SCAT Electronic News 27 March 2001 issue 562
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SCAT Electronic News 27 March 2001 issue 562
Table of Contents
=================
For sale - Bob Wiehle's Motorbike - Tilson
Proposition de News pour le site FAI - Kaynes
CIAM Meeting, 2001 - Bogie
F1A Bunt Parts - Parker
Re: Moment arm - Boutillier and SkyKeing
National Cup Contests - Mattes
Cheaper Glider Launcher - Bauer
Foot and mouth [ UK News] - WEoodhouse
Bulk up ? - Woodhouse
Reductor ad absurdum - Woodhouse
CG Location - Boutillier
California FAI Invitational & Canadian Cup - Norval
SO Props - Norval
paper airplanes - Salzer
Broken Attachments - Salzer et al
Thanks
For sale - Bob Wiehle's Motorbike
==================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Our family is interested in finding a buyer for Dad's Honda 70 Motorbike.
It was just recently (November last year) repaired by Bob Tymchek to running
condition and has a new seat (Christmas gift two years back and never
used!).
We (the family) would like to see this little motorbike continue to chase
planes as long as possible rather than becoming a home for wayard spiders
and such in our backyard. The (starting) asking price is $700.00 OBO (any
reasonable offer will be considered). Please include this notice in the
next e-mail you issue. Anyone interested can either call (818) 343-4787
(Home phone) or e-mail to me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
Thanks much,
Lorna
Also would anyone be interested in a 1986 Honda Accord LX, needs a
windshield (big crack)and some minor electrical work (drivers window wired
backwards (up is down, down is up) and it sticks, Interior is in good shape,
new timing belt, new master cylinder, newly done breaks and tune-up,
electric windows (yeah three work great), four door, automatic trans., AM/FM
Cassette (antenna doesn't go up or down any more), Power steering, has a
little under 138,500 miles on it, air conditioning, heat, power door locks,
etc. asking price starting at $1,200.00 OBO. And yes, I'm brutely honest
about what is wrong with it, but would hate to stick it to a Model flyer or
anyone else for that matter.
Proposition de News pour le site FAI
====================================
From: Kaynes
News about free flight matters at CIAM Plenary meeting March 2001
Ukraine proposal for "World Cup" teams at championships - rejected
Ukraine proposal for timekeeping - refered to subcommittee
Germany proposals for 20 sec attempt rule not to apply if the model
dethermalises - passed for F1A, F1B, F1C and to be used as a local rule at
championships in 2001.
Germany proposal for synthetic lubricants in F1C - withdrawn.
Ukraine F1J proposals - all proposals were rejected.
Hungary F1K proposals - withdrawn
Other business: there was no proposal on the agenda re geared motors in
F1C.
Championships: Hungary awarded 2003 F1A F1B F1C World championship, Germany
awarded 2003 F1D indoor European championship.
CIAM Meeting, 2001
==================
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Here are the results of the CIAM meeting in Lausanne, Switzerland for F1.
Volume F1 - Section 4C - Model Aircraft - F1 Free Flight
3.1.5 Class F1A approved
3.2.5 Class F1B approved
3.3.2 Class F1C withdrawn
3.3.5 Class F1C approved
3.J.2 Class F1J withdrawn
3.J.3 Class F1J withdrawn
3.J.7 Class F1J withdrawn
3.J.8 Class F1J approved only for Junior class
3.K Class CO2 all proposals withdrawn
There was no discussion of geared motors since that subject was not on the
agenda. Away from the meeting, little talk ensued on this subject.
Within a week I shall write a more lengthy report of goings on and comings
off at the beautiful Olympic Museum facility in Lausanne.
Bill Bogart
F1A Bunt Parts
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger, for SEN:
I'm putting in an order for aft bunt parts. See Aug-Sept NFFS. This will
include the drum, boom ftg and arm with nut with the shoulder screw pivot.
The user will have to make the Cam piece and do the final fit and assembly.
The cost will be 35-40 per set.
I don't need the $ now but if you want or might want these parts, put in your o
rder now. I will not be ordering any "reserve" parts.
Contact by email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Thermals, Jim Parker
Re: Moment arm
==============
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Hi Bill and Marion,
The moment arm, in JR-BB formula, is taken from leading edge of stab MAC to
trailing adge of wing MAC.
But pehaps does it works only for conventional models, or at least a K
factor is good for a given family of models.
For instance low wingers should have a lower K factor than models with the
same planforn but with a pylon.
Hoping it helps.
Thermals.
Bernard
> Dear Bernard
>
> Read your cryptic comments on SCAT with great interest. I
> don't monitor FFML so don't know what all the discussion was
> about concerning c.g. location.
>
> You didn't specify from what points the moment arm is
> calculated from. On the Bogart system the moment arm is
> taken from the leading edge of the MAC to the quarter chord
> of the stabilizer.
>
> Using a K factor between 66 and 69 I came up with a MAC c.g.
> of 44.5% and 46% on my new F1C using the above measuring
> points --(But I may have used the wrong moment arm) From the
> Bogart Tvo formula It looked like 40% would be a safe
> position for my rather small Tvo.
>
> Please let me know how to measure. (You could clarify that
> at the SCAT site also) My airplane is a folder, and rather
> extreme, using a 10% stab with a much shorter than usual
> tail boom. It is a rather venturesome move and I'm feeling
> my way with caution in determining the unusually forward
> c.g.
>
> What factors go into determining the K factor? Dynamic
> problems with long noses, perhaps?
>
> Appreciate your help!
>
> Bill Gieskieng, Denver, CO USA (aka Skykieng)
>
>
National Cup Contests
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Although the Scat newsletter is primarily I would appreciate your =
publication of the following relative to National Cup contests or lack =
thereof.
It seems that the America's Cup series of contests has materially =
increased participation in FAI events over the last few years. For this =
reason some farsighted individuals, myself not included, started the =
National Cup program last year and considerable interest has been =
generated. There remains one problem however in that many contests that =
offer National Cup events are not applying for National Cup =
consideration and many that are listed as National Cup contests have =
combined events which eliminates those events from consideration. By =
substituting a few non-combined events for the combined events and =
applying for National Cup status this contest just might attract a few =
more participants. =20
Ideally all contests offering AMA events would be National Cup contests =
and all events would be offered. I recognize that this may not be =
practical due to manpower limits for score keeping and possibly cost =
considerations for awards. One possible solution to the manpower limits =
at local contests is to have contestants help out with scorekeeping. I =
would suggest that when one enters the contest he or she select a time =
slot, either 30 minutes or 60 minutes depending on size of entry =
expected, where that person must help with scorekeeping or provide an =
alternate person (wife, friend, older kid, et al) to help. Time slots =
could be posted on in the score board area as a reminder. The earlier =
you enter the better your selection of time slot. If you don't show for =
your time slot you loose unless you have one heck of a good excuse =
(broken leg, plane stuck in a tree over 100 feet off the ground, ----). =
Don't believe that this requirement to help would violate any AMA rule =
and should be workable for events not flown in rounds.=20
As to costs for the awards, why not just give out certificates. Not =
many of us really need any more trophies to hide in the back of our =
closets or plaques to clutter up the walls. A simple computer generated =
certificate can be generated and handed out at the contest. To add a =
bit of pizzazz the certificate can be personalized and mailed to the =
winners at a later date.
To evaluate the efficacy of the above ideas the Central Indiana =
Areomodellers are holding a contest on June 4 and 5 (yes those are not =
weekend dates) where all of the AMA National Cup events will be offered =
in all of the specifies age categories for earning points. Certificates =
will be given out and we will request that all entrants volunteer to =
help keep score for a total of one hour sometime during the two day =
period. A large chart will be provided where each entrant can print =
their name to reserve their time slot. NOS gas National Cup events are =
not being offered as they are part of the CIA's NOS/Old Timer contest on =
June 2/3.
I would like to receive feedback on what you all think of the above.
Bob Mattes
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Cheaper Glider Launcher
=======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I wrote about the simplest possible glider launcher a couple years
ago, but I guess everyone forgot.
Forget about wood, wires, rods, nails, screws, etc.... Just take 2
plastic bags - grocery bags or small trash bags, and fill them up with
very light weight filler material like foam "peanuts" used in packing,
or maybe paper. Put the 2 bags on the ground spaced far enough apart
so that each can support one wing of the model close to the wingtip.
Place the model on top so the nose is 12 to 18" high, and the stab is
nearly touching the ground. The bags will mold themselves around the
shape of the wing to provide good support, but since they are so light
they will just fall out of the way when the model is pulled off for
launch. There should be plenty of room in between them for the stab
to clear, but even if it should hit there will be no damage from the
light weight bags. Also, since the model is sitting only about 12"
above the ground, there will likely be no damage if it should fall off
accidentally or from a gust of wind.
Ken Bauer
Foot and mouth [ UK News]
===============
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Foot and Mouth
This is the latest from the FFTC.
"Here is the latest information we have regarding flying during the Foot
and Mouth outbreak.
All BMFA Free Flight events are under review and the forecast is that most
scheduled for March and April will be postponed. Check with event organisers
for the latest position.
The Free Flight Nationals is just outside the timescale we can plan for so
no decision has been taken as yet about it's taking place. However, if the
foot and mouth outbreak continues the event may very well be under threat.
As soon as any firm decision is taken, news will be on the website."
Please note that there have been further changes to the revised calendar. I
will send details on request.
The way things are going it looks like it's like it will be some little time
before we are able to fly again. Listening to the news and adding to the
projections the time it takes to get up and running it seems to me that the
earliest will be mid-summer.
However we should not despair things will return to normal given time. As
far as I'm concerned I'm now into interior decorating as I no longer have
the excuse of I need to go flying to test the new models!
Michael J Woodhouse. - Free Flight Supplies is now Rapier powered!
All mail to: -
web site: -
Bulk up ?
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Roger:
> I want to whole heartily endorse Paul
> Crowley's thoughts on rescinding the 30 gram rule, which will go into effect
> next January 1.
>
>
> George Schroedter
I agree with George. There is/was no need to make the change to 30 grams.
The issues should be sorted by the structure of the event. The holiday on
Ice was such a contest. They adopted the ideas I proposed a few years ago
in a Sympo and thew problem has been sorted. Basically match the number of
rounds, max time and when during the day the event is flown according to the
field and the weather.
Michael J Woodhouse. - Free Flight Supplies is now Rapier powered!
Reductor ad absurdum
====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Printed on System : aeromodel dot com for scat
on Date : Sun Mar 25 03:22:26 2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------
on 19/3/01 4:39 am, SCAT user at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:
> That leaves us with F1A which has
> been stable since the towline was reduced fromm 100 meters to 50, but since
> we are all getting older and unable to run, won't be worth changing anyway.
> Just kidding...or am I ?
Chuck
Just tie the buggers legs together with all those wasted 5 gram rubber off
cuts!
Michael J Woodhouse. - Free Flight Supplies is now Rapier powered!
All mail to: -
web site: -
CG Location
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Something has disappeared in the wording of the formula in SEN 560,
though it appeared duly in FFML.
It should read:
stab area x moment arm x wing span x K factor , all this divided by wing
area squared.
Thermals
Bernard
California FAI Invitational & Canadian Cup
==========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
California FAI Invitational & Canadian Cup
Great, this contest now has World Cup flavor. It is of course still =
an America's Cup for us yanks???
[Yes it counts as one America's Cup]
SO Props
========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
S/O Props
Hardy, The best props I have used are the blue p-30 props cut down to the
limited size. You can scrape a single edged razor blade along the props and
take off a least a gram or two balancing it as you do this. The high school
students I work with have put a piece of brass tubing in the hub to act as a
bearing. The brass would be also used at the front end of the model for the
prop shaft to go through. The biggest problem I have had is getting the
students to pratice winding rubber. They are a little apprehensive about
winding one till it breaks to see how many winds can be achieved.
Good luck, Larry
paper airplanes
===============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
After the MaxMen we went to a holiday in Maui, Hawaii, where I found
something to recommend to all model airplane fans happening to be there:
The Paper Airplane Museum at the Maui Mall, Kahalui.
The man responsible, Mr. Ray Roberts, has collected an incredible amount of
information and samples, not all flying or flyable, however.
He furthermore occupies himself with the recycling of beverage cans, turning
them into all sorts of sculptures!
Highly recommended!
Klaus
Broken Attachments
==================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
None of the attachment could be opened:
.jpg- files "truncated" (obviously ... length given as 16 bytes)
.pdf-files "do not start with %pdf"?? (length of SlfLnchr.pdf also 16 Bytes,
TCC-JUN-01.pdf 6.34kB)
My problem or yours?
Klaus
PS Short attachments happened before, but was not interested in them!
[Klaus ... and others
yes the attachments are broken. I will fix it but am very busy so it
will have to wait a bit]
Thanks
======
Thanks to Bob Waterman for his donation to support SEN.
...................
Roger Morrell
