SEN 1258 2/3 Nov 2008
- Details
- Category: Archive 2008
- Hits: 1052
- Patterson - Nov 15 and 16
- USA FAI FF Program Change Realities
- Team Selection Qualification particpation list
- Looking for Yuri
- The P word
2008 PATTERSON FAI INVITATIONAL 2008—SEN version
America Cup Contest
Lost Hills, CA November 15&16-2008
F1A, B, C, G, H, J, P, J, Senior and Open classes combined.
Perpetual Trophy and Keeper Trophy for First Place in F1A,B,C
Keeper Trophy for First Place in F1G,H,J, and P.
New Perpetual Trophy and Medallion for First Place in Nostalgia Wake
Medallions for 2nd, 3rd places
Junior High Time Award
-----SATURDAY-----
Nostalgia Wake: No rounds, Starts Saturday at 0730 and ends Sunday at 1330 but
you must finish flying the day you start. First three flights are 2 min, 3 min, 4 min,
maxes then 4 min FO flights
Round Mini Events F1G, H, J
1. 0730 - 0815 Max 120 sec
2. 0815 - 0900 Max 120 sec
3. 0900 - 0945 Max 120 sec
4. 0945 - 1030 Max 120 sec
5. 1030 - 1115 Max 120 sec
Round Open Events F1 A,B,C,P
1. 1130--1230 Max 180 sec
2. 1230 –1330 Max 180 sec
3. 1330 –1430 Max 180 sec
4. 1430 –1530 Max 180 sec
5. 1530 --1630 Max 300 sec (Max times may be changed due to weather)
Flyoff: Mini event flights to start at approximately 1645. Actual
start time and Max times will be posted at CD table. Flyoff
participants are to provide timer to Organizer 5 minutes before
start of flyoff.
------SUNDAY------
Round F1A,B,C,P
6. 0730 - 0740 F1A Max:300 sec
0750 - 0800 F1B Max:360 sec
0810 - 0820 F1P Max:240 sec, F1C Max 420 sec
7. 0830 – 0930 Max 180 sec
8. 0930 – 1030 Max 180 sec
9. 1030 – 1130 Max 180 sec
10.1130 – 1230 Max 180 sec
Round 6 may revert to a 1 hr round and 180 Max due to weather.
Flyoff: F1A,B,C,P flights to start at approximately 1330. Start time
and max times will be posted at CD table. Flyoff participants to
provide timer to Organizer 5 minutes before flyoff.
Contest will be governed by current FAI and AMA regulations and as
noted. Valid AMA and Lost Hills Association cards required. Score
Cards are to be returned to the CD table every round. This a fly one,
time one contest
Fees: Open: $20.00 For first event - $15 second events.
FAI Jr: $10.00 for first event - $5.00 second events.
Sponsored by the Southern California Aero Team
CD: Hector Diez (661) 834-1063; This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
CO: Jim Parker; This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
USA FAI FF Program Change Realities
The USA FAI FF Team Selection Program (TSP) has only changed significantly after a "disastrous finals" or when championed by TSP Committee or Chairman. The TSC Committee over the last 10 plus years has sent out participant surveys. The bottom-line of all these surveys have been is the majority of participants are satisfied with the program. The single site, fly two days, time one day finals has only seen incremental changes over the last 10 years.
Per recent SEN posting, the anticipated program change discussion again showed the two major camps: Make it easier to participate in the Finals verse a Multi Contest selection process. Or simply put, Quantity verse Quality. We Americans have chosen to balance these two aspects. For the past 10 years I have submitted what I believe is a compromise to the two extreme positions, maintain the single Finals format but make better use of the time together. The team would be the winner of each of two separate seven round contests and the third member being determined by the placement of the two contests. I believe this proposal could work but have come to realize that there would be logistical challenges completing a large number of flyoffs but more importantly it has not gather enough participant or TS Committee support over the tens that I've been preaching the message. Surprisingly, this is not the main purpose of this letter.
My read of the up coming TSP committee in person meeting is the Committee has not received a majority of participants out cry for a major program change and the committee is not internally motivated to make a major change. The incremental change I understand that is being considered is the elimination of the 75 minute qualification. This is being supported by the Participant / Quantity group of flyers. Truth in advertisement here, I was the District 10 TSC representative in early 1990’s that persuaded the TSC to invoke the 75 minutes at in person meeting when the current program was created at the end of the semi-finals program. As a participant that does a lot of flying, the 75 minutes was a low number compared to the effort the pervious semi-finals required to get to the Finals.
Times change and so I reconsidered. My first thought, OK let it go, our community has shrunk and we do not get even 30 flyers at the Finals now. In fact, I have suggested keeping the 75 minutes as is but allow flyers to pay $5 a minute. So a flyer could pay $75 entry, $375 qualification time, $200 Finals = $650 and fly the finals. TSC would be happy with the added "participant, i.e. dollars" and we would keep a few more modelers around for a bit longer. From a pure finalcial stand point the $375 qualification is cheaper than the cost of attending four contests to get qualification time.
My concern is what will this do the programs beyond the few Program? My fear is apying your way into the Finals will become the predominate method for more and more flyers which will weaken the local contests and clubs. How long will it take until the program essentially becomes an every other year contest with little other flying? And then how long before the every other year program dies and the Team Selection process becomes a series of phone calls to see who wants or can go to the next WC. The TSC must seriously discuss this and determine if we should go down this path.
The revelation for me is realizing that those of us that fly a lot are the ones keeping the sport as strong as it is. We are predominately the ones that want a multiple contest selection process and are criticized for wanting to buy our way onto the team. The other side of the coin is those that want to show up every two years and take a shot at the team are doing little to nothing to support the sport. The TSC must understand this and not make short term decisions to cater to those who are putting less into the sport and continuing to ignore those who continually fly and support the sport. I do realize this is a simplification and there are geographic issues that keep some from flying more (be more supportive) but in general I do think this is true.
In the anticipation of the elimination of the 75 minute qualification, ideas have been generated to reward those that do fly over the full two year program. Aram Schlosberg and I discussed the idea of using AmCup points to reward Finals regular round "make up time". There are various ways this could be done but my intuition says this is too large of a change for the participants and / or TSC to accept at this time. I hope my intuition is wrong.
Other ideas abound. Break the paradigm that all 3 events must use the same selection process. If most of power guys really want a 7 round and flyoff Finals--OK let them do so. In reality, by AmCup Participation, they are not far away from a pay and fly the Finals every two years. I’m not ready to throw in the towel for F1A, if the F1A guys can muster a majority to say we want a multi-contest selection program lets do it. Let F1B do what is best for them.
In closing, I urge the TSC to recognize the long term ramification of minimizing the wants of the flyers that support the sport by their continuous flying in order to maintain the participation of a smaller group of infrequent flyers.
Jim Parker
PS-- Mike Roberts, you can come out from behind your van, I still love you.
Team selection qualification contest list
Those who have mentioned that qualifying for the finals (75 minutes) is a hardship may want to see the data. The "contestants" column lists first the number from program entrants, then the number who had not entered the program at the time of the contest. My thanks to all the CDs who sent me reports.
2009 FF Team Selection Qualification Contests
Date Site Contest Director Sanction Contestants
04.22.07 Denver Rick Pangell 07-0692 2 + 0
04.28.07 Seguin Faust Parker 07-0360 5 + 1
04.28.07 Ingleside, MD Tom Kerr 04-0393 4 + 1
05.05.07 Sacramento Bill Vanderbeek 07-1137 1 + 8
05.19.07 Muncie Chuck Markos 07-0676 2 + 8
05.25.07 Paul Crowley Muncie 07-1136 4 + 8
05.26.07 Lost Hills Walt Ghio 07-0194 12 + 32
05.26.07 Denver Pete McQuade 07-0703 2 + 0
05.26.07 Paul Crowley Muncie 07-1135 4 + 8
05.30.07 Waywayanda Andrew Barron 07-0674 6 + 8
06.02.03 Seguin Faust Parker 07-0364 2 + ?
06.09.07 Waywayanda Art Ellis 07-1454 5 + 5
06.10.07 Denver Jerry Murphy 07-0695 4 + 0
06.16.07 Kansas Speedway Mike Basta 07-0823 0 + 0
06.18.07 Pensacola Eddie Vanlandingham 07-0824 3 + 1
06.23.07 Haslet, TX Eddie Vanlandingham 07-0435 8 + 1
06.30.07 Waywayanda Dave Acton 07-0678 7 + 12
06.30.07 Denver Chuck Etherington 07-0696 9 + 8
07.07.07 Palm Bay Joe Clawson 07-1509 1 + 0
07.07.07 North Branch Don Monson 07-0475 1 + 1
07.30.07 Muncie Jerry Murphy Nats 28 + 37
08.11.07 Denver Rob Romash 07-0699 1 + 0
08.17.07 Tangent Mike Roberts 07-1706 10 + 9
08.17.07 Geneseo Lyle Whitford 07-0666 2 + 4
08.18.07 North Branch Dale Mendenhall 07-0415 1 + 0
08.18.07 Tangent Pierre Brun 07-1739 10 + 10
08.25.07 Muncie Chuck Markos 07-0784 9 + 8
09.01.07 Denver Don DeLoach 07-1770 10 + 4
10.06.07 Lost Hills Juan Livotto 1.9.8.5 28 + 33
10.13.07 Lost Hills Mike Mckeever 07-0853 33 + 42
10.27.07 Boulder City Bill Booth 07-1835 12 + 12
11.10.07 Palm Bay Joe Clawson 07-1517 1 + 0
11.11.07 Seguin Reid Simpson 07-1325 8 + 5
11.17.07 Lost Hills Hector Diaz 2.0.2.7 22 + 21
12.08.07 Eloy Elmer Nelson 2.0.4.3 10 + 2
12.30.07 Palm Bay William Barr 07-1480 5 + 5
01.19.08 Eloy Peter Brocks 08-0044 29 +13
02.09.08 Lost Hills Norm Furutani 08-0211 40 + 41
02.16.08 Lost Hills George Batiuk 08-0374 35 + 71
02.24.08 Eloy Victor Lichetenberg 08-0164 2 + 0
03.09.08 Sacramento Walt Ghio 08-0247 1 + 0
03.16.08 Lost Hills Lee Hines 08-0376 33 + 8
04.12.08 Lost Hills John Patwell 08-0653 16 + 5
04.20.08 Denver R. Pangell 08-1255 1 + 0
04.26.08 Seguin Faust Parker 08-0496 6 + 8
04.26.08 Sacramento Bill Vanderbeek 08-0150 7 + 4
05.10.08 North Branch James Ladwig 08-0675 1 + 0
05.24.08 Muncie Chuck Markos 08-0660 7 + 7
05.24.08 Lost Hills Walt Ghio 08-0248 32 + 10
05.25.08 Lost Hills Walt Ghio 08-0404 5 + 0
05.31.08 Waywayanda Dave Acton 08-0669 9 + 21
06.01.08 Seguin Pete Reinhart 08-0520 1 + 0
06.14.08 Pensacola Eddie Vanlandingham 08-0903 3 +1
06.20.08 Muncie Bill Shailor 08-0870 1 + 0
06.21.08 Muncie Paul Crowley 08-0869 9 + 8
06.23.08 Seguin Eddie Vanlandingham 08-1493 6 + 5
06.27.08 Denver Chuck Etherington 08-1311 9 + 7
07.05.08 Waywayanda Dave Acton 08-0724 6 + 8
07.12.08 Lost Hills Walt Ghio 08-1674 6 + 0
07.13.08 Lost Hills Walt Ghio 08-1675 & nbsp; 1 + 0
08.02.08 Denver Chuck Etherington 08-1482 1 + 0
08.04.08 Muncie Chuck Markos Nats
08.09.08 Waywayanda Ron Felix 08-1828 1 + 0
08.10.08 Waywayanda Ron Felix 08-1829 1 + 0
08.10.08 Denver Randy Reynolds 08-1390 1 + 0
08.16.08 Sacramento Doug Galbreath 08-1881 2 + 0
08.17.08 Denver Chuck Etherington 08-1482 1+ 0
08.22.08 Sacramento Doug Galbreath 1 901 1 + 0
08.23.09 Denver Chuck Etherington 08-1482 1 + 0
08.24.08 Denver Chuck Etherington 08-1482 1 + 0
Chuck Markos
Looking for Yuri
Howdy Roger,
I bought some excellent quality F1B hardware items from Yuri
Blazhevich a few years back and I'd like to get some more. I have tried
to contact him on This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. but do not receive a reply. Can
any reader advise if Yuri still has a "cottage industry" and, if so, an
updated email address?
Paul Lagan
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The P word
From: Randy Weiler
Roger,
Nice to finally see a "P" word used...Preparation... way to go... I used to hate to hear Bob Isaacson, Jim Wilson, Walt Ghio chew my ear off on this subject. The truth is, anyway you slice and dice the finals format, anywhere you fly the finals, the people who really learn to prepare for these events will always have a better chance of making the team.
...............................
Roger Morrell