SEN-507 November 28 2000
- Category: Archive 2000
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News and Reports 2000 - second half
SCAT Electronic News 28 November 2000 issue 507
Table of Contents
Lurking, fear, and 14 rounds - Rocket
Nicads for starter boxes - Smith
Is there a wurst in my soup ? - Fantham
National Cup points update - Perkins
RE: Agree/Disagree; MAXMEN 14-ROUNDER Cut to 7 RDS? - Cowley
Maxmen - Hinson
Max Men - Roberts
Desert Challenge - Bogie
More on the 14 - Crowley
To fourteen or not to fourteen - Gregorie
RE: Fwd: NFFS F1H MOY - Cowley
Agree/Disagree; MAXMEN 14-ROUNDER Cut to 7 RDS? - Barron
Lurking, fear, and 14 rounds
Not having flown competitively for two years I hardly feel qualified to
comment but comment I must. I have all ways enjoyed the two day format
and, like some of the other sportsmen who have commented, wish there
were a few more. If the bugs were not so bad in Alaska's summer I
would like to have one here. The format could be 7 rounds starting in
the early am, a long siesta, and then another seven rounds finishing
with the midnight sun! Contest blown out? No problem, the world's
best salmon and trophy rainbow fishing are right on the river.
Fear of power:
It takes a special type of power ship to sink a Nordic flier for almost
two years. What kind could you ask? One of those full size person
controlled Piper Tri-pacers. Now that it is almost back together I am
thinking about building a new model (120 mph winds removed the lift
struts-if you were wondering).
(you can never tell what you might find) Lurking in the SCAT mailbox:
I never fully understood the effort Roger has continued to exert in
maintaining this news letter, not in till I read the almost two years of
past messages. What an invigorating dose of the FAI. Roger, keep up
the good work!
F1-A at the Nordic Cafe:
[Rocket - after 500 issues, I do not understand it either ...]
Nicads for starter boxes
I'm in the process of designing and building a new, smaller,
lighter starter box and thought I'd try out nicads, instead of a sealed
lead acid battery. I've got a 10 cell pack of Sanyo 1.2v, 1700ma scrc's
(fast charge, for electric flight) and all the right charging gear,
Question is, has anyone tried this set-up and where there any problems?
I'll be running both the starter and the plug driver off the one
battery. It works fine in the workshop...............
I can halve the weight of the box, I'll still be over the max luggage
allowance, but not by so much.........
Is there a wurst in my soup ?
In response to Aram Schlosberg's piece on accelerating F1A models for the
I use a 'single step zoom on unlatch' system after the style of
New-Zealander Gary Burrows' hook published in Free Flight News, April 1972.
The one step zoom rudder deflection for my 'still-air model' is about half
that used on the 'thermal model'. The still-air model is brought low for
the acceleration which starts lower and lasts longer than on the thermal
model. The thermal model is accelerated from a high circle and needs the
extra rudder to 'bring it round' into the glide turn in a shorter time. In
both cases, the acceleration starts before the model is straight - I start
pulling when it is still cross-wind. The calmer it is, the nearer to
cross-wind I start. Once the hook is open, the longer you hold on, the
more the model comes round. I admit that this is difficult to observe when
you are running like mad - but the facility is there. If the model is
heading left (right turning glide!) I will pull round. I think a curved
acceleration is less critical. If a straight acceleration model goes off
away from the glide direction, it will need a more forward hook position to
give a chance to pull it back straight. If your hook is too far back, you
will not be able to pull the model around to follow you so easily. It will
head away from the glide turn - in the direction it was pointing when the
tension went on. Also, if the hook is too far forward, it will tend to
pull round and follow you when you pull hard - weakening the effect of any
zoom rudder deflection that was supposed to push it into the glide
Incidently glider fans, I think I have another name for Aram's 'staging
Think of that moment in the calm when you have decided to launch, you have
moderate line tension - the model is low down, cross wind and coming
around to the sweet spot. In that split second, you are like a greyhound
before a race, coiled and bouncing, waiting for the moment when the model
is in the right position to unlease the sprint for the launch of a
life-time. The sense of urgency and anticipation... The springy stance,
the outstretched arm - ready to pull like mad.......
We needed a name for that moment.
Chris Edge and I came up with, 'SOUP' (Sense Of Urgency Position).
Examples of use:-
'Everything felt right so I went into the SOUP and really let one
'I stayed in the SOUP too long that time and everything went soft on
For the 14
[answer - yes but it only on the edge]
National Cup points update
The latest update in National Cup points is attached. The only contest
results unreported as of this date are for the 11/18-19/00 Skyscrapers
Annual. Only four contests remain on the schedule to complete the year--the
Post Turkey Shoot 11/26, the I-10 challenge 12/16-17, the Autumn Thrash
12/16-17, and the King Orange 12/29-31.
As the summary pages show, the leads for the AMA Rubber Cup and Glider Cup
recently changed hands and the margins have narrowed for the AMA Power and
Nostalgia Cups. It looks like all four National Cups are still up for
grabs, with the outcomes dependent upon results of the last four contests.
It would be hard to imagine a better start-up year for the National Cup.
Thanks for posting the results on the EN.
[ the results will be in an attachment supplement]
RE: Agree/Disagree; MAXMEN 14-ROUNDER Cut to 7 RDS?
* My vote is for the Max Men 14 round event to remain at 14 rounds
(unless of course they also reduce the entry fee by 50% - just kidding
* Incidentally, what about making the Mini Events 10 rounds !
If it is not broken, don't fix it.
The 14 rounder without 14 rounds would not be worth a trip across the
country to fly in.
Florida votes for 14 rounds. After 4 recounts, we get the same result.
DON'T CHANGE TO 7 ROUNDS.
More opinions on the Max Men:
1. George runs a great contest and I will come in any case, but prefer 14
2. Any outdoor competition (ski racing, motocross, etc.) can and is
influenced and sometimes controlled by mother nature. We make our own
3. For those that have to fly 14 rounds; the Western FAI Challenge in
Washington is a true macho contest with hidden tank traps for your bike, and
large airplane eating trees on all four sides of the field so come on up on
Labor Day weekend.
4. My first Max Men last year was awesome and the coolest thing I have ever
seen; I look forward to the WC.
Thanks for putting up with and accepting all opinions.
Here is the information for the first contest of the new year.
Now, for the first event of the year . . .
THE DESERT TEAM CHALLENGE
JANUARY 6 AND 7, 2001
YOU ARE INVITED TO ENJOY A WEEKEND OF LAID BACK FAI COMPETITION
F1A, F1B, F1C, F1G, F1H, F1J MODELS.
BBQ FOOD, TABLE SERVICE, TABLE AND/OR CHAIRS, CHARCOAL AND A BBQ.
THREE ONE HOUR ROUNDS STARTING AT 1 PM SATURDAY.
FOUR ROUNDS SUNDAY MORNING STARTING AT 8 AM.
LENGTH OF THE ONE HOUR ROUNDS WILL BE ADJUSTED ON INDIVIDUAL NEEDS.
WE WILL RUN TWO TO A TEAM, DEPENDING ON NUMBER OF ENTRIES.
ENTER TEAM NAMES ON THE SCORE SHEETS FOUND ON THE TABLE.
ALSO SIGN THE INSURANCE FORM.
RECORD FLIGHT TIMES ON THE SCORE SHEETS.
TIME YOURSELF IF NECESSARY.
WOOD FOR THE BONFIRE. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT WE STAY WARM AFTER THE BANQUET
LOOK FOR WOOD WHILE RETRIEVING AND GO AFTER IT AFTER THE ROUNDS ARE IN
BRING WOOD FROM HOME. PALLETS MAKE GOOD FIRE.
START THE CHARCOAL. SUNDOWN IS 5:02 PM.
SET THE TABLES AND THE SHARE TABLE, SPREAD THE FOOD.
WATCH FOR KIT FOXES.
WILL BE AWARDED SUNDAY NOON.
COST? A fiver should do it.
4837 Los Robles Ave
Hacienda Hts, CA 91745
More on the 14
Please say it isn't so. A Max Men without 14 rounds is no longer the Max Men
we know and love. Paul Crowley
To fourteen or not to fourteen
My vote would fall with Pim Ruyter and the Dutch contingent for the 14 round
format. I'm speaking as a paid-up member of the non-motorised retrieving
I think California is a long way to go for just one 7 round contest, even
including better weather and a mini-contest as added attractions. After all,
if the weather is bad some rounds can be cancelled. My last visit lost an
entire day to rain and wind, but we still had a good 7 round event.
Scheduling 14 rounds and setting aside three days for the Maxmen gives a
very high chance of actually flying the 5 rounds needed for the event to
count toward the World Cup.
RE: Fwd: NFFS F1H MOY
* Thanks for the thought - but really this is old news.
* Although I have won 14 consecutive US Free Flight Championships (16
in all), 5 consecutive America's Cups (in fact that's all of them !) and
held the A/1 / F1H AMA National Record continuously since 1981 (with more
than 7 separate increases) my model is now obsolete under the present
* Instead of MOY, NFFS should consider an annual Product Endorsement
for the FAI Classes. I would be the first to nominate Victor Stamov's
F1H Glider (as I have done each year since 1998) as it is the only design
that has consistently beaten me during the past 30 years ! Or is NFFS
trying to pick a Nostalgia FAI model, rather than the design which is
currently the Best in the World ?
Maybe you and Herman could team up on this project and submit a nomination!
We of course need a write-up, contest record, picture and plans! Get started
early so the deadline is not breathing down your back!
Thanks for chairing the MOY committee.
For over a decade I thought Martyn Cowley's F1H was an obvious choice as
having the best contest record on the planet and holding the AMA record
probably continuously despite changes in the weight and flyoff rules.
Additionally, foam construction makes the design one of the simplest to
and is certainly "outside the box" with the Twanger Hook and simple
electronic DT only timer.
Martyn could do a much better job of the description than I, plus it isn't
worth the bother if he disqualifies it again due to conflict of interest
since he is always on the selection committee.
Please consider this a nomination. There must be some way to do an end run
and finally let the world see this most successful model.
Agree/Disagree; MAXMEN 14-ROUNDER Cut to 7 RDS?
I agree with Lee that 14 rounds is part of what makes this contest
especially desirable. -- Andrew Barron