SEN 930 - 2 Feb 2005
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SCAT Electronic News 2 February 2005 issue 930
Table of Contents
=================
F1P at the MaxMen - Slobat
World Cup Participation - Kerger and Simpson
F1E at the Isaacson - Brocks
F1E at the Isaacson - Bauer
EEEEK the EFFC - Wagner
Aviator - Schroedter
Zeeking Out - Mate
Out of Control Aviator - Mate
Web Report: Southwest Regionals - Lidberg
Northrup flying wing YB45
F1P at the MaxMen
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger. Would you be kind enough to put the following message on SEN.
At the Maxmen 2005, F1P will be flown from the F1C line on Saturday
only. There will be 7 rounds, with 3 minute maxes. See you there. gb
World Cup Participation
=========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Here are some messages Roger Simpson and I have been trading regarding the
NAA/FAI membership in relation to the MAX MEN and the Sierra Cup
"international contests". Looks like to me that we contestants in our zeal
to get participation from the world competitors have backed ourselves into
this monitory corner. I think it is best to not put the contest organizers
in a rough position and pleasantly pay up.
You can publish these messages on the SEN if you think it might south some
of the bitter feelings.
Terry Kerger, P.E.
Principal Engineer
CIVILTEC engineering inc.
118 West Lime Avenue
Monrovia, CA 91016
626.357.0588
_____
From: roger simpson [mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 8:25 PM
To: Terry Kerger
Subject: Re: New issue bothering me
Terry,
You can share my email with everyone and can send it to SEN if you want,
along with yours. You asked good questions, I tried to answer them,
hopefully it will answer some questions other people have. By the way, The
FAI Sporting License is no longer required for flying in the team selection
program. If you make the team you are then required to buy one in order to
fly in the World Championships.
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Kerger
To: 'roger simpson'
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: RE: New issue bothering me
PS..Do you think it might be appropriate to send your and my correspondence
to Roger Morrell for distribution in SEN?
Terry Kerger, P.E.
Principal Engineer
CIVILTEC engineering inc.
118 West Lime Avenue
Monrovia, CA 91016
626.357.0588
_____
From: roger simpson [mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:39 PM
To: Terry Kerger
Subject: Re: New issue bothering me
Terry,
1. Pay the $50.00 (and be glad it is not $150.00........ your
words).
2. The requirement for all competitors competing in a World Cup
contest to have a FAI Sporting License has always been there, George and
Mike have been ignoring it, as I did in the past. This year George is
requiring it, as will Mike for the Sierra Cup. The FAI has been putting
pressure on all World Cup contest organizers, requiring them to conduct
their competitions in full compliance with the FAI rules, and the contest
guidelines manual. Many of the international contests (World Cup contests)
have, in the past, been conducted in conflict with the rules and guidelines,
with numerous irregularities occurring, (many countries reward their aero
club members based on their final World Cup standing, i.e. either monetary
or team positions for the World Championships, hence the temptation and the
motive). The FAI now requires a FAI Jury to named and a full report of the
contest, who the jury members were, any protests filed and resulting
decisions, weather conditions, etc.
3, To place a contest on the International Calendar, the contest
organizers submits a FAI International Sanction Form (obtained from HQ AMA)
through HQ AMA to the CIAM (FAI) by 15 November of the current year, for
inclusion on the next years International Contest calendar. The cost is
approximately $80.00 to the organizers. Ian Kaynes as the overall Free
Flight World Cup Administrator selects the two contests from each country
that are designated World Cup Contests. Selection is based on the contest's
reputation, flying field, number of competitors, how well it follows FAI
rules and guidelines, etc. Contests can lose their World Cup status if they
do not follow the rules, a number have been warned, I know of one that lost
their World Cup contest status and I believe are no longer allowed on the
International Contest Calendar.
4. Once the contest is on the International Calendar it is sanctioned
as an international contest by the CIAM (FAI). In addition the contest
organizers must submit a sanction request to HQ AMA for a AMA Sanction for
the same contest. AMA Charges $20.00 for the Sanction (now you are getting
an idea where the contest entry fees are being spent). HQ AMA then requires
that all foreign competitors (except Canadian) purchase AMA affiliated
membership so that they are covered by AMA Insurance. This costs the
foreign competitor $28.00 each year............. The United States (AMA)
is the only country in the world to require affiliated membership for all
foreign competitors.
So, we do not like to be required to spend $50 for the FAI Sporting
License, the foreign competitors certainly do not like the requirement to
spend $28.00 on the affiliated AMA license, especially if they fly in only
one American contest a year. However, if we/they want to fly at this level
of competition, in these competitions, against these competitors, we pay and
fly. No one else puts on any contests......... truly this is the only game
in town. I called HQ AMA last week (Lisa Johnson in the Competition
Department), gave her my credit card number and I had the license in a week.
And I know you would be miserable if you had to watch the contest from
the sidelines while the rest of us flew. I'm ready now, looking forward the
contests, see you there.
Roger
---- Original Message -----
From: Terry Kerger
To: 'roger simpson'
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 7:56 PM
Subject: New issue bothering me
This year, George has made a big deal about the FAI license for the Max men
Contest.
I was wondering how you feel about this issue. It bothers me that George may
force each American entrant to pony up the $50 for the NAA membership just
to obtain the FAI sticker.
I have a problem with the NAA, as they do absolutely nothing for the
modeling membership. And absolutely nothing for me.
I was wondering what sponsorship or sanction authorization is required to
get the World Cup status for the Sierra Cup, and what this means for the
possession of a "FAI sporting license" I checked the FAI sporting code, and
it is implied that since the Max Men and the Sierra Cup are "International
Contests" under the definition that if persons from at least two different
nations compete, it is an international contest and each competitor must
possess "a valid Sporting License of the FAI" I guess it is further
reinforces since there must be some paperwork filed to get this contest on
the World Cup Contest list.
I also know that contest sanctioning under the AMA does not require the "FAI
sticker except at the team finals.
Is this all worth worrying about, or should I just be happy that the FAI
sticker is only 50 bucks for nothing and not like $150?????? For me it is
not the money, it is just that paying for the FAI sticker is like lighting a
$50 on fire. Big waste, and no return.
I guess I have two options. One, pay for the FAI sticker. Two, If George
makes it an issue with me, I can just ask for my entry fee back and see how
he feels about having $25 less in the contest proceeds and one less
competitor to complain and find timers for.
Hope you are fully prepared. See you in February.
Terry Kerger, P.E.
Principal Engineer
CIVILTEC engineering inc.
118 West Lime Avenue
Monrovia, CA 91016
626.357.0588
F1E at the Isaacson
===================`
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
In 2 weeks at the Isaacson Winter Classic we will have the 3rd F1E contest
in America on Monday, February 14 on the hill South of the entrance to the
Lost Hills flying field. We will not only fly F1E but as a separate event we
will have a Mini-F1E contest. Mini-F1E models have a magnet steering device
and a maximum wing span of 600mm or 23.6". Both events start at noon. We
will have 5 rounds of 45 minutes each. We are planning to have fun -
spectators are welcome but should park at the bottom of the hill outside of
the landing area.
In the morning of this Monday we will do some F1E training on this hill and
starting at about 10 AM will do the processing of the models entered in the
F1E Team Selection Contest on Tuesday. All models entered must have the FAI
Specification Certificate, the FAI sticker, must carry an identification
code on each part of the model and must be equipped with a magnet steering
device (see the 2005 FAI FF TSP f/F1E). Lee Hines is the CD for the F1E
Finals.
Peter Brocks, Isaacson F1E event director NEW ADDRESS:
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RE: F1E at the Isaacson
=======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Peter,
Thanks for putting this program together. It seems I never received a copy
of the TSP rules, so if you or someone has a soft copy please send it.
My concern is that I have developed a model that uses a gyro for steering
rather than a magnet. This is perfectly within the FAI rules which state
only that the model "may have a steering device". If the TSP states that
the model must use a magnet to steer, then would my model not qualify? I
assume that the intent of the TSP rule is to prevent someone from throwing a
HLG off the hill and making the team, but since my model is truly steered in
the F1E sense I would hope it would be OK.
I've told several people about my electronic creation and haven't heard any
objections.
Thanks, Ken the mad scientist
EEEEK the EFFC
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger, could you do the EFFC a favor and post that our spring meet is April
30th and May 1st weekend. I wanted to alert anybody that is thinking of
coming to please make reservations EARLY. There is a large motorcycle group
scheduled that same weekend in Rock Hall, a neighboring town. Guys can
e-mail me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. with their address and I will shoot a
flyer out with the list of motels. Or, if they can receive a pdf file I will
send the info that way. thanks, Joe Wagner
Fw: Aviator
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I have to agree with Ed Mate that the movie "Aviator" suffers greatly
from the lack of a good technical advisor. For me the most flagrant
error was the speed runs of the Hughes Racer with the canopy open.
Really! DeCaprio's hair wasn't even mussed.
The impression was given that only full-size aircraft were used in the
filming of "Hell's Angels". I recently rented a video of this film and I
can tell you that models were used extensively; particularly in scenes
of planes crashing into the ground and barrage balloons. Near the end
the hero escapes capture and attempts to fly a Fokker DVII back to his
home base, only to be shot down by his own gunners. That scene, with a
model, is very crude by today's standards. But it was state-of-the-art
back then. Hell's Angels won the first "Best Picture" Oscar.
George Schroedter
George - think the first best picture Oscar was Wings .. maybe
some on in the Biz can confirm ?
Zeeking Out
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
P. S. From Ed Mate, I have drawn up just about all the Zeeks. Thanks to
Lew, Murf and all you great guys that sent me information and drawings.
Just one more to go the 1500 sq. in. monster Zeek. I must talk to Lew
again before I do. I probably am still missing a few. Any more out
there? Not sure about the Dan Lutz Zeeks. Anybody have any of his?
Thanks again, Ed
Out of Control Aviator
======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject : Re: SCAT Electronic News 30 January 2005 issue 929
Bob, ok but when he bellies into the beet field would you say that was
realistic maneuver? It looked totally bogus to me. How are these models
being controlled?
Web Report: Southwest Regionals
===============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Here's the web report on the SW Regionals, held 15-16-17 Jan 05 at Eloy,
Arizona. It covers all 3 contests: AMA/NFFS/SAM FF, FAI FF, & RC OT, plus the M
ECA
Collecto. There are a LOT of pictures plus event results and the file may
take a while to load, but it should be worth the wait.
http://www.aalmps.com/2005swr.htm
We'd like to see YOU here next year!
AL
A. A. Lidberg model plan service
www.aalmps.com
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Northrup flying wing YB45
=========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi, I just discovered your site on my computer, And wondered if you
could help me with some information, I worked at Northrop when there was
8 or 9 of the Y B 45s all in a row on the parking ramp along with one of
the small twin engine test models, It was just before the DIRTY politics
killed the whole project, What a shame. I am in the process of making
drawings to build a flying model with a 90" span. I bought a plastic kit
of the Y B 49 - But need the pictures and figures on where to place the
propeller drive lines ( for want of a better name) I am 80 years young,
and am still interested in building one of that size, Radio controled .
I am a retired machine shop foreman with a complete shop at my disposal
to build landing gear and other control parts. Any pictures or other
info. you may have would be very much appreciated. Ed Millray
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...............................
Roger Morrell
