SCAT Electronic News 10 December 2001 issue 653
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SCAT Electronic News 10 December 2001 issue 653
Table of Contents
=================
FIC and cost - Thomas
Why FAI Competition - Lorbiecki
On death & dying - Morez
Toy Phoenix - Bennet
2002 New Zealand WC events - Murphy
glow plugs for shurkin engines
Galeville Update - Davidson and Hatschek
FIC and cost
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
So we have had all the troubles with F1C debated, but the participation
rates continue to decline. I think it be cost not progress and think in
terms of other money than the US dollar!
Reading that $US8000 would get participation may be little money to an
American but that is $15700 AUD to an Australian. So the cost of 2 geared
F1C models and equipment is more than the advertised cost of a brand new
Mitsubishi Mirage or Hyundai Accent automobile ($14490AUD on the road
including government and dealer charges) in this country. Continued
inflation of the US dollar by the foreign exchange dealers against other
currencies has turned an affordable hobby into something going
rapidly out of reach to many people who do not live in USA. I have spent
much money on my hobby in recent years in terms of airfares and
accommodation costs, travelling outside Aus in most years, but now the
choice may be too limited. Before ranting against other people decrying
the progress and the new costs, try converting the cost in US dollars into
other currencies and get a surprise. So which do I choose, a brand new
Japanese car or a couple of geared F1C models?
Dave Thomas
Why FAI Competition
===================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I know I already wrote on this subject, but I have more, after a bit
of retrospect. I looked at the toys I have in the garage and
suddenly it dawned on me.
FAI IS the Holy Grail, as my friend Ross stated. It is the pinnacle of
modeling. There is a bit of awe when you show up with even a few year
old model. The AMA only flyers DO look at you differently. You normally
are somewhere else on the flight line, crouched over a starter
and "evil" 80/20 fuel dripping from the once intact bladder. You have
a complete set of the smallest screw drivers to turn all those 1-72
and 2-56 adjustments. Launching in 3 second bursts to get that elusive
bunt and transition just right. Not a bit of dt fuse in site. Smiling
when the transition is just right.
It is personal fulfillment that makes the sport. It could be the vertical,
screaming climb. The chase into the neatherlands. The good feeling
you get when the model DT's at 3:05 and softly decends. Or maybe it is
the people you meet. Gutai's, Johannes's, Allis's, Gunder's, Wagner,
Stiles. Just add the name and you know what I mean.
Cost? I have a $4000 trailer, $18000 Super Comp dragster, and $20,000
truck to tow the whole thing from race track to race track. That is the
cost to race locally . It is just part of the show. Yeah, I can win
$1200 at every race I go to, but I haven't. It is the thrill, the feel
of speed, the noise, the people. Sounds like F1C to me!! Yeah, it costs
to be with the best, but I have watched the best drop a flight with
their super trick, hammer down best of everything hot rod model. Silk
does thermal as well as Icarex sometimes.
But, we are trying for the Silver Cup, aren't we? It takes skill, dedication,
time, and, I am afraid, money. Part of the event is rounds. Yeah,
that means you only fly FAI, but that is where its at. Standing at
the flightline, model posed, ready to burst into the blue. All the
other stars also waiting. It is the Indy 500 of modeling. At the NATS,
John T flew F1C, F1J, F1A and still flew 5 other events.
Norm Poti does it all the time. It can happen, but ya have to plan and
not have too many problems. Selling the event is a bit complicated, but
it can be done. You just need to find the truly dedicated person.
However, there will be fallout because it is so intense. We used to
have a group of F1C only flyers in my club. They lived and breathed F1C.
John and I are all that's left. Yeah, a few passed on (God bless Bob
Whaley, Gil Graunke, Rol Anderson, and George Versaw!) but the others
lost the intensity that is needed. That is the nature of the event. As I
am finding out, F1J can also be this way. Intense, but the models are
so cool, a bit like a junior fuel car.
Archer, Keck, Galbreath, Gutai. These are the guys we try to emulate every
launch. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Yeah, I think we should
ban gears. Just my opinion. Or as stated, no folders.This would take a
big chunk outta the initial cost, but there will always be a latest
and greatest trick part.
So, finally, do we need to be saved? Nah, I think that the event will
continue. It just will be with the most dedicated (there is that
word again), head strong modellers in the country. My bud Brodersen is
my hero. He has planted more carb on trees than anyone I know. His skills
tho are among the best. He pereserves when others would be swinging
at golf balls. When Hardy quits, that's when the event is dead........
John and John T. Lorbiecki
On death & dying
================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
At the 41 Nats in Chicago,which was almost entirely a FF
contest Sal Taibi won "C" gas with a time of 1482.7. He beat Ray Accord
by 1.1 seconds. There were 121 entrants in that one event. "B" gas had
275 flyers. I did not know it then but that was probably the apogee
point (as far as numbers goes) in the orbit of free flight modeling. I
built my first model airplane in 1931 and I have been building and
flying them ever since. There was a minor break for WW2 and a little
time in a B25 but ever in navigation school as a cadet I tried to build
models and got into trouble for the effort. I have attended ten
Nationals, three World FF Championships and have spent countless happy
hours on the field of battle at Taft and Lost hills. So I have watched
the slow but inexorable decline in the numbers which has produced the
chorus of wailing about the impending end of FF modeling. You will
notice no similar cry from the RC crowd. That vast and growing bunch of
happy flyers are doing very well. I love the sport as much as all of
you writers to SCAT do and I do enjoy all of the comments made about how
to save the sport and especially the wonderful FAI events Art Ellis
thinks we just need to be better salesmen to rope in more
builders/fliers.He thinks we should show them what we do and that would
be good except that we always go way out in the middle of nowhere to
places which seem desolate to most normal people to do what we do.
Others decry the cost and complexity and talk of going back to locked up
all balsa designs which would be cheaper and easier to build. I don't
know. Jim Mosely (a Lurker) thinks that the FAI fliers "are treading a
very narrow path towards an uncertain future" and he is ofcourse
absolutely right.But really is'nt all progress gained by traveling just
that uncertain path. ? And is'nt that "breathtaking performance" that
Billious G mentioned and which is so hard won a worthy end in itself?
And should we be trying to dumb this thing down so as to get bigger
turnouts. I was just a cheerleader at the recent Worlds Championships
and I watched those beautiful little machines (and maybe they are toys)
do their astonishing ballet in something close to stunned disbelief. If
you are a painter,which I have been for most of my life, and you stand
directly in front of a painting by John Singer Sargent and contemplate
what he did with a brush and paint you might feel the same kind of
thrill: a kind of stunned disbelief. You just shake your head and think;
Oh my God. I have always felt that all of this concern about the
future of our beloved sport/hobby was pretty useless. On my 75th
birthday I went alone to our great flying site at Taft Ca. and flew a
Goldberg sailplane. The ghosts of many departed flyers were all that
shared that field that day. Goldberg would have loved the serene way his
great design floated in big beautiful circles that near dead calm air.
That was pure freeflight modeling. As the numbers continue to shrink
don't worry so much about life support plans. If it's going to die out
someday then it will die. Even stars die eventually.Meanwhile rejoyce in
the fact that you can still do it and cheer on those who push it to the
limit. Sorry for all this rambling. I promice not to do it again. I
gotta get back to building table. I'm building my first F1B.
Another Lurker/cheerleader Bill Morez
[as a comment to this and other that are lamenting declining numbers
etc. I've just come back from the SCAT December meeting. At this
meeting we reviewed the particpation in America's cup events. There was
certains some bad news in that some events are not getting much
particpation. But the good news is that overall particpation
over the last 3 years has increased. It is particularily encouraging
that this is true in the Mini events as well as the 'main' events.
What is also encouraging is that in these events people are having
a go with all categories of models. If I look at F1H , I would guess that
two of the most popular models would be Victor Stamov's all singing,
dancing and electronic machine and Stan Buddenbohm's Mini-Master,
two models at the different end of the $$$ spectrum. Both are
outstanding models that cater all pocket books and level of
commitment. I expect both models give their owners a
great amount of satisfaction and sucess.]
Toy Phoenix
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
In a message dated 12/6/01 9:35:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:
of the Pheonix"? Don't you remember when...>
No, Bill, I missed that one. However, I think we can agree that toyness is
subjective, and when a flyer says, "Going out to fly my toys.." he may
mean it without sarcasm. For example, when I return to the flight line
having just thrown a contest max in HLG, I feel I have really accomplished
something. When I return to the flight line having maxed with my mostly
bought F1B, I feel like Alex Andruikov has really accomplished something.
Guess which one feels like a toy.
Mark Bennett
2002 New Zealand WC events
==========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
To all interested, we have had a few hiccups with both the NZMAA and Dave
Ackery changing websites. Full information on the events, accomodation,
entry forms, contact pers etc is now available at:
(1) the NZMAA site: www.nzmaa.org.nz/ff2002/
(2) at Dave Ackery's Free Flight NZ website:
http://communities.msn.co.nz/FreeFlightNewZealand_whatsnew.msn
(note there is an 'underscore' symbol following the 'd' in New Zealand,
which is hidden by the auto-underline function)
See you at Omarama in March
Chris Murphy
glow plugs for shurkin engines
==============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Does any one have a source for shurkin glow plugs, or a modification to =
use another plug?=20
Galeville Update
================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
In a message dated 12/9/01 12:19:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. writes:
> This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
>
Congressman Gilman and Brian Walsh,
I agree with all that's in this letter. We (the Skyscrapers) and the modeling
community really appreciate your work on the Galeville project. It sure is
amazing how so much "Wrong Information" is put forth when a governmental
agency just doesn't want to help constituents.
I again want to thank you and hope we can, again use the Galeville facility
in the near future.
Sincerely,
Larry Davidson
1 Salisbury Drive, North
East Northport, NY 11731-1338
AMA 118
SAM East Coast VP #2174L
Member NFFS
Larry
>
>
> Robert L. Hatschek
> 316 Grosvenor Street
> Douglaston, NY 11363-1011
> Phone: 718/224-3908
> Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>
> December 5, 2001
>
> U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> Wallkill River National Wildlife Refuge
> 1547 County Route 565
> Sussex, NJ 97461-4013
>
> Attn: Steven Kahl
>
> Dear Mr. Kahl:
>
> This letter is written in comment on the draft Compatibility Determination
> (CD) on model airplane activities at the Shawangunk Grassland National
> Wildlife Refuge.
>
> First, let me establish my qualifications to comment. I built my first model
> airplane in 1936 at the age of 11 and have continued this activity
> continously ever since, with the exception of time spent in overseas service
> during World War II. I entered my first competition in 1938 and my most
> recent one in October, 2001. I have competed in or attended meets in many
> parts of the USA, in several European countries, and in Australia. I have
> represented the USA on its World Championship team, placing second
> individually and leading the USA to a Team Championship. I am a member of the
> Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA), the National Free Flight Society (NFFS)
> and the Skyscrapers model airplane club. I have no commercial interest in
> this sport/hobby, and derive only minimal income from occasional articles I
> have written for various hobby publications. The Galeville site, which you
> refer to as the Shawangunk Refuge, is approximately 100 miles by road from my
> residence and I have considered it my "home field" since modelers were first
> granted access to it nearly 30 years ago.
>
> Second, I resent the timing and distribution of this document. It obviously
> was prepared over a lengthy period of months, if not years. Then it was
> mailed with no indication of its overall distribution (which I am sure was
> minimal) just after Thanksgiving - at a time when the nation is preoccupied
> not only with the Holiday Season but also with a shooting war. And you
> generously give concerned citizens all of 45 days to respond. If nothing
> else, I would plead for an extension of this period.
>
> Then, the CD in question is rife with errors and exaggerations, if not
> outright falsehoods, on the subject of free flight (FF) model aviation.
> Perhaps the most egregious mis-statement is the assertion that FF gliders are
> towed into the air by ATVs. This is ridiculous! Launching such gliders
> requires considerable agility - the ability to change or reverse direction
> instantaneously. It requires skill, not requiring any great power or speed
> beyond the capability of a person on foot. In 65 years of model flying on
> three continents, I have never seen or heard of anyone attempting to launch a
> glider from a bicycle or any other wheeled vehicle.
>
> Although it is true that bicycles and powered mopeds or "mini-bikes" are
> often used for model retrieval, the use of ATVs is extremely rare because of
> the difficulty of transporting them to any flying site. Furthermore, the use
> of any of these (bicycles, mopeds, minibikes, or ATVs) off the runways at
> Galeville is virtually impossible because of the extremely rough condition of
> the ground (the "hummock-hollow topography which presents a safety hazard to
> anyone walking in them"). Indeed, walking through this terrain is difficult
> and is, therefore, kept to a minimum. Wheeled transportation is almost
> exclusively limited to the paved runways, taxiways, and the few dirt tracks
> running east-west. Once a retriever is near his model, he dismounts and does
> indeed walk to the model. Also, there is increasing use of radio tracking
> devices (the transmitters in the models weigh approximately 4 grams) to
> pinpoint locations, thus minimizing the retriever's "intrusion" into the
> grassland.
>
> The comment is made that, "Model airplane activities would interfere with
> Refuge mowing." Does this mean that such mowing would be scheduled on
> weekends, when virtually all model airplane activities take place? These
> model activities have long been scheduled to avoid conflict with activities
> scheduled by the US Military Academy (such as parachute practice and even
> sports car rallies) and to avoid conflict with training activities of the
> FBI, who essentially left the field unused on weekends and holidays.
>
> The CD also indicates objection to unleashed dogs and children. Modelers have
> no objection to leashing the dogs or banning them entirely. As to the
> children, however, the older ones are interested participants in the model
> aviation activities and it is unlikely that the younger ones would be harmful
> to the birds or the environment. Certainly the children of the modelers would
> be no more objectionable than the children of the bird watchers - and I doubt
> that Fish and Wildlife have any strenuous objections to their participation
> in bird watching activites.
>
> As to the reactions of birds and model airplanes, many times I have observed
> hawks and buzzards soaring in the same thermals with models and once (in
> Austria) an eagle. I could observe no reaction or interaction.
>
> On the other hand, I constantly see the following behavior of waterfowl: I
> live on a peninsula on the North Shore of Long Island just within the City
> Limits of New York City. West of the peninsula is Little Neck Bay, within the
> City Limits. To the east is Udalls Cove, largely outside the City Limits in
> Nassau County. During the seasonal migrations, Little Neck Bay tends to be
> black with ducks of many varieties and other waterfowl, while very few can be
> seen in Udalls Cove. The reason: discharging firearms is prohibited in NYC,
> but not in Nassau County. I note that the CD proposes to allow hunting at
> Shawangunk. I suspect that grassland birds would react in much the same way
> as waterfowl and avoid the area.
>
> Finally, I challenge the CD's estimates of every item in the "the projected
> annual costs to allow model airplane flying." Every item in this budget is
> either totally irrelevant, unnecessary or grossly overexaggerated, as
follows:
>
> Biological monitoring. Is this not a routine procedure? There is no increment
> resulting from model activity. Modeling activites would not reach 64 days.
> Law enforcement. Unnecessary.
> Maintenance. Unnecessary.
> Administrative. No increment required by model activities.
> Fuel/Vehicle. Unnecessary.
> Equipment Use/Replacement. No increment required.
> Port-A-Potty Rental.
> Garbage Pickup. Performed by modelers.
> Total incremental cost: Zero
>
> For competitive events:
> Additional Port-A-Potty rental. Paid by modelers, as required.
> Parking area development. Totally unnecessary...but with approximately 8000
> feet of paved runways, 8000 feet of taxiways, plus additional connecting
> taxiways, parking area development could not require more than a few buckets
> of paint.
> Additional law enforcement, monitoring, and garbage pickup are not necessary.
> Total incremental cost: Zero
>
> Yours truly,
>
> /signed/
>
> Robert L. Hatschek
> AMA 647
> NFFS
> The Skyscrapers
>
> cc: B. Gilman, US Congress (c/o This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
> D. Mathewson, AMA (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
> R. Stalick, NFFS (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
> R. Langelius, Skyscrapers (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
> S. Krivin, Skyscrapers (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
> J. Pailet, Skyscrapers (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
> W. Hall, Times Herald-Record (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.)
>
................
Roger Morrell
