SEN 775- January 28 2003
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News and Reports 2003
SCAT Electronic News 28 January 2003 issue 775
Table of Contents
==================
Covering With Saran Wrap - Bogie
MAXMEN INTERNATIONAL
NFFS Nat cup glider proposals from Bob Mattes - Mattes
Towline for Nat Cup - Sweepette Lee
New National Cup Towline Event - MAC the Bigot
Re: FW: AMA/NFFS Towline for National Cup - Parker
question about old published model
F1P and the CIAM - Barker
AMA meets TSA - Sweepette Lee
No Auto Rudder for F1P - Biggles
ranting about auto rudders wrong - Skykeing
FAI CIAM meeting in march - Segrave
Simple P
f1p's are not puppys or mine's a Mad Dog - Shirley
Hungarian Help - Vincent
Covering With Saran Wrap
========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Don,
I tried Saran on a silk-covered and properly doped Zeke wing in the late
50's. Stuck it on with thinned contact cement. Took it to a contest in
Pennsylvania and someone asked me how many coats of dope I applied to get the
extreme shine. Nearby heat will shrink it. Touching the Saran with the iron
it will make a large hole. Saran covering just is not practical. It rips
easily with anything touching it.
I had also covered a B ship wing about the same time with 1/2 mil Mylar,
using thinned contact cement. It worked fine, but was hard to see since it
was clear. I found that it was not waterproof at the point of contact. I
learned from that to dope the edges of the Mylar to seal the holes.
Bill Bogart
MAXMEN INTERNATIONAL
====================
2003 WORLD CUP AND AMERICA'S CUP
PLACE: Bissonette Mirage Field - Lost Hills, Ca. (see map)
DATE: Feb. 14, 15, 16 & 17, 2003
JURY: Robert Norton, Roger Simpson, Alex Andriukov, Jim Parker
SCHEDULE: F1G, H & J Feb. 14th
5 rounds 45 minutes each Starting at 12:00pm
F1A, B & C Feb. 15th & 16th
7 rounds each day 60 min. each Starting at 8:am
Super max will be used for Rds. 1 & 8 (max times TBD)
Reserve day Feb. 17th
Current Sporting Code will apply
F1C fuel will be furnished, castor only
CONTACTS: Contest Director: George Batiuk
1759 Southwood Dr., San Luis Obispo, Ca. 93401 USA
Phone: 805-546-8231 Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
NOTES: ** Entries will be considered late if received by CD after 2/9/03
** EACH competitor MUST submit a separate Entry Form
** Foreign entries must submit an entry form, either
electronically, or by post, but may pay on the field upon arrival
** All non-AMA members must pay $28.00 Affiliation Fee
MOTELS: Lost Hills Motel 6 – Ph: 661-797-2346
Lost Hills Days Inn – Ph. 661-797-2371
AMERICA'S CUP BANQUET
PLACE: Wasco Country Club (see map)
DATE: Feb. 15, 2003
PROGRAM: Dinner & presentation of America's Cup awards for 2002
COST: $20.00/person, $10.00 if under 17
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
ENTRY FORM
MAXMEN INTERNATIONAL
AMERICA'S CUP BANQUET
NAME: ____________________________________________
ADDRESS: ____________________________________________
CITY ST ZIP: ____________________________________________
COUNTRY: ____________________________________________
FAI LIC #:
____________________________________________
PLEASE ENTER ME IN:
F1A $20.00 ____________
F1B 20.00 ____________
F1C 20.00 ____________
F1G 10.00 ____________
F1H 10.00 ____________
F1J 10.00 ____________
BANQUET 20.00 EA. ____________
BANQ < 17 10.00 EA ____________
AFFILIATION FEE 28.00 ____________
TOTAL ENCLOSED ____________
** NO EVENT CHARGE FOR JUNIOR FLIERS
** ENTRIES ARE CONSIDERED LATE IF RECEIVED AFTER 2/9/03
** LATE ENTRY FEE IS DOUBLE NORMAL
SEND ENTRIES TO: GEORGE BATIUK
1759 SOUTHWOOD DR.
SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA. 93401 USA
SEE YOU THERE!!!!
Subject :NFFS Nat cup glider proposals from Bob Mattes
======================================================
NFFS Towline Event
There has been some interest in expanding the glider category in
the National Cup to include a tow line event(s). Over the past
year three proposals have been received which propose some sort
of towline event. The three proposals follow this summary. As
recognized towline participants and/or National Cup glider
competitors, your review of these proposals is requested. If we
can arrive at a set of rules that is acceptable the recipients
of this request I will forward the rules to the NFFS for
consideration of sponsoring the event. Although I do not fly
towline I have taken a stab at consolidating the three proposals
into a set of straightforward rules that captures the spirit of
the proposals. Your comments on the attempt at consolidation
or the individual proposals are requested.
Consolidated Towline Rules
Common among the proposals is a desire for a simple design. To
this end the following rules were gleaned from the proposals. I
have also added three categories aimed at field size as is
currently done in most outdoor events. However I have taken
some liberty in allowing the CD to tailor the event for small
fields that cannot be relied on for even 2-minute maxes.
1. Model Specifications
A. There shall be no restriction as to glider size or
weight.
B. Tow hooks shall not be moveable during flight. Hook
position adjustment prior to flight is allowed.
C. No moveable flight surfaces are allowed except for
autorudder and dethermalizer.
C. Towline length shall be limited to 164 feet. No elastic
lines are allowed. If there is any question about a
towline the CD shall determine if the suspect line
complies with the rules.
D. Each contestant shall be allowed two models.
2. Official Flight
A. Each contestant shall be allowed six attempts to make
the first three official flights.
B. An official flight occurs when the model remains in the
air for 40 seconds or more. Flights of less than 40
seconds may be declared official or attempt, at the option
of the contestant. The contestant’s decision is to be
made immediately and cannot be reversed later.
C. An official flight starts when flag is dropped from the
plane and official timer starts his/her stop watch.
D. Line tangles - See Unofficial flight.
3. Unofficial Flight
A. In the event of a line tangle it will be up to
contestant if flight is official or unofficial. Decision
must be made immediately and cannot be reversed later.
B. An unofficial flight occurs when any part of the plane
is dropped during the official flight.
C. An unofficial flight occurs when the model collides with
another model during an official flight. The contestant
may declare the flight to be official or unofficial -
decision must be made immediately and can not be reversed
later.
D. An unofficial flight occurs when glider is towed to the
ground and the flag has not been dropped from the plane.
4. Flight Categories – Any one of the following flight
categories may be flown as an event at a contest. The category
strictly pertains to the maximum flight time for the first
three official flights and any flyoff flights. All other rules
shall not change unless noted below.
A. Category LF (Large Field) – Maximum flight time shall be
3 minutes for the first 3 official flights. Flight times
shall increase by 1 minute for each flyoff flight (4th
flight – 4 minutes, 5th flight – 5 minutes, etc.)
B. Category MF (Medium Field) - Maximum flight time shall
be 2 minutes for the first 3 official flights. Flight
times shall increase to 3 minutes for each flyoff flight.
C. Category SF (Small Field) – Maximum flight time for the
first 3 flights and any flyoff flights may be reduced
below the MF category if field size or wind conditions
dictate. In this case the towline length shall be reduced
in direct proportion to the reduced max flight time for
the first 3 official flights.
A-1 / A-2 Nostalgia Glider Rules
For All San Valeers Nostalgia Contests
Until Otherwise Changed by NFFS
By: Michael Thompson and Bob DeShields
1. Model Specifications
A. A/1: Projected area of the wing shall not exceed 278
square inches, minimum weight of 5.00 ounces.
B. A/2: Projected area of the wing shall not exceed 500
square inches, minimum weight of 12.00 ounces.
C. Scaling of model size is ok. All other NFFS rules apply as
to construction of model.
D. Each contestant will be allowed two models.
E. Tow line will be no longer than 164 feet. No elastic type
lines. If any questions about a tow line the C.D. will make
the decision.
2. Official Flight
A. An official flight occurs when the model remains in the air
for 40 seconds or more. Flights of less than 40 seconds
may be declared official or attempt, at the option of the
contestant. The contestant’s decision is to be made
immediately and cannot be reversed later.
B. An official flight starts when flag is dropped from
the plane and official timer starts his/her stop watch.
C. Line tangles - See Unofficial flight.
3. Unofficial Flight
A. An unofficial flight occurs when there is a 360? circle made
by the plane during the tow. Flight will be an
attempt.
B. In the event of a line tangle it will be up to
contestant if flight is official or unofficial.
Decision must be made immediately and cannot be reversed
later.
C. An unofficial flight occurs when any part of the plane
is dropped during the official flight.
D. An unofficial flight occurs when the model collides with
another model during an official flight. The
contestant may declare the flight to be official or unofficial -
decision must be made immediately and can not be
reversed later.
E. An unofficial flight occurs when glider is towed to
the ground and the flag has not been dropped from
the plane.
4. Scoring of Flights
A. Each contestant will be allowed two attempts per flight to
make one official flight.
B. Scoring time shall be the total elapsed time of five
official flights, plus the total of all Fly off flights.
C. Fly off flights begin after contestant has five max’s of
three minutes each for a total of fifteen minutes.
Each flight after that increases one minute (6th flight - 4
min., 7th flight - 5 min., 8th flight - 6 min.) etc,
etc.
Proposal from Martyn Crowley
One towline glider class (non-FAI, ie not F1A or F1H) per
contest will be
counted towards the Nation's Cup. Towline glider will include
the following
classes:
Straight-Tow A/1 (to original AMA rules, ie 5 oz / 279 sq ins):
Old Time Glider (to SAM rules, ie pre-1938 ?)
Nostalgia Glider (to NFFS rules, ie 1945 to 1956)
TG-30 (to Black Sheep rules)
Open Glider (to local rules, ie King Orange)
Note: A competitor may enter more than one towline glider class
at the same
contest (if there happens to be more than one) but the
contestant may only
count a single result towards Nation's Cup (ie the contestant's
highest
towline result).
Rationale and Remarks:
Ñ More than one non-FAI towline event at any contest is a rarity
(many
contests currently have no such towline event) and therefore
permitting a
competitor to fly in more than one class, but only count one
score, will
only add to the popularity of towline without biasing the
Nation's Cup
scores versus existing HLG and Cat classes.
Ñ Because there is currently no nationwide towline glider class
(except
FAI) it is proposed to combine all the Special Interest Group
classes
together with any "local rules events" (such as Open Glider or
TG-30) which
might still be in the embryo stage (in the same way that P-30
was in it's
early days). If in the future these towline events change
dramatically in
popularity, their combined inclusion can be reviewed at that
time.
Ñ I realize that time is tight to get such a change in place for
year 2001,
but I hope it can be done in time (the results can be included
retro-actively if we miss the first contests of the year).
A second suggestion might be to add Old-Time HLG to the Nation's
Cup, either
as an additional separate class or along the lines suggested
above as an
alternative to "modern" HLG (ie a competitor could enter both
events at a
contest, but only one score would count ?)
Proposal From Lee Campbell
NFFS Classic Glider
An event proposal
Towline glider events (F1A F1H ) used to be events flown with
simple airplanes flown by many people. Modern circle tow and
zoom launch tactics have made these into events for the serious
only. This proposal will allow simple airplanes to be flown on a
shorter schedule, by more people.
The proposal
NFFS Glider shall be an event for straight tow gliders with no
movable surfaces except dethermalizer and auto rudder. No zoom
or bunt devices, wing wigglers, etc.
There are no restrictions on glider weight or size. The line
length will be no more than 50 meters. No pull test needed.
The glider will be flown three flights with a max of 120
seconds.
Fly off flights will be three minutes . three minutes will
continue throughout the flyoffs.
There will be six attempts to make three flights. An attempt may
be declared for any flight under forty seconds.
Lee Campbell
AMA 7535
P.O. Box 3104
Muncie, IN 47307
Towline for Nat Cup
====================
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Bob,
Thanks for running with this banner.
I have felt including a third event for the points toward the 'National
Glider Cup' would be a wise idea, which some of us have discussed.
I forwarded your proposal email to many I felt would have interest
and provide input.
Here are mine...
Firstly, I feel Martyn is on the right track, in the initial birthing:
If a comp has a non-FAI towline event scheduled, count it for points.
My only deletion in his proposal is to delete his last suggestion, since
there is one HLG event now and a second would give undue advantage to
the more physically arm-adept glider fliers. Towline requires different
physical skills to a large degree and could be an attraction for entering.
Towlines should be tension-limited, but the honor system might be enuf for
starters. Max load of 2 kg should work.
If you decide to set up 'NFFS Towline Class' rules, my comments are...
1. Span=2 meters maximum [alt: 80 in. max]
2. F1A max area and weight rules apply[note: F1H would fit then].
3. No circle tow allowed. [360 degree turn on line=zero flt score]
4. Line tangles not recognized as attempt
[BTW, I suggest 'attempt' in place of 'unofficial flight' thruout rules.]
5. in 3.C:
'An attempt...model or towline during...'[I add 'or towline']
6. Not too sure your '4. Flight Categories' section is necessary,
but I DO KNOW the last sentence on reducing line length would be
resisted, since it would be very hard to do without line damage
or a special line no one wants to have to carry.
Re the San Valeers rules...I don't understand what era they allow, or
why the area rules are inconsistent with any know sizes.
I go to their annuals often, and only see straight tow A1 flown, as I
recall.
As for no. of flights: 3-5 is OK, with 3 minutes maxes where practicable.
But I really want all flyoffs to be controlled to a window of, say
15 minutes, at a chosen, announced time of day.
This gives the feel of the 'EVENT', so to speak, keeping interest peaking
during the day, with anticipation of 'The Big Finale', then closure.
I prefer to fly HLG/CLG in a marked-off pen,too, but that may be for
another forum...
Ciao, Lee Hines
--- Lee Hines
New National Cup Towline Event
==============================
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New National Cup Towline Event: A Good Case of a Bad Idea
I have no idea where this idea came from but it seems like a bad dream,
a can of worms, and a hair brained idea all rolled together into one
big rats nest. To some extent I understand the idea of nostalgia
towline but a new event where a circle tow is not allowed is about as
appealing as a root canal without novacaine. I can=92t think of many
things that sound worse or more torturous than flying any kind of
towline model that has to be straight towed. Only a masochist or a
person who had never flown straight towline would be a proponent of
such an event. I still have vivid memories of gut wretching towing
experiences where the model is coming down around you in a downer after
you have run 1/2 mile upwind and no amount of running speed would get
the model back up and the line taut. I=92m sure there are many former
glider flyers who know exactly what I mean. We already have two
classes of tow line plus the nostalgia event and I can=92t for the life
of me understand why we would want yet another tow line event that has
all the bad features of tow line and none of the new advances that make
it fun and a real sport. Admittedly I don=92t know all the details of =
the
proposed new event but from what I have read so far I give it a great
big thumbs down, negative five stars, no way Jose, and a big barf.
Mac, the fleet footed, Bigot
Re: FW: AMA/NFFS Towline for National Cup
==========================================
james.a.parker
My inputs: I do not recommend the the non restricted size / weight.
(This is how the F1P debacle happened, this will could turn its self into a
high tech event). Build the event around the exsisting A2, A1 model
parameters. The the San Valeers rules have some history and so is likely
the best bet. For example it deals with a tangle style hook. I suggest you
make the A2 area 527 in sq (total wing stab, projected) to be consistant
with the A2 rules going back to the 1940"s? I dont know were they got the
lighter weights or the rational from departing from the age old A2 wt of
14.7 oz. I understand the old A1 was 5 oz so that makes some sense.I
suggest that the rules accomodate many old wood models to be pulled out of
the rafters.
Question, I assume this would also be part of the Nation's Cup Junior /
Senior. This would afford one more development / entry level for the
younger modelers.
Thermals, Jim Parker
question about old published model
==================================
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Hello;
We have an interest in finding an article from Model Airplane news. We
do not know the issue number or date..but approx. 1958. The Model was "the
Champ" and we ordered the plans then..it was a Wakefield Record Holder..FAI-
F1B and the plans were by Powers Lefebre and Sal Cannizzo. We have long
since lost the magazine but have renewed interest in the design. Our
problem is there are references to the article on the plans and we can not
access.. Is there any way we can access your membership or ask such a
general question about these articles? Or maybe an email address to Sal
Cannizzo? Any and all help will of course be appreciated. We thank you now
for your assistance
Respectfully
Don Rotan & Ed Hopper
F1P and the CIAM
================
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I have long been an admirer of the American way of life with its belief
in freedom and democracy and I have always been grateful to American
modellers for their enormous contribution to this incomparable hobby of
ours. Therefore I was not surprised by the outrage of many of you when,
last March, certain FAI officials foisted the F1P on an unsuspecting
world. However, what does surprise me now, nearly a year later, is that
so many of you have softened to this blatant abuse of office. People
have joked about F1P standing for Puppy. I begin to wonder if it is not
the aeroplanes that are the Puppies but rather those aeromodellers who
want to lay on their backs with their feet in the air waiting for their
FAI masters to tickle their bellies :-).
Seriously, what happened over the introduction of the F1P was atrocious
The matter of then quoting a part of the FAI rules to prove that it was
'legal' did not make it better - it made it worse. That anyone could use
some unpublicised aspect of procedure to gain their own ends is
abhorrent to anyone with a belief in democracy. Irrespective of whether
the F1P is good or bad I think aeromodellers the world over should
refuse to have anything to do with it until the dictatorial methods,
conjured up in this case, have been completely expunged from the
procedures of the CIAM.
I do not think the FAI should be writing rules for new classes and
certainly not on the back of their agenda papers during the course of a
meeting. The International classes have been successful for many years
because they were adopted for International use after long proving at
National level. Back in the fifties, when the International classes
originated, the Wakefield had been flown in many countries, with many
rule changes over the years, the gliders came from classes long flown in
the Nordic countries and power was based largely on long American
experience. The much flown French Coupe became the successful small
rubber class. Interestingly the small power class F1J came from the
immensely popular 1/2A but the FAI decided to 'mess about' with the
specification and it has never been really popular since. So, if a
Junior class is needed, which I very much doubt, then it should be
something well proved at National level first.
In any case, do you not see something strange in all this. Is there not
confusion about whether we are dealing with Juniors or Beginners. If the
hobby is trying to attract new flyers, as is so often said, then surely
they will be Beginners and the classes they need to fly are simple
aeroplanes at club level until they are experienced. If, on the other
hand, these flyers are not Beginners but are only young then what is the
need for a special class for them to fly? The recent performances of
some American youngsters probably answers that! Does it not devalue your
hobby in some way when, what you have striven for all your life, a place
on an International team, should be treated, by the FAI, as the first
step for a beginner? Is there some hint here that if the correct bit of
factory produced equipment is purchased then it does not matter who
presses the start button?
The FAI is not completely omnipotent although I am sure it would like to
be. The danger is that every time an oligarchy imposes a ruling without
discussion it makes it even easier to do it the next time. I strongly
urge that nobody gives any support to F1P but instead thinks carefully
about what classes might further aeromodelling in their own country and
tests those classes on a National basis.
By the way the idea of promoting the 'good ol favorites' from the past
is a blind ally. If you want to fly Vintage then go and do it but don't
expect those models to attract Beginners to the FAI scene and certainly
don't expect Juniors to enthuse over what you cast off forty years ago.
Before closing I must state that I do not regard Ian Kaynes (nor the
American representatives to CIAM, from what I have read of them) as
being the 'enemy'. Indeed Ian's contribution to International Free
Flight has been immense. However, there has always been this secretive
and dictatorial core within the FAI and it should be opposed as
vigorously as possible when the occasion arises.
Regards to you all.
John Barker - England
[The main issue to do with modellers ignoring this is
that it deprives Junior Modellers, who we are or
should be trying to encourage from going to
the World or Euro Champs]
AMA meets TSA
==============
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Hi Roger,
In reference to past comments on airport security problems with
aeromodels, I see the AMA has met with the TSA[Transportation Safety
Administration]to try to inform and resolve the screening issues for
our materials in checked baggage.
See the AMA website modelaircraft.org for more info.
Lee
No Auto Rudder for F1P
======================
Biggles
* For SEN:
Reply to Skykieng - No Auto Rudder for F1P
..."The auto-rudder isn't outlawed. Is it? If selected, that is your
one choice ?"
Admittedly the F1P rules just published in January 2003 are vague,
misleading and completely untried and untested, but here's what the
wording specifically says on the subject of auto surfaces:
?"Only ONE change ?to the wing OR tail ?incidence OR camber"
However, a traditional auto rudder on the tail is really a "trailing
edge flap" or "plain flap" hinged so that it can be deflected,
typically in either normal (or retracted) position for power or
deflected (or extended) position for glide. In the deflected
position the camber is increased relative to the effective chordline
(the line from LE to TE), and so too does the effective angle of
incidence as measured from the LE (fixed) to the new position of the
movable trailing edge (deflected). Just check in any standard
aerodynamics book and they give good illustrations with explanation
of exactly this case that we use for auto rudders. Therefore, a
traditional auto rudder tab certainly changes BOTH incidence AND
camber of the vertical tail airfoil and consequently is now outlawed
by the F1P rules as written, and would leave anyone wide open to
protests and disqualification from other "locked-down" flyers ! (An
all-moving tail will escape this ruling, if the airfoil shape remains
fixed and unchanged and only the angle of incidence relative to the
airflow is changed from power to glide). The rules are very cleverly
worded on this point, evidently to prevent Juniors from using a
normal auto rudder. How else could you interpret such uniquely
strange rulebook wording ?
[With respect to Auto rudder - there was a question right
back at the beginning of this
saga and Ian Kaynes clarified that and auto rudder was OK. It
did not count a horizontal flying surface. I realize
that Biggles would require this to be translated into French
and both copies notarized....]
ranting about auto rudders wrong
================================
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Roger
I have been suffering lately from a bad case of dis-information ... and in
particular deluded about F1P and auto-rudders. Reid Simpson straightened me
out with a summary of the rules below. I had mistakenly assumed that an
auto-rudder was considered a "change" and that it was an either/or choice
between it or an auto stab, etc. Sorry for adding to the confusion.
Billious G.
Bill:
Rules for F1P are:
Minimum projected in the wing alone is 403 sq. inches
Maximum wing span is 59.06 inches
Maximum motor is .061
Propeller, no restrictions
Fuel, no restrictions
Auto rudder, no restrictions
Allowed one change of camber or position of wing or stab (change stab
incidence(auto stab) or change of stab camber), OR or (change of wing
incidence(auto wing) or change of wing camber(flapper)). BUT note only one
change allowed prior to DT.
Weight minimum is 8.33 ounces
10 sec motor run
No Brake
3 min max
7 flights
These rules were clarified with Ian Kanes, GB, Free Flight Technical
Director CIAM
Hope this helps
Reid
FAI CIAM meeting in march
=========================
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November. In light of the disastrous meeting in March 2002 when we were
saddled with the ridiculous F1P class, perhaps the American delegate to the
March '03 meeting could have all items to be discussed listed in a
forthcoming SEN so that we ,us freeflighters, could get some idea as to what
might be sprung on us this time from the one man F/F committee? Yes, one
man, that's what I said. Reportedly there were other human being in
attendance but for some unknown reason, were all struck dumb!
Perhaps there is a groundswell of protest at the way the previous meeting
was conducted, albeit within rules formulated by the SAME committee. If not,
perhaps there should be.
I would have thought that the publicising of these proposals would have
ALREADY taken place. Or have I missed something?
Regards
Mike S
Simple P
========
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Where have all the Good Guys Gone?
I am amazed at all of the conversation on the "puppy situation.This is a
simple model to design or use any proven old time good ; flyer.I have built
two of these models and have only flown one with outstanding results and .
think this event is very basic and should remain that way to encourage
junior flyers.Forget all the auto -surfaces,carbon fiber and "d" boxes and
get back to our roots where a little stick and tissue will do the job.I
remember my early days flying with Frank Ehling when he built several 1/2As
using; trailing edge stock for the leading and trailing edge
of the wing with no spars and drew an airfoil using the sole of his shoe as
a template.The thing flew so well not only did it become "kitted"by
JASCO it went
on to win the nationals.Have we come so far that we have lost sight of
our roots?This can either be a simple and fun project to perhaps open the
door of youth
to our sport and should not become technically overwhelmed by the applications
of a bunch of old exprienced ;flyers potificating their oppinions to
complicate that which could be and should basic simplicity.I think we all
have to think back and remember how well all that old stuff flew...and
try to get people
interested and not scared away by all this overwhelming ; technical
speculation,DONT THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!! ;DO IT ;Offer help and not advice.
I will be glad to put my money where my mouth is and help any junior
participant in my area.I will also offer my designs as well and help to
anyone interested. in the program. Without the engine and timer I think
I built two models for less than twenty five bucks total.
f1p's are not puppys or mine's a Mad Dog
========================================
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just thought I'd pass on some f1p info. I drew up a plan some months ago
for a f1p
and shelved it until recently. last month I built it with flat bottom
airfoil 8% thick 7.25" cord main panels tapering to 5.25' tips 60.75
square stab and Oliver fuselage. power was a cyclon .049 vassily folder
and 50% fuel. testing went well and power pattern was straight up with
right turn to glide after engine cutoff the only real problem if you can
call it one was the power setting on the stab was barely below the glide
setting, I launched it once in glide to see what it would do and it went
up fine just not straight up. the performance was very good. after 10
seconds it was higher than my f1j with cyclon 061.and the glide was slow
and smooth and it dt'd just fine. construction was basic balsa with
diagonal and straight back ribs,spar was .022 carbon top and bottom and
.007 carbon front and back on .187 balsa spar and tissue covering on
wings and stab
if were trying to get kids involved then lets pass on info on how to
build and fly these and save the gripping to ourselves.if were trying to
chase kids away then lets keep the adult complaints coming. listening to
adults complain usually doesn't get kids interested in anything.by the
way I gave my design the name "mad dog"
Hungarian Help
===============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Help,
I am going to the World FF champs as an NZ FIB team member, with my
wife Moira as a supporter.
We have been trying to find accommodation, our booking agent cannot get
any of the places listed in the World Champs Bulletin 1 with faxes or
emails to answer, including Gabor the organiser.
Can anyone with a knowedge of the area please help.
We can get to the field and back from New Zealand. But nowhere to stay
at the contest.
Lincoln Vincent
.......................
Roger Morrell
