SEN 2221 - 22 Nov 2016
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Table of Contents - SEN 2221
- Clocks or altimeters ?
- Handicapping, Bad precedent ?
- German F1C Proposals.
- What's the spec ?
- Can our specs see beyond the edge
- Bob White Memorial MaxMen International
Clocks or altimeters ?
From :John Carter
More on this subject I agree that the altimeter can aid determining a flight time but the question is is it desirable ?
For the altimeter to be considered fair it would need a standard spec and have quality control to ensure the devise is made as per specification and also delivers the performance and readings to a common accepted tolerance !
But as all replays to my comments the point is missed .The altimeter just confirms a load of statistics times heights etc.
And tells you how good the model and flights are.
I am trying to high light the fact the world is getting smaller and places to fly are increasingly more difficult to find
Having more and more potential performance does not help .
Jc UK
Handicapping, Bad precedent ?
From: John Barker
I am not a Flyer of FAI International class models but as they are the
pinnacle of aeromodelling skill and I am an aeromodeller I take an interest.
I think the German proposals for F1C are liable to set a precedent that will
be a problem in the future.
Fundamentally the FAI rules set a specification for the aeroplanes which can
be used in a Class, the rules under which it is flown and then the winner is
the flyer with the highest time. As in many pastimes where equipment is
used, motor racing, cycling, sailing and so on the technical developments
within the rules are an essential part of the pastime. The intention is
that the most skilful entrant with the best equipment shall be the winner.
The German proposal would turn a simple time honoured method of running an
important competition into a handicap event. I won't go into the immense
difficulties of setting fair handicaps against the virtually unknown
duration benefits of poorly defined technical developments but if I had
built a model to the rules and put up the highest time I should be very
disappointed if someone else was declared as Champion in F1C.
If people are not content with the present rules and classes they should
approach the FAI with a request for a new class for Dumbed Down F1Cs.
John Barker.
German F1C Proposals.
From: Martin Dilly
Great!! Just what we need - still more F1Cs reaching the fly-off ! (Hint - irony warning). Surely, in view of the almost total lack worldwide of sites suitable for the sort of fly-off times now achieved, what is actually needed is a means of reducing the performance of folders and flappers, rather than increasing that of the others.
I agree, though, that the last thing we want is to make obsolete the existing models used by our dwindling band of flyers. Ballast comes to mind as one way.
But then I'm only an ex-F1A flyer, so what do I know?
Martin
What's the spec ?
From: chris edge
Bosun SCAT,
In my line of work if you need a system to do a complex task then you write the spec(ification) before you do anything else. If, and it's a big if, we wanted an alternative timing system for FF then where is the spec that a proposed altimeter method is trying to meet ? Maybe the text below can be a starting point for discussion, then let's see what item (commercial or custom) meets it :-
In cases of disputed scoring of a outdoor free flight model aircraft an alternative recording system is required. This shall* record as a minimum :-
Contest name, flight number
Competitor name, country and contest number
Model number, FAI license number
Timekeeper details, pole number
Time of model release/launch. In the case of F1A, the time of the pennant falling away from the model, for F1B,C,E, the model leaving the hand of the competitor.
Time of model landing or striking an obstacle such that normal manual timing criteria would be terminated
The recording system should weight less than 10grms including battery, be capable of ~1 hour of recording time and be no greater than 10mm in thickness. Cost of the unit without battery should be less than £25 (Scottish).
It shall use a standard recording method such that the data can not be editable without clearly rendering the data corrupted, and can be accessed using standard PC or MAC software.
Others much better than myself will be able to add/clarify the wording to make it watertight.
*Note that in my line of work 'shall' is a mandatory requirement.
EoB
Can our specs see beyond the edge?
Editorial
Following up the suggestion from EoB above. Before we figure the specs where should probably figure that we are trying to do.
At the highest level its what do we do to make competition Free Flight survive in today’s fast changing world, while maintain the elements that are most important to us ?
Looking at all the surrounds time keeping
One school of thought, John Carter’s says the real problem is performance so if we cripple the performance enough then the models will always remain in sight and we don’t need timing help. In fact if your model flys out of sight maybe you have too much performance anyway so should be penalized by not getting timed right to the end of the flight.
Allard says sometimes on fly off flights we need timing help so let’s figure a way at minimum cost and max benefit to do that. And lets try something as soon as we can.
Others say timing is always a problem Free Flight contests, either finding a time keeper for me or me seeing someone else’s model so I want help, of any kind.
Others say if it has electrons and no bamboo and banana oil it has to be bad.
Techno geeks say , “ you mean you use a stop watch !” how so 20th century every competitive activity from a 10K race in small town, thru serious running, swimming , sailing to NASCAR and Formula 1 all use electronic timing.
Finally I took part in a discussion of a group of people looking at organizing a FF World champ who had two thoughts, where will we find enough time keepers and will electronic timing of some kind make a better event for the participant and contribute to a better sporting result?
I took part in innovation actives for two very well known companies, both who faced the same question with their business as we face with Free Flight , that is, how do we survive in fast changing world. Both adopted innovative and agile processes, it was very painful and hard but it worked.
We have seen recently a number of proposed rule changes from the introduction of F1P to the reduction of rounds from 5 to 7 and split flyoff, where a specification was written without properly testing the ideas and there were a number of unintended consequences and recovering is proving hard. Allard’s approach, while not covering all the people’s needs mentioned above does follow some of the agile innovation rules – come up with an approach, try it , don’t spend forever talking about it, know it might not be perfect and need another iteration or two. We need a way of extending that further to get us on the right track.
We see a lot of political disruption in the World these days with the changing of ways things are done, we need to take heed and learn. We can’t go back, the genie is out of the bottle we must go forward.
PS: in my line of work, it did not matter if you built what the specs said if it was not what the people really wanted and did not do what was required...
2017 Bob White Memorial Max Men International
An FAI World Cup and Americas Cup Event
February 16 - 20, 2017
Bissonette Mirage Field, Lost Hills California, USA
F1E: Thursday February 16
F1E California Cup Organized and run by SCAT (Separate Bulletin & Entry)
(7) 45 Minute Rounds + Flyoffs - Check-In on Holloway Hill at 9:00 AM Round 1 Start Time: 10:00 AM
F1A: Friday February 17
*(7) 1-Hour Rounds + Flyoffs - Round 1 Start Time: 8:00AM
First Round Extended Max 240 Seconds
F1Q: Friday February 17
*(7) 1-Hour Rounds + Flyoffs - Round 1 Start Time: 8:00AM
First Round Max 180 Seconds
F1B, F1C and F1P: Saturday February 18
*(7) 1-Hour Rounds + Flyoffs - Round 1 Start Time: 8:00AM
First Round Extended Max 240 Seconds
Americas Cup Banquet: Saturday February 18
Dinner and Americas Cup Awards Presentations - 7:00 PM at Lost Hills Recreation Center
F1G, F1H F1J and F1S: Sunday February 19
(5) 1-Hour Rounds + Flyoffs - Round 1 Start Time: 10:00AM
Reserve Day: Monday February 20
ALL CONTESTANTS FLYING F1A, F1B, F1C, F1E AND F1Q MUST HAVE A CURRENT FAI SPORTING LICENSE
*(7) ROUNDS IS AN APPROVED EXCEPTION TO 2017 REGULATIONS
NOTE:
2018 SCHEDULE WILL REVERSE FRIDAY & SATURDAY EVENTS. F1B, F1C AND F1P WILL BE FRIDAY, F1A & F1Q WILL BE SATURDAY
2017 Bob White Memorial Max Men International
ONLINE ENTRY FOR FAB FEBRUARY
Roger Morrell has developed a complete online entry portal for all FAI events that also includes banquets and social gatherings during the Fab February Week. This is extremely helpful to all contest managers and we encourage you to use this portal. Open the link below, fill in all your entries and information, you will get an e-mail response and we’ll see you in February!
All fees can be paid at registration
IF YOU WANT TO DO IT THE OLD-SCHOOL WAY
ENTRY FORM
NAME ______________________________________________________________________
ADDRESS ___________________________________________________________________
CITY, STATE, ZIP ________________________________________________________________________
COUNTRY _____________________________ FAI SPORTING LICENSE ______________________
PLEASE ENTER ME IN:
_____ F1A ($40) _____ F1B ($40) _____ F1C ($40) _____ F1P ($20) _____ F1Q ($40)
_____ F1G ($20) _____ F1H ($20) _____ F1J ($20) _____ F1S ($20)
NO ENTRY FEES FOR FAI JUNIORS, BUT PRE-ENTRY IS REQUIRED
ENTRY FORMS & FEES FOR F1E CALIFORNIA CUP WILL BE COLLECTED BY THE ORGANIZERS (SCAT)
AMERICAS CUP BANQUET _____ Adults x $23 = __________ & _____ Under Age 17 x $17 = __________
TOTAL ENCLOSED $ _____________________
Mail or E-Mail Old School Entry Form to Max Men International Contest Director:
Bill Booth Jr.
5092 Nighthawk Way
Oceanside, CA 92056, USA
(760) 842-1079 or (760) 889-3201 e-mail: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Non-US Contestants must pay $36 AMA Affiliation Fee or show receipt from prior payment
Entries are considered LATE if Entry Form is received after Wednesday February 8, 2017
Contestants must pick up Registration Package at Headquarters Tent before Round 1 of their first event
Lost Hills Motels: Motel 6 (661) 797-2346 and Days Inn (661) 797-2371
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Roger Morrell