SEN 1512
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- Category: Archive 2011
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- Finals round times and model retrieval
- Circling in Sweden
- Oh Dear
- Self Test question
- Geezer help in f1A
- Bear Cup
Finals Round times and the retrieval of models
To the TSC and to everyone who flies in the Team Selection Program.
Reference the proposed 2013 Team Selection Program. The TSC failed to follow the established precedent of HIGHLIGHTING/EMPHASIZING all changes to the program so that the program entrants can fully recognize and understand just what changes have been made, and to consider the effect those changes will make. Highlighting proposed changes has been a requirement since at least 1992 when I first was on the TSC.
The changes to the length of the rounds and to the retrieval period went unnoticed the first time I read through the proposed program. When studying the proposal the second time I discovered the time changes that had not been highlighted for the program entrants.
To all program entrants, I urge you to vote NO on the acceptance of this proposed program, If you have already voted Yes, I respectfully urge you to call HQ AMA, Competition Department, 1-800-435-9262, Extension 252, Ask for Colleen, tell you you want to change your vote to NO, due to the unidentifed changes were inadvertently overlooked prior to your intial vote, and the changes are unacceptable.
To the Team Selection Committee. I understand that you are trying to free up more time for flyoffs at the end of each contest day (at the finals)........ but there is no reason to curtail the round times from 30 minutes to 25 minutes and the retrieval time from 50 minutes (after the end of the round time) to 35 minutes. I recognize you are trying to shoe horn two complete contests, into the same time frame where we have had trouble completing one contest in the same time frame....... remember the 2006 finals, we only completed 6 rounds for F1C in 3 days, and then the CD and Jury overrode the program requirement of at least 7 rounds had to be completed before you could have a flyoff, and then we went into a reserve day 10 minute flyoff. You are attempting to complete 10 rounds in that same 3 day period, plus 2 sets of flyoffs. Emphasizing the morning 10 minute flyoff is your only chance of getting 2 contests into this small time period.
Yes, at a normal contest we start each round on the hour......... but from the start of round 1 to the end of round 2 is 2 hours, not 1 hour and 25 minutes which you lay out in the proposed finals program. At a normal contest there is adequate time to retrieve your model, and to obtain assistance if necessary to find your model, and still have time to fly in the next round. At the finals you are retrieving on your own, not to much help there, is there!!
And at a World Championship you have other team members retrieving for you, so you are never in a time constraint for moving your equipment and readying your model for the next round. You might have two models down wing (over run?) but you have an hour for the team members to get your models back to you before your next flight!!!!!!!!
Chasing at Lost Hills can be trencherous and time consuming, especially of you go north across that huge plowed fields or into the pits, or to the west-south-west, and directly south, into the huge crop fields where we almost always are off our bikes and searching on foot. If you force break neck retrievals, you are getting into a SAFETY PROBLEM........Lost Hills, Muncie, Seguin, Sedera Ranch, Palm Bay...... none of these sites allow break neck retrievals.
The finals should never be a retrieving contest, nor should you want the competitors leaving their best models out in the fields/pits because they do not have time to find and retrieve their models before their next round starts.
A competitor needs time to move his equipment (rotate to the his assigned pole for the next round.......... what if it is clear to the other end??) and to prepare his model before the round starts
I think the TSC is failing to recognize the distance the high performance F1 models travel............ in any wind at all at Lost Hills, and at any other flying site, todays models outfly what has been considered normal retrieval distances and where retrieval is easy. IT IS NOT.
Your best flyoff results are from the 10 minute morning flyoffs (i.e. Mike McKeever winning the F1A 10 minute morning finals flyoff in 2004 and then becoming the World champion in 2005. Also, Archer-Happersett-Warren won the F1C 10 minute final's flyoff in 2004 and then the three of them won the F1C Team Championship and Archer placed 2nd at the 2005 World Championships).
I would strongly suggest that the Team Selection Committee reconsider the length of the round times and the retrieval time period. Picking the strongest team who are able to fly all the rounds and the flyoffs with their best models is more important that turning the finals into a retrieving contest, just to gain more daylight for a single flyoff round. That flyoff round will mean nothing when the team gets to the World Championships.
Leave the length of the round at 30 minutes,
Leave the retrieval period at 50 minutes.
Two other suggestions...... if you think having two flyoff rounds in the evening is just a gotta-die-for requirement
1. Leave the length of the round at 30 minutes, and the retrieval period at 50 minutes, and reduce the number of rounds for each contest to 6. If 5 rounds constitute an official contest as you state, then 6 is acceptable.
2. Leave the length of the round at 30 minutes, and the retrieval period at 50 minutes, and do away with the lunch break, we never had it before,, why waste time doing now??????
Respectfully,
Roger Simpson
Editor's Comment
USA Team selection Participants would have recieved the proposal that Roger is talking about in the mail from the AMA. It was written by the TSC based on the results of their in-person meeting at the end of last year.
Circling in Sweden
Hello Roger,
At the 1970 WC's in Goteborg Sweden we saw what I think were the first
circle tow F1A models, Don't remember the name of the flyer but think he was
Russian.
Buzz Averill
Oh dear!
Very important mail item from Mike Woodhouse This is a test
van Eldik a junior? He's got grey hair now!
Maarten van Dijks a father now!
I'm starting to get old! It's a bugger. I remember the event of 40
years ago quite clearly. lodged in prisoner of war style huts on the
field, no glass in the windows and paper bed sheets. I also remember a
certain person getting thrown out of the eating hall for fondling a
waitress and no it wasn't me! My wife disappeared with our orange
coloured VW Beetle and toured the Swedish lakes and left us to the
flying, we had driven there through the continent and up through
Denmark. We went trimming with the Danes on the way there and slept in
the cellar of one of their houses (Kjeld Kongsberg), he had Hansen's
1953 glider winner hanging up. I seemed to recall being up for almost 24
hours a day during the contest and straight towing all over the field
to find not a lot of lift.
Those was the days. ...........A
Still I'm still here and still going. So what the hell! ........B
Better get those motors sorted for Argentina!
Michael Woodhouse
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.freeflightsupplies.co.uk
Self test question
What the most important statement in Mike's article.... the line marked A or the line marked B?
... I was going to add the line where Mike's wife went off and toured Sweden without him, but that would be too easy!!
Geezer help for f1A
Gentlemen,
I am no expert in Free Flight mainly in F1A related issues. My point of view as a new comer to FAI F1 competition is that FAI classes are not meant to be popular (not saying this is good). Comparing to automotive world FAI F1 is to me the same as FIA F1, where performance is being seeked guide by a clear set of rules. Price is not part of these rules yet.
However if performance is to be limited wouldn´t it be much more simple to use a fuse in the line? Say 10kg or whatever value... That is more or less the approach used in F5D and F5B and competions to limit energy but not to restrict developments.
Alex
Bear Cup Results
F1A
| POS | NAME | FAI | LAP 1 | LAP 2 | LAP 3 | LAP 4 | LAP 5 | LAP 6 | LAP 7 | TOTAL | SECONDS |
| 1 | Kosonozhkin Mikhail | RUS-0373 | 0:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 6:47 | 0:26:47 | 1607 |
| 2 | Findahl Per | SWE 15125 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 6:07 | 0:26:07 | 1567 |
| 3 | Nielsen Leif | DEN-2060 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 5:54 | 0:25:54 | 1554 |
| 4 | Henriksson Kim | FIN-1481 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 5:37 | 0:25:37 | 1537 |
| 5 | Henriksson Mikke | FIN-4904 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 5:37 | 0:25:37 | 1537 |
| 6 | Savolainen Janne | FIN-3214 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 5:10 | 0:25:10 | 1510 |
| 7 | Salminen Heikki | FIN-2246 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 5:05 | 0:25:05 | 1505 |
| 8 | Pärna Ardo | EST-0048 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:57 | 0:24:57 | 1497 |
| 9 | Westén Henrik Jun. | SWE-71081 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:55 | 0:24:55 | 1495 |
| 10 | Lepp Tambet | EST-0297 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:54 | 0:24:54 | 1494 |
| 11 | Ronkanen Pekka | FIN-3575 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:54 | 0:24:54 | 1494 |
| 12 | Klungrehaug Atle | NOR-1496 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:48 | 0:24:48 | 1488 |
| 13 | Lihtamo Matti | FIN-359 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:37 | 0:24:37 | 1477 |
| 14 | Malila Lauri | SUI-50833 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:31 | 0:24:31 | 1471 |
| 15 | Kuikka Petri | FIN-2964 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:28 | 0:24:28 | 1468 |
| 16 | Nyhegn Jes | DEN-2242 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:26 | 0:24:26 | 1466 |
| 17 | Juslin Jukka | FIN-3895 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:24 | 0:24:24 | 1464 |
| 18 | Laaksonen Jori | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 3:48 | 0:23:48 | 1428 | |
| 19 | Pajunen Timo | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 3:39 | 0:23:39 | 1419 | |
| 20 | Findahl Oskar Jun. | SWE-58263 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 3:22 | 0:23:22 | 1402 |
| 21 | Tähkäpää Heikki | FIN-289 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 2:32 | 0:22:32 | 1352 |
| 22 | Varuskivi Vesa | FIN-1801 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 2:06 | 0:22:06 | 1326 |
| 23 | Poljaev Valery | RUS-0032 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 1:59 | 0:21:59 | 1319 |
| 24 | Valo Jari | FIN-1654 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 0:00 | 0:20:00 | 1200 |
| 25 | Persson Anders | SWE-8335 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:53 | 0:19:53 | 1193 | |
| 26 | Åsberg Daniel Jun | SWE-69797 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:50 | 0:19:50 | 1190 | |
| 27 | Hellgren Robert | SWE-40391 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:48 | 0:19:48 | 1188 | |
| 28 | Vihul Ülar | EST-0070 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:48 | 0:19:48 | 1188 | |
| 29 | Kuningas Juhani | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:47 | 0:19:47 | 1187 | ||
| 30 | Tschop Viktor | UKR-134 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:25 | 0:19:25 | 1165 | |
| 31 | Weimer Thomas | GER-2073 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:00 | 0:19:00 | 1140 | |
| 32 | Kokk Urmas | EST-290 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:32 | 0:18:32 | 1112 | |
| 33 | Jensen Lars Buch | DEN-4212 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:06 | 0:18:06 | 1086 | |
| 34 | Isotalo Tommi | FIN-3655 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:09 | 0:17:09 | 1029 | |
| 35 | Lindgren Kari | FIN-704 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 1:51 | 0:16:51 | 1011 | |
| 36 | Holmbom Mikael | SWE-6127 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 1:14 | 0:16:14 | 974 | |
| 37 | Ikonen Pekka | FIN-2140 | 2:58 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:14:58 | 898 | ||
| 38 | Zarins Janis | YL-237 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:50 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:14:50 | 890 | ||
| 39 | Pushkov Andrey | RUS-0815 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:45 | 3:00 | 0:14:45 | 885 | ||
| 40 | Jensen Steffen | DEN-1006 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:42 | 0:14:42 | 882 | ||
| 41 | Sell Janar | EST-0269 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:19 | 3:00 | 0:14:19 | 859 | ||
| 42 | Tähkä Tommi Jun. | FIN-5187 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:25 | 3:00 | 2:45 | 0:14:10 | 850 | ||
| 43 | Tähkä Jyri | FIN-3671 | 2:31 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:10 | 0:13:41 | 821 | ||
| 44 | Anisimov Nikita | RUS-0819 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 1:32 | 3:00 | 0:13:32 | 812 | ||
| 45 | Kilpeläinen Ossi | FIN-275 | 3:00 | 2:50 | 3:00 | 2:58 | 1:30 | 0:13:18 | 798 | ||
| 46 | Grigals Oskars | YL-238 | 1:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:13:00 | 780 | ||
| 47 | Valkonen Kimmo | FIN-4402 | 3:00 | 0:47 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:12:47 | 767 | ||
| 48 | Plume Anrijs Jun. | YL-254 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:35 | 3:00 | 0:51 | 0:12:26 | 746 | ||
| 49 | Vahtra Mikk-Kaspar | EST-0319 | 2:55 | 3:00 | 2:13 | 1:48 | 2:23 | 0:12:19 | 739 | ||
| 50 | Runnari Valve | FIN-2284 | 2:16 | 2:33 | 2:39 | 2:06 | 2:30 | 0:12:04 | 724 | ||
| 51 | Kongstad Karsten | DEN-640 | 3:00 | 1:16 | 1:24 | 0:00 | 0:00 | 5:40 | 340 |
F1B
| POS | NAME | FAI | LAP 1 | LAP 2 | LAP 3 | LAP 4 | LAP 5 | LAP 6 | LAP 7 | TOTAL | SECONDS |
| 1 | Ghio Walt | N-15325 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 6:24 | 0:26:24 | 1584 |
| 2 | Luman Tõnu | EST-0291 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 6:18 | 0:26:18 | 1578 |
| 3 | Woolner Mike | GBR-57957 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 6:10 | 0:26:10 | 1570 |
| 4 | Rosonoks Viktors | YL-006 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 6:03 | 0:26:03 | 1563 |
| 5 | Khrebtov Andrei | RUS-39 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 5:54 | 0:25:54 | 1554 |
| 6 | Isotalo Janne | FIN-3721 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 5:48 | 0:25:48 | 1548 |
| 7 | Peers Russell | GBR-27418 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 5:45 | 0:25:45 | 1545 |
| 8 | Solodov Maxim | RUS-0033 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 4:50 | 0:24:50 | 1490 |
| 9 | Shelepov Alexander | RUS-41 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 2:21 | 0:22:21 | 1341 |
| 10 | Mackus Rolandas | LTU-232 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 5:00 | 0:20:00 | 1200 | |
| 11 | Nereng Vegar | NOR-5769 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:55 | 0:19:55 | 1195 | |
| 12 | Kutvonen Ari | FIN-1842 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:51 | 0:19:51 | 1191 | |
| 13 | Waltonen Yrjö | FIN-621 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:39 | 0:19:39 | 1179 | |
| 14 | Larsen Dag Edvard | NOR 564 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:33 | 0:19:33 | 1173 | |
| 15 | Ancans Jurijs Jun. | YL-293 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:14 | 0:19:14 | 1154 | |
| 16 | Harjo Indrek | EST-0050 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 4:04 | 0:19:04 | 1144 | |
| 17 | Lantsov Alexey | RUS-2352 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:57 | 0:14:57 | 897 | ||
| 18 | Wivardsson Gunnar | SWE-10011 | 2:39 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:14:39 | 879 | ||
| 19 | Isotalo Juhani | FIN-3639 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 1:59 | 3:00 | 0:13:59 | 839 | ||
| 20 | Suhonen Niina | FIN-5119 | 2:49 | 2:21 | 3:00 | 2:41 | 2:43 | 0:13:34 | 814 | ||
| 21 | Linkosalo Tapio | FIN-2500 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:14 | 2:00 | 2:54 | 0:13:08 | 788 | ||
| 22 | Broberg Håkan | SWE-376 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 2:33 | 1:10 | 0:12:43 | 763 | ||
| 23 | Kiiskinen Markku | FIN-297 | 3:00 | 2:59 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:11:59 | 719 | |||
| 24 | Saravirta Anton Jun. | FIN-5116 | 2:17 | 2:34 | 2:59 | 2:41 | 1:09 | 0:11:40 | 700 |
F1C
| POS | NAME | FAI | LAP 1 | LAP 2 | LAP 3 | LAP 4 | LAP 5 | LAP 6 | LAP 7 | TOTAL | SECONDS |
| 1 | Drozdov Alexander | RUS-01555 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 1:26 | 0:16:26 | 986 | |
| 2 | Roots Jüri | EST-0039 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:00 | 0:15:00 | 900 | |
| 3 | Tiho Vahur | EST-0322 | 2:56 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:14:56 | 896 | ||
| 4 | Naaber Raimond | EST-0038 | 2:17 | 2:54 | 2:45 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:13:56 | 836 | ||
| 5 | Truu Kaarel | EST-0196 | 2:38 | 3:00 | 1:17 | 3:00 | 3:00 | 0:12:55 | 775 |
F1Q
| POS | NAME | FAI | LAP 1 | LAP 2 | LAP 3 | LAP 4 | LAP 5 | LAP 6 | LAP 7 | TOTAL | SECONDS |
| 1 | Salminen Heikki | FIN-2246 | 0:03:00 | 0:03:00 | 0:03:00 | 0:03:00 | 0:03:00 | 0:05:00 | 0:20:00 | 1200 | |
| 2 | Lihtamo Matti | FIN-359 | 0:03:00 | 0:03:00 | 0:03:00 | 0:03:00 | 0:03:00 | 0:04:24 | 0:19:24 | 1164 | |
| 3 | Kilpeläinen Ossi | FIN-275 | 0:00:04 | 0:00:26 | 0:01:36 | 0:00:10 | 0:02:16 | 136 |
F1A-15
| POS | NAME | FAI | LAP 1 | LAP 2 | LAP 3 | LAP 4 | LAP 5 | LAP 6 | LAP 7 | TOTAL | SECONDS |
| 1 | Piisi Jussi | 0:01:59 | 0:02:16 | 0:02:37 | 0:02:54 | 0:03:00 | 0:12:46 | 766 | |||
| 2 | Pabos Karl-Markus | EST-0442 | 0:01:38 | 0:01:30 | 0:02:05 | 0:02:26 | 0:01:12 | 0:08:51 | 531 |
Roger M
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