SEN 2333 - 20 Aug 2017

SEN 2333 – Table of Contents 


  1. Tripod questions and others
  2. C Timing
  3. F1E W/C in Romania
  4. GPS Trackers
  5. American Cup – flying Q without ELs

Tripod questions and other

From: Sergey Makarov
Dear Ian.  (this email was address to both SEN and Ian Kaynes)
In Hungary we talked about rules 2016 and 2017. You told me, that it was not any changes in the tripod rules from 2016 to 2017. Please comment this sentences in the code:
B.13.7 ... On each starting position at least one of the binocular will be mounted on a tripod.
3.A2.6 ... A tripod for supporting binoculars is an additional item of equipment.
It looks that this rule was seriously changed and Hungarian organizers used this gap in the code. As a result we had a lot of timekeepers mistake at this WCh.
Also I have another question. In the code we have a rule:
3.A2.6 ... The timekeepers should write down the results in exactly the form in which is recorded on stopwatch (for example, as minutes and seconds)
to avoid conversion errors.
Why the organizers at this WCh (and many world cup events) did not follow it? It is a way to do a lot of mistakes and after result write down in seconds directly, timekeepers reset the stopwatchs and is is impossible to check it later!
Best wishes, 

Sergey Makarov

C Timing
 From: Mike Roberts


Welcome home and trust you are cooling off.  For what it is worth, I use 1.1 second bunt delay on my folders with a 3.45 second engine run and a .9 second delay on my fixed wing gear with a 3.4 second engine run.  I think most of us set our timers using our fellow C flyers and sound and even using electronic timers it is common to get clocked off within a .3 second spread in the competitions.  Sound or bunt depends on thumb reaction time so is a big variable when the timer is not really experienced.

As a side note the Lost Hills Motel 6 is now able to book for Fab Feb.  I am booked

Best Regards


Editor’s Note  - pointing out the obvious in Mike’s case  if timed on the bunt he would get an overrun on every flight as 3.45 + 1.1 is more than 4 seconds 

F1E W/C in Romania

From: Bernhard Schwendemann



the F1E championship in Turda / ROU will start this weekend. The junior will
fly on 23. Aug, the seniors on 24. Aug.

The blog on the Thermiksense website is already running:

Best regards

GPS Trackers

From: Chuck Powell

Hi Roger 
 I would really like to hear some feedback on the GPS trackers available now ! Where can I get some opinions etc ! 
   Chuck Powell 


There is a GPS tracker in the Favionics timer but I assume you are not interested in that one ? as it require the complete F1A or F1B timer?
There is the iCare from Optimal that has been out for some time.
The first general deliveries of the GPS tracker from FF Electronics was just made at the World Champs so I do not know if many people have practical experience.
I understand that there are others in the works but none announced yet

American Cup – flying Q without ELs

From: aram schlosberg 
CIAM, in its wisdom, imposed using an energy limiter (EL) on all Q models beginning in 2018.  Since the concept of energy was introduced into Q, the American position has always been to include a Q-lite version, in which Q fliers can estimate their Wattage (and energy) statically. So, if the motor run is say 10 seconds, then the Wattage is measure at the midpoint and is multiplied by the motor run to get the model’s static energy consumption (Wattage X time). Note that averaging the initial and final Wattages will overestimate the motor’s Wattage, because a fully charged battery’s discharge curve is concave (lower in the middle). The advantage of the mid-run Wattage estimation is its simplicity – requiring a Wattmeter and a stop watch.
Estimating the Wattage statically entails a lower energy budget, since when the model in is motion, the prop unloads, reducing its torque (which is equivalent to using less energy). Static mid run Wattage estimations roughly under estimate a model’s energy by about 10%.
At the last Nats, eleven flew Q but only 4 or 5 used an EL. So imposing an EL requirement will eliminate all the lite-Q fliers crossing over from AMA A and B electric. (I’m not including E36 and S fliers, whose models are seriously handicapped in Q.)
It’s difficult to guesstimate how an EL requirement in the American Cup will REDUCE participation. But what is certain is that the number of Q flier in American Cup contest will drop significantly. I’m therefore suggesting that the American Cup explicitly allow mid-run Wattage estimation for Q beginning next year. So, if someone flies in an American Cup which is also a World Cup, their result would count in the former; count in the latter if they have a FAI license and use an EL.
Waiving the EL requirement for the American Cup is probably supported by all the American Q fliers, with or without an EL. Remember – participation is critical in our sport.

Editor’s Comment

Aram – the traditional position of SCAT –the Southern California Aero Team, in fact the reason why it was founded  is to fly the FAI events strictly following the FAI rules so that American flyer would be best prepared for participation in FAI events world wide.  The club that most of the members had belonged to went through a period where some key members fiddled with the FAI rules for the events they sponsored to suit themselves (in the opinion of those who became members SCAT).

Taking the participation argument, one could say that permitting the participation of AMA Gas models with a “A” size engine would increase participation in F1C ? but not really. It would just give the A gas guys another event to fly in.

The rules for the America’s Cup for the following are set by a Club Committee towards the end of the year and all input from participants is taken into account.