SEN 852 - 12 Feb 2004
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SCAT Electronic News 12 February 2004 issue 852
Table of Contents
=================
F1?
The Sleeping Free Flight Community! - Barker
No Problems ?
sleepy free flight community - skykieng
SEN is great - Deloach
Electronic Timer batteries - Secor & Morrell
sen/f1-a/molded props - Rocket Ron
Sleeping, do not disturb!
Editorial Sleeper - Martin
team dinials - Wilkinson
The Sleeping Free-Flight Community - Rossiter
Always Lurking
D Box repair Comments-F1P Update - Lorbiecki
F1?
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
What do all these F1_ numbers atand for as models? Is ther really an F1P?
How about a rough list for someone who got lost after F1C?
A = Glider
B = wakefield Rubber
C = Power
D = Indoor ruber
e = magnetic slope
G = Small rubber - Coupe d'hiver
H = small Glider aka A-1
J = small power
K = CO2 power
L = EZB
N = HLG
P = Small simple ? power for juniors
Q = maybe electric
The Sleeping Free Flight Community!
===================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger
I understand your concern about stuff, which may be interesting, being sent
off-line. (BTW should I have said "off-list"? I have trouble with this
email talk) My reasons are as follows.
I do not know if times have changed but I thought that most mailing lists
preferred emails in plain text and without attachments. Any reply that
requires "special" text formatting such as tables or a formula usually
appears as rubbish in plain text. I notice that even simple contest results
are not easy. Also when any of us are explaining something we usually find
that a sketch or a graph is the best way of getting the point across which I
think needs an attachment. The matter of privacy has not yet arisen for me
but the worry about boring other listers by being a) too abstruse b) too
simple or c) too lengthy is ever present!
Regards
John Barker
[John we did some publish attachments and probably would do more
if people wanted that. Originally people did not like
it because of the download time , but now most
people have broadband so maybe it is less of a problem ?]
No Problems ?
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
I don't see the problem. I love getting the scat news and pick up great
ideas. But I do usually respond to the writter directly I have built and
flown FF models for 65 years and at 78 still build everything.
Bill Morez
[Bill why not give other the benefit of your 65 years ?]
sleepy free flight community
============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hey! Just reading the mere thought of dumping SEN was even entertained by
Roger sent a shock through my lethargic bones! Geez! How can sophisticated
sportman's type Free Flight thrive without this wonderful neural network
pulling us back together every week?
The idea of a host of Wakefield flyers -- each secretly plotting to spring
a discus-like suprise at a coming meet has me grinning from ear to ear. I
can see all these guys protectively huddled over their models -- each
unawares of others doing the same. The first round is announced by clouds
of dust flying from scurrying feet as delicate models are whipped around in
a frenzy of momentum. Twing! Twang! Zap! Thud! Models zipping through
the sky, Parts fluttering down, old bodies stumbling over tripped feet before
cascading into ground equipment. Just imagine these secrecy guy's eyeballs
bugging out in surprise upon taking in this wondrous scene...and then the
baffled look as they wonder just how the hell their secret got out.
I would think that F1B a most unlikely candidate for a truly effective
discus launch. With the high drag and low weight to area that distinquishes
F1C the rate of deceleration after launch will be pretty quick. I can not
see them picking up an additional 25 meters. Perhaps 8 meters?? In any case
It will be great fun to see!
And how about this wake up call for F1J fyers? Working away in the highly
secretive Salt Lake Area 51.2 Tony Robertson is putting the finishing touches
on a gorgeous F1J FOLDER. The performance of this ship will be in the
out-of-this-world catagory. It is huge and light. It will get very high and
will not want to come down. Be afraid. Be very afraid! (where does that dumb
expression come from?)
Best, Billious G
[Bill a good RC HLG can get over 50 meters - !!]
SEN is great
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger, I for one think the SEN is a great. It ties FF people together in a
way no other medium can. Please keep it going!
BTW it might be a good idea to mention how much SEN costs you on average per
month, that way people will know how much $ in donations is needed. Also,
what is the best way to donate, a check mailed to you? If so please give the
address
Thermals
Don DeLoach
Electronic Timer batteries
===========================
Author : Randy
[The following is a question that was sent to me about
batteries for my BlackMagic Electronic Timers. I decidade that it
might be of more general interest ....]
Hi Roger,
Tyler got some info from Randy W. on charging batteries, seems he has a
volt meter to check his batteries to make sure they are completely run
down before charging. Seems most of the F1A flyers prefer to recharge
between rounds to be safe. Do these batteries acquire a memory like the
old batteries from the past? Will they be damaged somehow if you top
them off between rounds?
Randy Secor
Reply
-----
Randy
The batteries are NiMH so they are more robust than Nicads as long as you have a good
charger like the Sirus they are probably good for 400-500 charge cycles.
Randy's practice of checking the batteries wirh a volt meter comes from Victor. This
process is not 100% bullet proof because it is not testing the batteries under load.
It tests that the battery is charged but not if there is a bad cell.
The 110 ma batteris should last the day. It does depend how long you tow for. I know
that Lee flew 2 contests without charging on 150 ma Nicads. When I fly with
rechargeable batteries I charge the night before or just before I fly the first
round. My preference is the latter even if it means that you have to get your act
together earlier.
I use 160ma primary batteries in my F1B and they are good for over 40 flights - I
admit there is no towing but it does include messing with the timer on the ground.
During a contest I would charge once - say after round 5 and them before the fly off.
One thing you can do is a simulated contest in your living room. next time you
are watching TV ! - put the stab on - tow for say finutes - let the timer run for a 3
min flight to dt. wait 10 minutes to retrieve the model. Then reset and
repeat
I have a battery test machine that will test the capacity of individual batteries to
see how that are holding up.
Roger
sen/f1-a/molded props
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Rocket's update from sunny warm Alaska
-SEN
Roger never give up! Just delagate. How about an assestant editor-I can
think of a couple of jouners that would benafit from the experance. I
would love to do a shift.
I am so out of the loop up here that with out the exposure I get on SEN I
might drop off the radar intirely. I sit down at this machine two or
three times a day and the first thing I check for is a new issue. Often
I have told my self that I need to make a post just to stir things
up-somthing contraversal like -(insert fai class here) flyers suck.
This is what the rocketearo works has been up to this winter. Check it
out!
-F1-A
fuse pods at
http://www.rocketaeromotive.com/nordiccafe/mobypod.html
-large rubber and carbon/rohcell molded props at(big photos):
http://www.rocketaeromotive.com/nordiccafe/blue/blue.html
I would love to hear any ideas, sugestions, and even exesivly critical
coments regarding the above on the SEN.
Rocket
Alaska USA
PS. note new web adresse
http://www.rocketaeromotive.com
Sleeping, do not disturb!
=========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I remember back in the day,..........when torque was applied to your hand carved Pine
Propellor by means of a "Bow and Arrow" type device with the string wrapped around
the prop shaft,.we made our own glue from maple syrup,... models were covered with
parchment,...You chased the model on a donkey,.....typical maxes were fifteen
seconds,...carbon was only used to draw your original plans on a piece of Birch
bark,..and any respectable free flighter went to contests wearing dress pants, white
shirt and tie! Ahh,...nostalgia ain't what it used to be...!
Just kidding,..I'm not quite that old!
Editorial Sleeper
=================
Roger,
I am an F1B flier from England and one of the sleepers you
mentioned in Wed Feb 11 SEN.
I have read every SEN for the last 2-3 years and value it greatly
for information, contest results, ideas etc. etc. and just whatever`s
happening in Free Flight. Please keep it going.
Regards,
Brian Martin
[Actually Brian I'm the editorial sleeper you are what is
technically known as a lurker.... You note of appreciation
is very much appreciated.
Roger]
team dinials
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Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
rodger.
did you recieve the e mail i sent to cen about the
team finials.
use the america cup points rather than a big one fly
off.
if you recieved this than why wasn't it posted in the
sen?
thx don.
[Don
I have have recieved your previous e-mail. But you did
not send it to the correct email address. mail for SEN
should go the This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. The one you sent it
to is used for other purposes and I do not look
at it regularily. Of late thios other address has collected
the usual junk mail so sometimes I miss items.
With respect to your comment, this has been raised a number
of times before but has been rejected for the following reasons ...
America's Cup contests are club contests so not run to such a high
standard as the finals, for example they would require a jury
and rigorous following of moving poles and correct rounds.
Some AM Cup contests are flown on site where standard maxes and
flyoff is not practical.
There is an econonic hard ship to require people to travel many times
probably between 20 and 25 times !
The America's Cup is organized by SCAT, not the AMA and as such
is not really an offical AMA series.
The finals format with everyone at one place best simulates
the conditions at a World Champs - both in terms of
having everyone fly under the same conditions and a high
degree of emotional tension.
It is not true that I did not publish your note a> because I
did not this a reasonsable suggestion or b> because you always
spell my name incorrectly]
The Sleeping Free-Flight Community***************************
=============================================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Jorgen,
There are still a number of us working on many of the topics you have
suggested. However, I don't think the SCAT news format is very suitable
for the presentation of long theoretical developments or results and so
they tend to appear elsewhere (see for example the many contributions to
the NFFS Symposium Reports). That said, it would be great to see more
discussion in SCAT on the various ideas and proposals.
For your interest, I have written articles on rubber tests (last few Tan
II batches, Tan Super Sport and Tru Torque) which were published in Free
Flight Down Under, a long article on gearing rubber motors, which
appeared in Free Flight Quarterly, and a computer simulation article in
the upcoming NFFS 2004 Report looking at delayed prop release (only
useful if you have a very strong arm) and variable pitch and diameter
props (which I didn't find to be of any great benefit) in F1B, optimum
rubber-propeller combinations and gearing for a variety of classes.
Also, Aviation Modeller International is running a review of my
simulation programs.
These come on top of an enormous amount of material already published in
NFFS and in other journals.
Maybe Free-Flighters have stopped reading as well as writing?
By the way, thanks to all of those friends who responded to my request
in SCAT for the 1953 Zaic Yearbook, I now have a copy completing my set
(another great source of ideas!).
Regards,
Paul Rossiter.
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Always Lurking
===============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger'
I always read the SCAT newsletter and encourage others to do so. I have not
responded before and suggest that many of us are interested in what is written
but don't consider we have anything of great importance to contribute.
I am the president of the Brisbane Free Flight Society and would like to
obtain some KSB 6 minute D/T timers for both my own needs and the newcomers in
to
Free Flight who want to start off with just the DT function. If any of your
readers have got any new KSB's or KSB's in good condition would they let me
know please. My email address : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
John Lewis
D Box repair Comments-F1P Update
================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Thanks to all that commented on the d box repair- Never thought of the flange type
repair. The Brokenspar version is the easiest. Need to make the models first crash
left, then crash right. However, it takes three to make one. Hardy does have the
ability to do ANYTHING, so this should be pretty easy.
So far, we haven't needed much repair. When we break them, we break them good.
Nothing but an Icarex bag of carbon and balsa. Had a neat one when John put up
his first test flight of the 2003 season at Muncie. 5 second run, quick DT, no
wind. Model slowly descends, right into the parked cars. Tried to catch it, but
she still found an antenna on a van. Punctured the D Box right at the wing root,
shuttered down the antenna, and broke the Verbitsky folder prop! Try to do that, all
at once.
Thanks again to all that helped. Hopefully, we won't need it
F1P update- We now have two and 1/4 F1P models ready to play with. The latest has a
carbon molded frontend (23 grams, without engine mount), undercambered wing (Acterberg
style airfoil), 10 gram stab (CF construction), CF fin/rudder, Will use a conventional
glide post arrangement for autostab. Waiting for tailbooms
(Gutai is playing FedEx delivery boy) and then we can complete.
Also, we originally flew one of Vasily's F1J models the last few years. John used this
model at the WC with very good results. However, it was a bit heavy (310 grams with
Icarex). We got a new version of this model from Vasily this year
and it is far superior to the old model. It weighs 273 grams, ready to go. It is
covered with Oracover. The frontend is different and improved. It has a wing
wash adjustment built in. The bunt, autostab mechanisms are far improved. All in all,
a very nice airplane and we are looking forward to testing it after we get rid of 12"
of snow..
Thanks all and see ya at the field...
John Lorbiecki
..............................
Roger Morrell
