SEN 953 - 19 Jun 2005

SCAT Electronic News 19 June 2005 isue 953

Table of Contents
F1Q and F1P at the NATS - Lorbiecki
Vintage rubber ( rubber vintage ) - Brokenspar
Huron Cup
Re: Rex Hinson,s letter
DT decent rates
Magnificent Mountain Men (MMM) FAI 14 Rounder - Etheringtom
Noise Maker - Hube
Tangent FAI - McB and Roberts
Magic Timer News

F1Q and F1P at the NATS
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Hello all...

After some communications with various folks, the decision has been made to fly
F1Q at the NATS on Wednesday. This is a truly unofficial event, run primarily
by Aram Schlosberg. The event will begin at 8:00 and be flown in 5 one hour
rounds. There will be 2 1/2 minute maxes (changable by conditions, of course).
There will be no processing of these models, so please insure that they meet
the rules. Aram will be supplying awards if AMA will not.

Flyoffs will begin after the last round, with a reduced motor run (to be
determined at that time). This event will be there mainly to showcase the
event, provide a competition for the event, and hopefully be placed on the
schedule next year if there is enough interest.

F1P will be flown in conjunctiuon with F1C. The kids will fly off the poles,
just like F1C. They will follow the same rounds as F1C. It is the
responsibility of the flyers to notify their timers of the extended run
(10 seconds). It is a seperate event and will be awarded as such. Flyoffs in
the event will be flown with F1C. Check the F1C schedule for times. Models
will be processed as normal for F1C. Note that this is a junior/senior event
only and will be flown junior/ senior combined because of the expected
small turn out in this specialized event.

Questions? Please contact me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

John Lorbiecki

Vintage rubber ( rubber vintage )
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

The recent inquiry for Tan II, of Don De Loach, prompted a survey
of my collection...

Of Tan II, I have smaller boxes and envelopes starting with 10/97
...and a couple of 10# boxes, one recent, another 12/97.... and then...
several ( 20 ) spools and packages of Pirelli, Black, 6mm, looks like
starting about 1970...( tagged - Joe's Hobby Center,- still on =

Sort of like my wine collection, that includes Pavillon Rouge, 1979,
du Chateau Margaux, - of which several. Others. Tosti Peach !
All on their sides as tradition has it. ( keep the cork wet )
I rotate the bottles now and then.
My wine celler is the laundry room - I pass thru on the way to the =

We opened one of these bottles last year in the presence of
a bunch of wine snobs, -. a Margaux.
They were specutating the value of that bottle at 200 USD.
Opening sound effects: a soft thuck! Bad cork.
The same feeling as D'Ting early.

All this rubber collecting was originally for when I would get back
to flying Wake, or Indoor.
Now, I can't see the model in the sky, and I can't see the tungston.

...but they aren't using tungston now !
( nor Nichrome or Kevlar filament )

Now it's Boron! .....can hardly see that !
(..still have the spool I got from Erv at Lakehurst )

I have seen lists of Tan II and it's cousins, with testing
data for various vintages, 4 digit numbers..
Seemed to be rather short lists, probably being whatever
that author may have had on hand.

Has anyone made and published a more complete report..?

hoping to bounce back...

Huron Cup
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

The Toronto Free Flight Group Presents the Fifth Annual HURON CUP.

Dates: Saturday July 2nd. and Sunday July 3rd. 2005
Place: Base Borden, Angus, Ontario, CANADA

Events: F1G, F1H, F1J. Five one hour rounds starting at 8AM

F1A, F1B and F1C. Three one hour rounds starting at 5.30PM


F1A, F1B and F1C. Four rounds starting at 8AM.

Entry fees: CAD$30.00 for F1A, F1B and F1C
CAD$20.00 for F1G, F1H and F1J

CD: Jerry McGlashan
372, - 6th. Concession Rd. R.R.#1
Clear Creek, Ontario
N0E 1C0 Canada

Phone: (519) 875-2734
E-Mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

On Saturday at 12.30 - 2.00PM. Come and join us for our HURON Barbecue, =
featuring Hungarian sausages and hamburgers with chips and soft drinks.

Map showing entry to the field, available on request.

Re: Rex Hinson,s letter
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

> From : Rex Hinson C
> To : Dave Brown
> Hi Dave,
> As you may be aware, the USA FAI Free Flight team at the just
> concluded world championships reached an extremely high level of
> accomplishment. USA won the individual world championship in F1A, and
> both the F1B and F1C teams won the team gold for USA.
> I am disturbed to say the least that AMA chooses not to properly
> cover these accomplishments.

I have found many things in modern day living that were an annoyance to say
the least. For example as a machinist in the past I had to draw on my math
skills to calculate angles hole patterns etc. In fact others less
mathamatically inclined in the shop would come to me for Trig help. Now
modern day operators have no need for such mundane calculations, they just
head for the computer, and fire up the CAD program to get the necessary
numbers. I certainly have no problem with CAD, I think it's great and use it
myself, although shelving the old ways of doing things took a little time
getting used to.
Anyway a friend who has just recently been introduced to my most
fascinating, at least it is to her, hobby, has some comments on Rex Hinson's
letter to Dave Brown.
Bob lipori

Morgan's comments:

I read the letter and I can agree in part with the sentiment of it. My
question is, how many other "foundations" have been set aside in favor of
the new technology.

Personally I have always valued the generation that was born at a time
pre-cell phone, pre-television and before the need for high speed freeways.
This is the generation that survived one of the worst depressions in
history. This generation survived because it had the tools that it needed
to survive. Patience is a tool. Honesty is a tool. Clean living is a
tool. Feeling secure in ones own family is a tool. Letters are sent all
over the WWW regarding the things in the "old days", these things were

Because that generation thought that it would be better to grow a generation
that would be protected from what they had to survive, they "changed"
things. What they didn't realize was that in changing the way the society
functioned, they were changing the very things that allowed them to survive
the depression in the first place.

The new generations did not invent themselves, they had foundations built on
previous generations; Just like Radio Control has it's foundation in Free
Flight. To be angry with AMA for not giving NFFS and Free Flight as much
attention as it does the RC faction of the membership, is like being angry
because the local telephone company does not make TV commercials for the old
fashioned "princess telephones" and floods the airwaves with cell phone

If the AMA received $.01 in membership and subscriptions from the FF
organizations and $.99 from the RC organizations, whom do you think that
they are going to put on the front cover of the magazine that they print?
Don't grumble about not being represented. Find out how much a percentage
of your membership is a contributor and then provide the AMA with an
article/pictures to be published that much a percentage of the time. IF you
are only 1% then expect that only one magazine cover out of 100 will be
dedicated to FF. And if they will NOT do this much, bring it to their
attention. Show them figures, not grumbles. When you go to Muncie in
August, go PREPARED to get a petition signed that can be sent to AMA to
request equal representation.

Well that is just my $.02 worth


DT decent rates
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


I wonder if any SEN readers have, or know of, measured results on the
DT decent rates for models of various size and wing loading ?
I was only able to find one such result in the NFFS sympo archive !
12 to 13 fps for an F1A - no data on tail tip up angle.
There are plenty of estimates based on a drag coeff approx = 1,
but experiments suggest these may be inaccurate


Sean in

Sean O'Connor

I sent this before. Perhaps it got lost in the W C flurry ?

[no it was lost in the SPAM Slurry rate imples
interest rates on the mortgage spam I get]

Magnificent Mountain Men (MMM) FAI 14 Rounder
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Magnificent Mountain Men 26th Annual FAI 14-Rounder, Denver, CO
America's Toughest Contest

This will be an America’s Cup and NFFS National Cup Competition. The dates
for the contest are Friday, Saturday and Sunday, July 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
Friday will feature F1E (magnet steered glider) directed by Peter Brocks.
Saturday and Sunday schedule: F1A, B, C, and P will fly 7 rounds each day
(total 14), and F1G, H, J will fly the first three rounds each day (total
6). First three rounds each day will be 1:30 duration with the remainder
1:00. There will be perpetual trophies and glassware for F1A, B, C, G, H,
J and glassware for F1P.

We will also feature non FAI events as follows:
P-30 (National Cup).
HLG and CLG (each scored separately for National Cup points).
HLG/CLG shootout at the end of the day.
Open Gas combined (eligible to any FF gas model flown to the rules of its
respective event). The following events will also be scored separately for
the purpose of National Cup points: Nostalgia (1/4A, Early 1/2A, 1/2A, A,
B, C), AMA (1/2A, A, B, C, D), AMA Classic (1/2A, A/B, C/D)
OT Rubber Combined (3 flts, max 180).

Glassware will be presented through third place. Saturday night will be a
"banquet" (details and map available at contest). Contest headquarters
will be MicroTel Inn & Suites, 6230 E. Pine Lane, Parker, 720-851-2644.
Ask for MMM group rate. It is 20 minutes between the hotel and the field
gate. E-470 is the most direct and fastest route but it is a toll road
requiring 75 cents at Quincy (no change). There is a strip mall with a
grocery store and many restaurants near the hotel. An alternative is the
old standby, Country Manor Motel (15 minutes from field, 25 minutes from
banquet , very limited restaurants nearby), 32681 East Colfax Avenue,
Watkins, CO 80137, Phone: 303-261-9650, Toll Free: 800-834-9925.
For more information please contact This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

Chuck Etherington - CD

Noise Maker
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


I wonder if anyone can supply a circuit schematic for a noise maker that can
be fitted into the forward pod of an F1A? Something simple based on a 555
chip will probably do the trick. Several listings on the Web look promising,
but I'd like to use a proven version for this application.


Karl Hube

Tangent FAI
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

First, we would like to congratulate the tremendous effort and results of
our USA FAI teams in Argentina. Wow, sure hope they will all still talk to
those of us that "watched" daily on the web. Also, thanks to all the
managers and supporters that helped our team members achieve such terrific

Time to plan your trek to the great Northwest, wine country and FAI free flight
contest at Tangent Oregon. The contest will be held again in conjunction with
the AMA events at the Northwest Free Flight Champs all on Parkers' Field just
east of I-5, south of Albany, Oregon.

The FAI portion of the contest will be held on August 19th for F1 G,H,& J,
starting at 8:30 am (yes,this is a Friday), and the F1 A,B,
C& P will be held on August 20th starting at 8am. This will allow those that
wish to fly AMA events at the Champs for National Cup points. As usual, I will
be staying at the Relax Inn, next to Pierres' Chinese Restaurant on the south
end of the Albany airport. The number for them is 541-926-0170; if you use them
, tell them you are there for the model airplane contest. There is a large bal
loon event in town that weekend so motels can get crowded, but there are lots
of choices in Albany or a little bit farther away in Corvallis, so check the
web for possibilities.

Ron and I are planning to have a mini lunch break in the rounds on Saturday
with the Willamette Valley Modelers Club. They are bringing a BBQ to the
field with everything for $5. We will have a schedule posted at sign up.
Hope to see you flying in the Willamette Valley at the Tangent Classic.

Ron McB & Mike Roberts CD's

Magic Timer News

Since the work champs we have caught up a littel on our backlog but are
still behind, notably on the power and f1Q timers. We hope to catch
up soon. We are trying to keep the prices down so they can
be used by many people- but this menas things can take a little longer.

A number of people have asked about the availability of PalmPilots
with serial ports. We have a long term plan should they be come
un obtainable. But this is lower down the priority than clearing
the backlog. The Palm IIIxe is the best model to use.
This can be obtained froma number of E-Bay resellers and from
Fry's Electronics. Fry's has an online store at and
they periodically run promotions on the Palm III xe. Un fortunately
the promotions with a mail in rebate are not aavailable to people
outside the USA and only one per person. The prices of these vary
from $30 + tax to about $80 including tax.

I almost always have spare Palm Pilots that I can provide to Magic Timers

Victor Stamov and I have some problems with non-english language
Palms, in particular German IIIe that appears to have a non standard
serial port upgrade. We are working on a solution.

Remember that the Palm Pilot for Magic Timer [ Red, Black, SMArt, etc]
must have a serial port. This is not present on all 'current' models
notable the Zires and cheaper Tungstens.

Roger Morrell