Ten dollar Brown.
It crashed immediately ( if not sooner )
Later, when I was at school, after the war, University of Chicage,
walking down 55th street, here on a corner is - Goldberg Models...
maybe - Carl Goldberg Models. I went in.
The lady said - Yes, Carl's in the back.
That was his mother.
He came out and said hello.
Next time I saw him was at Taft. For some reason I gave him
a ride on my little Honda ( before Fat Cats ).
He had to hang on. He observed that I had love handles.
I saw him last at a Toledo Show - had lunch with him and his wife -
remember talking about he giving a bequest to the AMA...
...so much for Zippers with diamond fuselages.
Brokenspar
Back to the Future & Welcome to the Present
=================================
Author: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
1. Different Worlds
The following is my response to Mr. Laffler's letter and many others over
the past couple years regarding Juniors and the B.O.M. Let's start by
looking at the big picture, the USA of past (say 1950-1975) vs. the
USA presently. I can only use references about the 50's, the rest
is first hand experience. Looking back
at the 50's, you had radio, records, the advent of the TV with limited
programming, limited sports and school work, maybe a job at age, and
walked to school both ways uphill.
Today we have radio, CD's, DVD's, MP3's, Sat. TV, Cable TV, Computers,
Comp. and Video games, Instant messaging, WEB, numerous recreation activities
& vehicles, a plethora of sports programs, and extensive homework loads to
choke a horse. The point at hand is the large number of distractions that
consume a Juniors FREE time. A kid in sports and along with the distractions
above, is heavily burdened, and free time per week is a scarce commodity.
Kids do not have the luxury of time to build models as
we did in the past, FACT. So let's not compare apples to oranges, this
explains the reduction in building of models by Juniors, plain and simple.
2. Negative Attitudes
Let's look at a typical Juniors introduction into Free Flight. A parent or
friend builds some gliders with a child (say 8-12 yrs old) to teach them
about building and the experience of creating an airplane using
their hands and tools. Satisfaction will be observed watching them complete
their 1st model. Then off to a field to fly his/her creation. If all goes
well, the child will be bubbling with excitement from their
accomplishment. Then a contest or two to witness the thrill of competition,
other kids and their models, and the whole free flight flying experience.
After a few contests they see FAI events being flown
and are amazed at there performance! After a few years, they too want to
fly these events, and then you will be buying an airplane or kit so they
can compete with the rest of the flyers. Last time I checked,
most FAI events are JSO combined, so if you don't have what everyone else
has, guess what? These kids want to fly these events, nobody is holding
a knife to their back. That's the price of admission!
As you know, FAI models are very complex and most 10-18yr olds cannot make
them because of:
a. Lack of time. b. Building knowledge. c. Facilities/resources, ex.
vacuum bag, machine shop, etc....
OK, now to the chase, here is my QUESTION to all you NASAYERS: Would you
rather see these kids flying FAI, or not in Free Flight at all! You cry
and whine about flyer numbers and then you complain
about kids buying models, it's time for a reality CHECK, life is different
now. Most kids started by building some kind of model with a mentor, they
just didn't come out, buy a plane and fly it the same
day. Would you buy a set of golf clubs before first going out to the course
to play and see if you liked the game?? These kids love the performance
of FAI, the competition, the friendships, and the chance
to make the US Junior team, and can't get enough, is that a problem? I'm
not just pro FAI either, I love all free flight types.
3. Building experience vs. Flight experience
I'll be the first to agree that most juniors don't have the building
knowledge and construction experience you or I had at that age, but their
miles ahead in the flight skills experience department. When I was 14
I flew a Jabberwock in unlimited rubber, I wound it up, lit the fuse, and
just launched it. My son at 14 last year flew F1B, doing the complete
flight prep to DPR launch with only some help picking air. His models
are built from kits, but the complexity requires adult help. Adults have
trouble building them. Believe me when I say it's very complex for a
youngster, he has to set the timer correctly for 7 rounds or it's a short
contest, and for power flyers it's even worse. You have to think under
pressure and don't have all day to fly 3 flights. It's amazing to watch the
transition from simple to complex model flying that these kids are
capable of. Thank our FF coordinators for the great job they do behind the
scenes. The lack of building experience that some juniors have, could be
from being introduced to the sport at say 15 yrs old instead
of 10 yrs old. So let's not judge them poorly, because of their lack of
opportunity, but instead embrace them and nurture their interest in
modeling. Whether these kids are getting more flight experience than
building experience is irrelevant, the bottom line is, they are gaining
KNOWLEDGE and enjoying a sport they can share with family or friends
for a lifetime.
4. Conclusion
Next time seasoned modelers want to criticize Juniors, stop and ponder
the following: Their world is different than yours was, the places to fly
are shrinking, and their available free time is very limited. Let's not
blame them for the environment in which they now live and have little
control over. They still have a choice to fly FAI or AMA events, it's not
the end, just a co-existence of disciplines, old and new. If you want the
sport to grow, mentor a Junior, be POSITIVE and teach them what you have
learned from this sport of a lifetime. They will teach you too, just
talk to them at the field, I have.
Greg Simon
No shipment of rubber to Cordoba
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
After carefully checking all of the costs involved and the import
problems, I find that it would be less costly and much simpler to ship
rubber directly to the contestants homes. To reduce shipping costs, 3
boxes could be shipped to one address.
I had been warned that shipping a large amount of merchandise to
Argentina was not an easy task. Some may remember that during the last
World Champs in Argentina, Ed Dolby had to send all of his shipment back
to the USA.
I am very sorry to say that even with all of the great cooperation that
I have received from several very nice people concerning this matter, I
have come to the realization that the proposed shipment is just not
practical. Regretfully, John
Rolled tube fuselagefor P30
===========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
In general, P30 rolled fuselages are of a narrow diameter. They are of a
constant size with either a tapered cone behind the rear rubber peg or
none at all. The reason is not ease of construction nor aerodynamic. It
is however mechanical. If you make a tapered tube for any rubber model
the motor will often knot up at the rear of the tube, which both
shortens your motor run and changes your models cg. The result is
usually a short climb that terminates with a stall to the ground. This
makes it impossible to compete with any hope of success. So the parallel
tube is the preferred tube ( unless the diameter at the nose block is
increased to a level that would be aerodynamically inefficient.
Thermals,
Roger C.
Fuel for Argentina
==================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
FAI Fuel for Argentina W. Champs..
I want to inform that the FAI fuel that will be supplied for W.Cup and
W. Champs in Argentina will be pure Methanol and good quality Castor.
Not sinthetycs.
Regards
Daniel Iele
In Reply to the rolled p:30 fuselages
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The only reason that I have for tapered end fuselages is that they are
to save weight, In terms of strength, the un tapered fuselage might
have some advantages when hitting the ground. That also brings up the
question: Why most F1a-b-c-g-h-j fuselages taper towards the end? If
tapered fuselages are used on that large of a scale, they must have
more reasons then them just looking good.
see you downwind
josh
Re: Rolled Tube Fuselages for P30
==================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Rolled Tube Fuselages for P30
==============================
Original from : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> tapered back end for a rolled tube fuselage on a P30? ...>
Tony, all my P30 designs have simple tubes. The tail platform is cut herein
from the top, you have a width of 20 mm or so, no further stab mount is
needed. - Aerodynamics : please remember the time when the Coupe d'Hiver
have lost their minimum fuselage cross section of 20 cm2. With the new
fuselages you had to decrease the area of the stab, because the turbulence
behind the fuselages has become markedly smaller. As a further and bad
consequence you have got a smaller SSM (static stability margin) and a well
D/Ting model has begun to D/T sometimes like an acrobat... lacking of area
at the stab. This points out that a cone has no aerodynamic advantage, the
interference drag is fixed by the max cross section.
Electric Timers
===============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Jack Reid wrote and inquired about availaibility of timers for electric
models. The Smoothie timers currently being shipped by EF Technologies might b
e a
good starting point.
There website is www.eft-inc.com/models There is a fellow down in San
Diego who has been making small electric timers that drive a conventional ESC
speed control. He puts a little microchip in them and programs them with six
individual programs "at the factory", er garage workshop. I think the Smoothie
is
closer to what Jack Reid might want. EFT makes several different timers for
both electric and gas powered models.
Mike Myers
Thanks
=======
To Earl B, the engineer from Convair who put matching
swept wing stabs on the top of the rudders of his F1B for his
donation in support of SEN.
...................
Roger Morrell
