SEN-509 November 29 2000
- Category: Archive 2000
- Hits: 295
News and Reports 2000 - second half
SCAT Electronic News 29 November 2000 issue 509
Table of Contents
F.1.A releases - Magill
Nicad use - The Alien
14 horse drawn haggis - Edge
14 Rounder- Brokenspar
ten too much ? - Augustus
Max Men - Ghio
Nicads for starter boxes - Gregorie
re Dooling .61 and collectible value. - Andresen
Remaining 14 Round Contests - Murphy
About Max Men contest and 14 flights. - Chaussebourg
7 - 14 rounds for the MAX MEN? - Makarov
14 Rounds or 28 ! - Myers
Desert Challege Trophies - Bogie
Paul MacCready in Time Mag - Biggles and Markos
To 14 or not to 14 - Brush
I read with great interest, first Aram's then Mike's pieces on F.1.A
releases. I seem to have the straight release pattern that Mike describes
in his piece, and i must say it's great when it works, but I've also found
it to be very critical to set up in terms of wind direction, the angle i run
at when releasing, and placement of the model in the thermal. I feel that
the model is too easily disturbed from it's correct release pattern, and a
few times i have had the model veer left(right turning glide) and not want
to come back round when releasing. Obviously this is disasterous for
placing the model in the thermal...especially as i think that in New
Zealand, most times our thermals are very narrow, so there's not much room
Currently, i'm building some new gliders, and intend to try to set them up
with a more of a curved path, so they should be easier to release at the
correct attitude. I also found the part in Mike's piece about hook
placement very interesting, i think it's really important to have the hook
in just the right place for each model...i have a set distance where i put
my hook when building the model, but usually fiddle with it until i get it
in the place that suits me. I remember someone asking me for advice on a
model that was always trying to circle on the line, and would not tow up in
calm air, i suggested he move the hook back, and he looked at me as though i
I noted this person didnt take the advice, and his out of control model
promptly line crossed me and towed me in in the very next round...there's no
justice!, keep up the good work Roger,
P.S I'm for the 14 rounds...never been to one, but it seems like the
ultimate in machoism, not to mention a great test of our powers of
concentration, and the ability to overcome mental and physical fatigue.
In reference to the use of nicads for starter boxes, they work fine. I
used a nicad battery pack with, what I believe were 1500 mah cells from
1984 until about 1991, when the pack gave up. Never had a problem with
them. The only thing is that they should be charged only when almost run
down to prevent them from developing a memory. Either that or they
should be cycled from time to time.(Totally discharged and recharged.)
Where do I send $$$$$ for SEN? My address system is only slightly
messed up. Must be the atmosphere up here. Things just seem to
The Alien Guy
[Bob - the postal address is Roger Morrell, 1916 B Gates Ave, Redondo Beach,
14 horse drawn haggis
Dear Mr SCAT,
I read with envy the discussion over the continuation of 14 rounds at the
MaxMen contest in your excellent aeromodelling organ. Up here in
Scotland I am lucky to be able to fly 14 rounds in an entire year let
alone a weekend. Not only do we have the strongest winds, the deepest
floods but we have to contend with more sheep and cows per square mile
than you guys have oil wells, let alone stone walls that destroy even
the strongest titanium covered model. Still, I have recently acquired
a share in three fine horses for retrieval so it isn't all bad.
Sirs, keep the 14 rounds so that fine athletes such as myself can bound
gazelle -like (according to Fantham anyway) across the fine
Here's a chuckle for you: I vote for the 14 rounder !
ten too much ?
In reply to Martyn's suggestion to make the Max Men Minis 10 rounds,
I suggest that would all but eliminate all the large event fliers
from participating in the Minis. Would it attract enough additional
Mini-only fliers to make up the loss?
on 11/27/2000 10:47:04 PM
This past summer I suggested to Bob White to change the Max Men contest to a
seven round contest. My main reason for the suggestion was the fact that
the Monday flyoffs did not have many flyers who had travel plans that could
not be change and also several "Americans" who had to return to work. Yes,
this is President's day but not everybody gets this day off. I had to call
my manager and tell him that I would not be at work that day. The reserve
day is a good idea, but this year showed that it was not fair to all who had
maxed out for the eight rounds. Several years ago the F1C flyoff did not
include Peter Watson who was on foot chasing his model. Daylight was
running out and a decision was made to start the round without Peter.
I love the long two day contest. The Patterson and Sierra Cup used a five /
five round format for many years. My favorite contest was the
five/five/five round USA finals. I do not hear many flyers or organizes
wanting this format. The organization and running of the Max Men is a big
effort. The advantage is that two events can be run on Saturday and one
event on Sunday. George will not have three flyoffs to run in one evening.
More timers can be found for the flyoffs, the total package is less of an
effort for George and the quality of the contest will be increased.
The 1999 Stonehedge and 2000 Holiday on Ice were contest that I attended.
Both used a five flight /flyoff format. I enjoyed the format and felt that
the flyoffs are were the "contest" is.
Nicads for starter boxes
> Question is, has anyone tried [running starter and glowdriver of NiCds]
> and where there any problems?
I have a comparable, though dissimilar, rig for F1J flying that works
without any problems. The difference from your setup is that it is two
My glow driver, based on the American Modeller design that was published
many years ago, can operate off 10 x 550 mAh NiCds or an external gel cell.
Even these small NiCds run it fine once I worked out that I needed to put a
2500 uF electrolytic capacitor across them. Without the capacitor the
current drain during the pulse pulled the batteries down too low for the
circuit to operate. Small NiCds have a higher internal resistance than a
typical gel cell and so the capacitor is needed to buffer the pulse current
requirement. The average current when driving a Nelson plug is within the
battery capability. This unit will handle test flying plus an F1J contest
off a single charge.
My starter is based on the Joe Beshar design, with a Mabuchi car motor (502S
I think) and 6 x 1800 mAh cells in a short length of 50 mm dia plastic drain
pipe. I fitted a Master Airscrew 3:1 reduction gear to drive the spinner
cup. There was enough torque without it, but my motors start more easily
when spun at 2000-4000 rpm rather than at 12000-15000. This starter can
easily handle a day's test and contest flying on a single charge. I now
prefer it to a regular starter because there are no leads on it to get in
the prop. I haven't tried starting a 15 with it, but the torque should be
re Dooling .61 and collectible value.
Son Erik, Sympo88 cartoonist, runs a collectible store which has been "Best
of Phoenix" for several years. He can relate many humorous tales of markets
manipulated by appraisers with a vested interest. I would be the last to
suggest that this is the case with model airplane stuff as the group is so
tight-knit (and honest) so no one would last very long doing that.
Anyhow, when Erik has a question he checks the completed auctions on eBay
Not only is the final price given, but also description, photos and # of
bidders. The # is significant in determining interest.
There were 418 hits on dooling in completed auctions. Sorting by bid price
relegated hoopster Keyon Dooling's 400 or so sports cards to the bottom of
A Yellow Jacket .61 race car engine (very rare) went for $2650 with many
bids. 29's were in the $160-220 range and various parts and cars were also
Ebay listing are useful in that they cover current transactions in the
largest collectible auction site on this planet. This is in contrast to
"The Antiques Roadshow" etc that only show prime stuff or ripoffs and have a
vested interest in the estimated value. Drives Erik bonkers when someone
totes in a Barbie play doll and expects $1000's as seen on TV.
That's a lot more than I know about collectible values,
Remaining 14 Round Contests
Please keep in mind that the Magnificent Mountain Men continue to run a 14
round FAI contest in Denver. This is a real tough contest because of the
altitude of the field and Colorado's summer weather. It takes a real tough
seasoned flyer to win this one. The 2001 dates look like Saturday June 30
and Sunday July 1. The dates will be finalized after our planning meeting
in January. Check the MMM web site for details at
Jerry Murphy, AMA 917
Dist IX FFCB
9 Via Escondido Valle
Manitou Springs, CO 80829
About Max Men contest and 14 flights.
Unfortunatly, I have never been yet to California in February, so I have
never been competing at the Max Men Contest, but I am always interested
about this competition, for many reasons, and also because it is the only
one in the World Cup with 14 rounds.
Here in France, one week before Poitou, we have an open International in
BEAUVOIR, near NIORT. It is not flown in rounds, but it is also a 14
"flights" contest. We fly on three days: Friday evening: four flights
between 18h00 and the night, saturday morning three flights between 06h30
and 09h30, and four flights from 18h00 to the night, sunday morning three
flights from 06h30 to 09h30, then results at 12h00 and banquet! When we have
wind, or fog in the morning, we can delay the start, or fly more flights on
the next day, if we had to cancel some on the previous day, but we manage to
make the 14 flights every year. Many European flyers, even sometimes
Australian flyers are coming to this contest which has more and more
We are not using motor bikes... only our legs and sometimes bicycle when we
have roads in the same direction as the wind... or wind direction parallèle
to the roads...! We are tired at the end of the three days. We are not
"professional flyers"..., but we have so much fun!!!
By the way, Victor, what do you mean by "professional flyer"? For me, a task
is "professional" when you get paid to do it and so, you must pay "taxes" to
your country to do your "profession". Usually, when I fly, I "pay" myself at
least my entry fee to do my flying, and it is a great pleasure. If one day I
get paid for flying, I'll stop immediatly, to go fishing or whatever!!!
7 - 14 rounds for the MAX MEN?
My vote is for the Max Men 14 rounds event. There are a lot of 7
rounds events around the World and only one of them 14 - Max Men. That
is a history, that is a tradition and that is an interest.
It is now problems, if sometimes (not so often) there is a bad weather -
you can cancel some rounds. You have one of the best fields and why
don't use it for 100%? Probably, try to move the contest 1 or 2 weeks
later - may be the weather will be more stable?
Sincerely, Sergei Makarov.
14 Rounder or 28 !
The 14 Rounder has always been a big deal!! It would be better if it
was a 28 Rounder.
I have always looked forward to this contest. It gives me more chances
to screw up. Always has drawn many flyers from overseas. They must
feel good about more rounds also, as they all show up and have a great
time. Just because we have one blow out is no reason to act like the
organazers who don't want a flyoff at the WC. Looking forward to many
more 14 Rounders.
Desert Challege Trophies
It appears that some of the Desert Challenge trophies may
have ridden off into the sunset. If that sunset is a your
place pleasee fess up to Bogie - complete amnesty offered.
Paul MacCready in Time Mag
* Hate to disappoint the readers, but it's actually a Ukrainian F3 !
* The real question is whether or not that's Biggles helmet he's
- aka Martyn
From: MARKOS, CHARLES S. [PHR/1825] on Wed, Nov 29, 2000 1:42 PM
Subject: Paul MacCready in Time Mag
You've seen, I'm sure, the photo in the December 4 issue. Question is,
whose F1 wing is he holding? The SEN readership might be interested in
the background of the photo.
To 14 or not to 14
Roger, from one F1B flyer that hopes to compete in the next Max Men, please
continue the tradition of 14 founds.
When the PGA cuts from 18 holes to 9 would be a good time to consider making
One of my most exciting flying accomplishments was a second place at the Max
Men. It had more meaning than my share of 1st places in any other single
Tina and I would be very disappointed to see the "Max Men." changed to the
Al & Tina Brush