SEN 943 - 5 Apr 2005

SCAT Electronic News 5 April 2005 issue 943

Table of Contents
Diamond Demon - schroedter
W/C Prep - McKeever
TeeDee.020 glow heads - Lipori
Jim Parker's preparation for the WC in Argentina.
F1Q - Reid
Membership Drive - a reply - Nystrom
Sierra Championships - Ghio
FAI Fuel - Boutillier
Science Olympics Update
F1G - Murphy
Messages that do not land on SCAT news or Anselmo joins Segrave
Fw: what does "fixed wing" really mean? - SkyKieng
Rolled Tube Fuselages for P30 - Shepherd
Cox .020 Heads. - Stalick

Diamond Demon
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I am pretty certain that the diamond fuselage model with the wing and
tail from Carl Goldberg's Zipper was called either the Demon or the
Diamond Demon. This model appeared in Model Airplane News late in '42 or
early '43. My friend Bob Simon, who lived near me in Pasadena, obtained
the plans and built one. It never flew particularly well, but I think
this was mainly due to the weak engine he used. (It was a Phantom P-30
or similar engine.)

The Zipper was a big hit for the Comet Model Aircraft Co. Not only did
it perform well and was easy to trim, it was not a structure that any
modeler would contemplate scratch-building. Hence, one would always buy
the kit that cost something like $3.95. In 1939 that was a lot of money.
The Demon partially solved this problem.

One weakness of the Zipper's structure was that one had to be careful to
get the covering on the wing perfectly straight and not apply too much
dope. Otherwise the trailing edge would warp horribly.

One thing puzzles me about the Zippers I occasionally see flying today.
As I understand the OT rule, the engine has to be mounted as shown on
the production plans with no change in the thrust line. But I never see
a Zipper with an inverted engine as was indeed shown on the kit plans. I
think it was in '41 when the plans were changed to show an inverted
Comet 35 engine. The one I build had an upright Foster 29. It flew
wonderfully until one of the hooks on the side of the fuselage that held
the removable firewall in place let go under full power.

George Schroedter

W/C Prep
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There was a question asked about team preparation and models we are taking
to the W/C in Argentina. I guess it is getting close! The F1A team has been
in frequent communication and where possible Jim Parker and I have flown
under W/C team conditions (Jim won Maxmen and I won Scat) and the 3rd member of
our team, while Martyn nurses his knee, Ken Bauer, won at the Southwest
Regionals so we seem to be working well together. We debrief our flights and
constructively talk about our mistakes. Bottom line, we are feeling ready to

I am taking 6 models, three long, three short, all Stamov. I have two
excellent models (a long and short), two very good models
(long and short) and two
more with just a touch less performance. You are really talking about your
long models when thinking about performance as the shorts are all designed to
launch high and thermal well as opposed to have good still air times. We all
have very capable long models.

It's all about getting to the last flight and we should all be ready when we
get there! I'm looking forward to this as we're a solid team, we're good
friends and all have been flying together for years. It is also helpful to
have Hector Diaz and Brian Van Nest with us for help!

Looks like we'll try to get together one more time at San Valeers to work
out the fleet before our middle of May trip. Feel free to E-mail if you want
more detail, there are not many secrets in F1A.

TeeDee.020 glow heads
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> .020 glow heads
> Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

> Terry Thorkildsen suggested I contact you regarding a possible source
> for TD .020 glow heads. Getting back into FF after a 30-year absence I
> want to fly .02 Replica and small NosGas (in addition to my passionate
> involvement with CL Stunt). Any recommendations as to where I might
> fine a couple of those glow heads? Thanks...

Tower Hobbies is still supplying .020 glow heads for the PeeWee.020, which I
understand is identical to the TeeDee.020 head.
Not cheap at $10.99, but at least they are available.

Bob lipori

Jim Parker's preparation for the WC in Argentina.
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OK, Roger set the bar.

Jim Parker's preparation for the WC in Argentina.

The F1A team decided to fly as a team as much as possible. Unfortunately,
Martyn tweeted his knee and had to have it "scoped". He's doing his
therapy and doing well-- we hope to have one last state side team practice
at the up coming
San Valeers. First alternate Ken Bauer stepped in and flew with Mike and
I during the Winter Classic and the MaxMen. Hector Diez, my assistant in
Argentina ran with me when he was able at the MM. We also practiced some
walkie-talkie and the info during the last fly-off flight was critical to
my win. We had most usfully post contest de-briefs via email.

I fly mostly M&K components and basic stamp micro processor in all but my last
two model which use Black Magic. I'm still using my 30 year old 3/8 plywood
box. Per Alex Andriukov's lead, I found a cloth golf bag cover that fits my box
perfectly- I least I'll look like a professional walking with it out on the
line! In the box is the important stuff- 8 models: the two short, two standard
long and one extra long models are the "A" team. I'm taking Dallas' two
standard long model (one being the only mechanical model we have) and
good ol' #32 just in case.

I've made up 7 new lines. Recently I have been experimenting with a 25 foot
Russian Rod attached to 150# spectra line. This has very low stretch which
I like for calm condition. I'll continue to use the 25 foot leader of 100
lb fishing monofiliment with 150 lb spectra for thermal and wind.

As far as chase, the WC organizer are suppling / renting motorcycles to all
teams and Hector is arranging for us to have a second-- just like home. The
one thing I'll miss is Dallas, Hector has big shoes to fill.

I'm most interested to see how time has changed me and Argentina from my first
1989 US F1A team and WC. I was the highest "loser" dropping 1 second in the
first round in 1989. This year, the goal is to be in the last Flyoff flight
and I' d really like to bring home a goal medal-- individual, team- it
does not matter.

Hasta la vista baby.

Jim Parker, 2005 USA FF team member

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The FAI has just ratified this new class of electric FF models, F1Q. There
are no restrictions on models except for battery weight - 125 grams of
battery weight if NiCad or NiMH cells are used or 90 grams for Lithium Ion/Pol
cells. Motor run is limited to 25 seconds for a 3 minute maximum, but CDs
can alter it, and the max duration, to suit weather and field conditions.
There are no restrictions on span, areas, total weight, moveable surfaces, num
of cells, motor types, gearboxes, props, or anything else. It should
provide lots of room for experimentation for differing sizes and layouts of mo
This is all good news, especially for those of us who like to design and
build our own models, since no commercial F1Q models are on the market (yet).

All the technical bits needed for an F1Q model are presently available,
except for one item - an electronic control unit necessary to:
1) Arm the system
2) Start a brushless motor and run it up to speed via a normal speed
3) Start a motor run timer as the model is launched
4) Stop the motor after a predetermined run time, and disarm the power to
the motor, to prevent inadvertent restarts
5) Activate, via a servo, any trim changes from the power to glide phases of
the flight
6) DT the model.

A further option would be to incorporate an RCDT function, useful for
trimming and practice flights on small fields.

I've casually inquired about such a device before, and a modification to the
"Magic" timers seems one possibility. Power for such a unit would come from
the motor speed controller's BEC circuitry, but extra circuitry might be
needed for some of the necessary functions.

I'm ready to begin design of an F1Q model, but until I (and probably
everyone else interested in the class) can obtain this crucial item, I cannot
start construction.

Can any electronic wizards out there come up with a solution? There ought
to be a (modest, no doubt) market for such an item.

Jack Reid.

[Jack we have a version of our F1B timer that we are about ready to ship.
We have spoken with a number of other prospective F1Qers and have
made the necessary changes. We will have the 2 and 3 servo timers for
F1Q. In each case one of the 'servos' is the motor controller that
also has a BEC Function.

We have been delayed by our and other peoples preparartion for the
the up coming world champs. ... but real soon now.

E-mail to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]

Membership Drive - a reply
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I find much to agree with in Martyn's recent post. And, some, not. I can
not speak for NFFS, but a sudden influx of $1 junior members in any
substantial numbers would bankrupt the organization, if the magazine had
to be sent to them. Even $10 is below the actual cost of postage and
printing. The idea of an online version could take care of this cost
issue. But, I again wish to point out that young people do not represent
our salvation over the next 20 years. No matter how many kids we get
interested in FF today, very few of them will be active participants for
the next 20 years. College, marriage, kids, job, mortgage, and the
pressures of starting a life is just to much. For sure, a spark created
today may rekindle 20 or 30 years from now, but will we be around then?

I have an opportunity to talk to many of the people getting into FF
today (gas for sure) and I can not remember a single person under the
age of 40. Most are retired or soon to retire and looking to return to
their interests of a younger age. It is this age group we must find a
way to attract to our sport. They have time, money, and transportation,
and a desire for a recreational hobby. Many of the potential ones do not
have building skills and we must find a way to invite them to join us
without the huge hurdle of gluing a pile of sticks together. Lest I get
too bad of a name, I am a life long builder, but I still would like to
have the ability to buy a model from a friend to fly in an event I
currently do not enter. I have limited time to build a large number of

SO is doing quite well, and there are already online forums for the
participants to share ideas and problems. Quite frankly, if the NFFS
Free Flight Digest were to be refocused on SO, there would be a huge
outcry from the current membership. Today, there is hardly any reason at
all for a SO kid to belong to NFFS. At any cost, including free. Or if
there is, I guess I am ignorant of it.

The suggestion of unrestricted mentoring and such is excellent, and in
fact, one such proposal to allow this under AMA rules was sent to AMA in
January. I personally feel that a total and un restricted elimination of
the BOM for all outdoor except scale is called for immediately, but the
alternate proposal was submitted. Not just for some events, but all.
And for sure we do not need any more events or classes. The suggestion
of getting some use out of no longer wanted models is excellent. Or,
models of a builder no longer able to fly.

The electric fly example is excellent. It has no BOM, of course. It also
has a significant other difference, and that is any back yard or school
yard is virtually a flying field. The attraction of toy flying planes
is not lost with either young people or adults. It is more an issue of
how hard it is to engage in it. Electric RC is growing like carzy. In
all age groups. There have to be reasons for this when FF is not. Some
of the reasons we can not control, others we can.

I too would like to see more people share their views here, rather than
privately. This problem is not going to go away, and there is nothing to
be gained by not expressing one's views. Your FFCB member is going to be
forced to vote one way or the other, soon.

Martyn, you raise good points.


Sierra Championships
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Sierra Championships, Walt Ghio This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

The Sierra Championships were held this past weekend with excellent weather
on Saturday. Light drift with good size thermals in the afternoon. The big
thermals were taking the models into the new construction to the North of
our flying field. Due to the wet fields we were not able to move and we
lowered the flight time to 120 seconds for the sixth and seventh rounds to
keep the models out of the construction site. This also put a stop to the
flyoffs, which will be held in two weeks at the San Valeers Annual on
Saturday morning. The Sunday events were cancelled due to an East wind that
would have taken the models over Sunrise road and the canal.

Sierra Champs 2005

F1A 1 rd 2 nd 3 rd4 th 5 th 6 th 7th total
Pierre Brun 180 180 180 180 180 120 120 1140
Mike McKeever 180 180 180 180 180 120 120 1140
Fred Terzian 180 147 180 180 180 120 120 1107
Norm Smith 180 180 180 180 180 86 115 1101
Brian VanNest 180 180 180 180 131 120 120 1091
Don Zink 180 180 180 115 180 120 120 1075

Bill Booth 180 180 180 180 180 120 120 1140
Roger Morrell 180 180 180 180 180 120 120 1140
Rich Rohrke 180 180 180 180 180 120 120 1140
Jerry Fitch 150 70 180 180 0 0 0 580

F1P Junior
Anthony Ferrario 72 120 120 47 120 479

[On a cruise test at this even I glded into a small pond -
my electrinic timer d/ted the model with the electronic under water !
I did dry it all out before flying it later in the day. The other model
I flew D/Ted into a decorative pond on the housung development
that was a little reminisent of those at palm Bay - no gators - yet!]

FAI Fuel
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FAI Fuel

During the last CIAM meeting synthetic oil has been allowed besides of castor oil.
Until that we were sure that castor oil was used by contests organiser and we had
no problem with fuel.
How to be sure now of the quality of the synthetic oil used by organisers to mix fuel
to be supplied to competitors? If a synthetic oil of wrong
quality/viscosity is used one
can get all the engines worn out at the same time on the field with no possibility to
check anything prior to running the engines.
Perhaps could it have been possible to give minimum specification about the oil to be
used, just to be sure that it would withstand the high temperatures and
pressures that reign in our precious engines.
Any comment of experts in lubrification?
Bernard Boutillier

Science Olympics Update
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The number of student active in Wright Stuff event would be two persons times
number of teams. Some (few) states are not active in this event. Each state can
choose which and how many events to do.


"There are now over 14,000 K-12 schools participating from all 50 states and On
tario. We are proud that Juniata College in Pennsylvania will host the 20th Ann
ual National Science Olympiad Tournament on May 21-22, 2004"

The above web page reflects active teams in Middle and High School.
For instance there are 261 teams in Ohio. So, 261 times both team levels which
do Wright Stuff equals 522 total teams times two persons per team equals 1044 s
tudents doing the event in Ohio. Some schools will have more student practice t
he event but only two official at a contest. Some teams but very few will not p
articipate in the event.


Doug Schaefer

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I have ask Steve Kaluf of AMA to ask the CIAM for clasrification on this
point. I will post the reply on SCAT when I receive it.

Jerry Murphy, AMA 917
Dist IX FFCB and Committee Chair
9 Via Escondido Valle
Manitou Springs, CO 80829
Voice: 719-685-3766
FAX: 719-685-3745
Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

[rJjerry and otheasr - read the last issue where Ian Kaynes explains that
this is a editing issue with the FAI rules that has been corrected.]

Messages that do not land on SCAT news
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Hi Mr Scat,
in recent times a number of notes I've sent didn't appear on SCAT News.
I didn't react because, after all, the earth could still go on
revolving in the skys even without the generalized knowledge of my

Recently, on April 1st, I sent an note that could have a certain
relevance, at least in connection with the date, and again there has
been no trace of it in the last e-zine.

I send you this note and the April 1st one again, using a different
e-mail address of mine, just in case you have a powerful
filter/firewall that doesn't like my usual address.

Anselmo - yours works of wisdom, right up there with those of MAC the
bigotare intentionally excluded, neither was your e-mail deposited with
those who offer me all kinds of pharmacutical product, body part enhancements
etc, it was just over looking because of trying to get my act together
for Argentina, for me and others and F1Qers a and .. and ..

You article was great so i include it now - While it might be
dated in more than one sense - having heard Crisp and Roundsville
perform on your subject lets hope they have a subnmission.

The previous note :


Some additional news from the recent CIAM meeting in Lausanne.
As you probably suspect, beside all the "official" contacts,
sub-committees meetings and difficult choices, the gathering of so
many modellers all in one place for some time, gives the opportunity
to discuss informally things that are not yet "mature" for more formal

This year the participation of free flyers was quite important, so we
could have interesting exchanges of different views and feelings.
It was reported, by many of the present, that the image of free
flight, as the oldest and probably most complete of the modelling
activities, should be polished and put in a better perspective among
the other branches of our sport, in order to raise external visibility
and to foster a sense of pride and of "belonging" inside our

With this in mind, it was suggested to adopt a "corporate" anthem
(words and music) bearing testimony to the core activity and unique
character of free flight.
With this in mind, I volunteered to act as central point to spread the
idea and collect the contributions.

Free flyers of all nationalities are invited to compose an anthem
containing a maximum of three verses, plus a chorus.
The most important languages present on our flying fields should be
represented in this composition.
Introduction of elements relevant in the history of our sport is encouraged.
Recent trends should be incorporated, as, for instance, appreciation
and thanks for the impulse given in the last years to our activity by
our friends from the East, in this respect the presence of words like
"spassiba gospodin" could be introduced in the text.

However, no particular emphasis should be placed on any one state or

Working groups may be formed, for example by those with a common
linguistic base or practising the same free flight classes, in order
to ensure high-quality contributions.

The final song may draw on extracts from several contributions and
will be played and sung at future official events, like opening and
closing of free flight championships and free flight world cup contest
price giving ceremonies.

Please send all contributions from 1 April onwards to me.


Kind regards.

Anselmo Zeri

Fw: what does "fixed wing" really mean?
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Holy coefficient of lift!

This problem of what constitutes a fixed surface/wing aircraft raised its
ugly head during the early days of the "folders" concerning their
legality... Of course the folder concept features a wing that doesn't seem
to be all that firmly "fixed."

However, it all turned out to be much ado about nothing pertinent. The term
"fixed" is simply used in full scale aircraft to differentiate between
helicopters, autogyros, and whatever kind of roto-plane there may be out
there in contrast to any aircraft merely that "planes" through the air in
the usual straight-forward manner. A full-house auto-ship does that, A
Flapper does that, and a Folder does that...and so does a swing-winged fully
articulated supersonic military aircraft....airplane.

The only rules concerning the F1C Folder is that when folded it meets the
minimum allowed wing area --and does not exceed the maximum loading for that
area -- and when unfolded meets the minimum allowed loading for engine and

Here is a definition plucked from the internet:

Fixed-wing aircraft is a term used to refer to monoplanes, biplanes and
triplanes, in fact all conventional aircraft that are neither balloons,
airships, autogyros, helicopters or tiltrotors. The term embraces a minority
of aircraft that have folding wings, intended to fold when on the ground,
perhaps to ease stowage or facilitate transport on, for example, a vehicle
trailer or the powered lift connecting the hangar deck of an aircraft
carrier to its flight deck. It also embraces an even smaller number of
aircraft, such as the General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark and the Panavia
Tornado, that can fold their wings during flight. In the early days of their
development, these were termed "variable geometry" aircraft......

Don, forget the limitations imposed upon straight-laced Classic ca
n fiddle with decalage all you want in the modern events.

really billious g

Rolled Tube Fuselages for P30
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Has anyone got any evidence (anecdotal or theoretical) for the use of a
tapered back end for a rolled tube fuselage on a P30? I note that most
of the designs that I've seen for such a construction show the last few
inches fitted with a cone. That said, a plan that I have for a Vin
Denson model uses a parrallel tube throughout and I guess that he
considers that it doesn't make a scrap of difference. Certainly the
straight tube is easier to construct, but are there aerodynamic reasons
that it is not so good (or perhaps even better!)?

Tony Shepherd

Cox .020 Heads.
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Cox .020 Heads.
In issue 942 of SEN, Mike Keville asked for a source for Cox .020 heads.
These are for sale by Lee Campbell dba as Campbell's Custom Kits. His contact i
s <
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
These plugs are not cheap, so be ready to pony up $11.00 each plus postage.
I have also located these plugs at my local hobby shop, Trumps Hobbies in
Corvallis, OR.
Same price.
Bob Stalick

Roger Morrell