SEN-389 March 20 2000

News and Reports 2000 - First half
SCAT Electronic News 20 March 2000

Table of Contents
Holiday on Ice
content - Brooks
acoustic-tacometer - Reverault
who ever competes wants to win - Stiles
Winning manufacturer at SCAT Annual - Brun
AmCup 2000 - Parker
Norway - Abad
Coloring Polysan
F1C Timing - Gutai
Yugo World cup
Where is this RDT ? - Ross

Holiday on Ice
1 Kimmo Kulmakko FIN 930 420 1350
2 Pekka Ronkanen FIN 930 377 1307
3 Robert Hellgren SWE 930 300 1230
4 Jaro Valo FIN 930 283 1213
5 Brian Van Nest USA 930 262 1192
6 Mikael Holmbom SWE 930 215 1145
6 Stefan Rumpp GER 930 215 1145
8 Herbert Hartmann SWE 930 208 1138
9 Lars Larsson SWE 930 207 1137
10 Victor Stamov UKR 930 97 1027
11 Matti Lihtamo FIN 203 180 180 180 180 923
12 Heikki Tahkapaa FIN 210 180 180 180 169 919
13 Sofia Wivardsson SWE 200 180 180 176 180 916
14 Per Findahl SWE 195 180 180 180 180 915
14 Deniz Varhos SWE 195 180 180 180 180 915
16 Igor Yablonovsky UKR 210 180 180 180 161 911
17 Sergei Makarov RUS 202 180 180 180 168 910
18 Mikhail Kotchkarev RUS 185 180 180 180 180 905
19 Timo Pajunen FIN 210 180 152 180 180 902
20 Ulf Edlund SWE 203 180 180 152 180 895
20 Goran Trogen SWE 175 180 180 180 180 895
22 Henning Nyhegn DEN 210 136 180 180 180 886
23 Inge Sundstedt SWE 183 180 180 162 180 885
24 John Pettersson SWE 167 180 180 167 180 874
25 Pieter De Boer NED 189 144 180 180 180 873
26 Svein Olstad NOR 170 180 171 165 180 866
27 Vesa Varuskivi FIN 210 180 180 112 180 862
28 Mathias Farber GER 162 180 180 154 180 856
29 Valerei Poliev RUS 159 177 169 164 180 849
30 Juhani Kuninkas FIN 210 180 136 123 180 829
31 Vegar Nereng NOR 81 180 180 180 180 801
32 Dag Larsen NOR 188 154 173 162 119 796
33 Chris Murphy NZL 210 144 78 160 180 772
34 Anton Van Eldik NED 42 180 180 180 180 762
35 Tommi Isotalo FIN 210 4 180 180 180 754
36 Anders Klementsen NOR 114 154 125 175 113 681
37 Juoni Malm jr. FIN 143 138 140 120 115 656
38 Gyri Klungrehaug jr. NOR 91 89 138 156 180 654
39 Anders Persson SWE 162 82 33 180 180 637
40 Valve Runnari FIN 0 180 154 115 180 629
41 Atle Klungrehaug NOR 179 180 65 40 129 593
42 Håvard Amlie NOR 112 145 144 52 84 537
43 David Oldfield GBR 137 74 96 - - 307
44 Turo Tuominen jr. FIN 66 0 - - - 66

1 Bror Eimar SWE 930 413 1343
2 Per Skjulstad NOR 930 409 1339
3 Stephan Stefanchuck UKR 930 403 1333
4 Yrjo Watonen FIN 930 376 1306
5 Viktor Rosonoks LAT 930 356 1286
6 Igor Vivchar UKR 930 342 1272
7 Walt Ghio USA 930 320 1250
8 Pim Ruyter NED 930 314 1244
9 Michael Jåckel GER 930 312 1242
10 Tor Bortne NOR 930 286 1216
11 Alexei Bukin UKR 930 282 1212
12 Harald Meusburger AUT 930 280 1210
13 Håkan Broberg SWE 930 276 1206
14 Gunnar Purins LAT 930 265 1195
15 Rich Rohrke USA 930 264 1194
16 Alexander Chelepov RUS 930 245 1175
17 Klaus Salzer AUT 930 241 1171
18 Jan Wold NOR 930 225 1155
19 Manfred Hoffmann GER 930 220 1150
20 Michael Woodhouse GBR 930 186 1116
21 Gunnar Wivardsson SWE 930 45 975
22 Nilserik Hollander SWE 206 180 180 180 180 926
23 Pekka Saari FIN 210 180 180 167 180 917
24 Ole Torgersen NOR 195 180 180 180 180 915
25 Juhani Isotalo FIN 210 164 180 180 180 914
26 Lanne Isotalo FIN 188 180 180 180 180 908
27 Janne Forsmann SWE 210 180 180 144 180 894
28 Maxim Solodov RUS 210 180 180 180 134 884
29 Mikael Ericsson SWE 131 180 180 180 180 851
30 Bernhard Aslett GBR 210 180 180 180 32 782
31 Alexander Andriukov USA 186 180 175 180 0 721
32 Ossi Kilpelainen FIN 188 109 104 123 180 704
33 Teuvo Pakarinen FIN 193 156 158 4 160 671
34 Jerry Fitch USA 210 126 - - - 336
35 Brian Russell Peers GBR 181 - - - - 181
36 Michael Woolner GBR 149 - - - - 149

1 Juri Roots EST 960 256 1216
2 Kaarle Kuukka FIN 960 212 1172
3 Timo Niiranen FIN 225 180 180 180 180 945
4 Gunnar Ågren SWE 209 180 180 180 180 929
5 Andreas Lindner GER 240 139 180 180 180 919
6 John Cuthbert GBR 212 - - - - 212

Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I'm starting to get frustrated with the state of electronic communications
in free flight, at least in North America.
A few weeks ago I asked for some advice on aspect ratio and
turbulators, and received 3 helpful replies. This doesn't suggest to me
that many people are interested in using this forum for promoting this
kind of discussion. Over the past year my impression is that very few
topics involving design or building have appeared here.
Recently I have renewed my interest in controlline stunt an have
been browsing the 3 of the web sites available. On RC online I counted
147 questions and replies since March 16. The topics ranged from flap
percentages, engines, handles, lines, kits, molded fuselage construction,
and other web sites, to name just a few. Not one question about rules!!!
These sites offer a facinating journey through the maze of technicali=
ties that surround controlline stunt, with commentary from the very best
competetitors and wise sages of the dicipline, and nary a whisper about
rules!!! Why, they even argue about the advantages of this or that
technique, but not, as far as I can tell, about the rules!!!
Could it be that:
a) their rule work for them, and are a match for the kind of models
they fly
b) since their evaluations of their performance are subjectively based
(judges) they have more tolerance for uncertainty
c) they have an unwritten moratorium on discussing rules
d) It's more fun to talk about how to do it and share your ideas with the
e) rather than being able to see the end of the road they are actually
enjoying a rebirth of interest in their sport
f) ?

I would like to invite all those who share an interest in learning
more about free flight to forward their questions and responses. Maybe we
could drown out, or at least balance, those endless discussions about

For example:

I notice that a lot of people who use aluminized mylar on their
wings colour the underside black. Could anyone tell me how to do this
without adding much weight? What will/won't stick to mylar? Could I
spray on a really thin coat of Sig black, after I degrease the mylar? Or
maybe epoxy? What about permanent marker, is there a way to get this on in
one smooth coat, and not have it look like it was used for scribbling

Jim Brooks

Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

In search of acoustic-tacometer for F1C

I should like to know if you sell acoutic-tacometer for F1C , or else =
where I could buy them ?
Thank you very much . Sincerely Michel .

Le Grand Cornet St JEAN
79100 THOUARS France
T=E9l Fax 05 49 68 01 55
Email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

who ever competes wants to win
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Roger how are you doing havent talked to you a whole lot lately. all this
talk about cheating makes me sick. its so bad to see this kind of stuff on a
page thats trying to help a sport or hobby that all of us love. we all come
from different paths that life has taken us but the fact is we all love free
flight . wether we are lawers doctors scieniests or gamblers there there is
nothing like flying free flight model airplanes. I believe that we all have
some admirible virtues no matter what we do or think the deal is we all love
a dying sport or hobby whatever you or anybody wants to say thats the bottom
line is its about over . we should make the best of the years left. the way
it is now nobody new to the thing would ever want get involved especialy if
they read this page. I think that if a guy wants to cheat let him its his own
name that he has to live with forever.I got beat by a guy in the soep box
derby in 1973 by a guy with a magnet in front end that gave him a jump
start when the gate went down he was from boulder colorodo and from the lange
skI boot familiy. I guess thye bottom line is I dont care if you cheat all I
want to do is enjoy somthing that is in my blood and will be for as long as
it lasts.or we could destroy what we have left with all this bull..........
its a progresive thing like airfoyles lets let it role till it over and have
a good time doing so. roger if you can correct the spelling I been a little
loose tonight., charlie stiles

Winning manufacturer at SCAT Annual
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


the winning model in F1A at the SCAT annuel was a full long wing Makarov


> F1A
> Stamov 2
> M&K 1
> F1B
> Vivchar 2
> Andriukov 1
> F1C

AmCup 2000
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


Seems like the 1999 AmCup was just a few days ago. With the SCAT Annual
complete, the 2000 season has three contest. I'm modifying the result
format. Below is a set of abbreviations for the 2000 AmCup schedule. Most of
these were used in the first years of the AmCup by Al Hotard. Please put in
SEN. CD's and clubs, please e:mail me if you would like another
abbreviation--- less than 4 letters.

Thermals, Jim Parker N89015@aol,com

SWR- Southwest Regionals- Eloy ,AZ
MM- MaxMen 14 Rounder- Lost Hills, CA
SCAT- SCAT Annual- Lost Hills, CA
SCTX- Spring Cup- Seguin TX
EFFC- Eastern FF Champs, Ingleside, MD
NCal- NorCal FF Champs- Sacramento, CA
BA- Big Al's Shootout, Lost Hills, Ca
F5F- McLaughlan Fiesta 5 Flags - Pensacola, FL
FFC- US FF Champs, Lost Hills,CA
InC- Intercity FAI Muncie, IN
MMM- MMM 14 Rounder-Denver, CO
TCC- Texas Cloud Climbers, Allen TX
USOC- US Outdoor Champs (NFFS)- Muncie, IN
NWFF- Champs, Tanget, OR
ESC- Empire State FF Champs, NY
NWC- IMAC & Bong Eagles FAI Invit.-Muncie, IN
CIA- CIA, Hoosier Cup, Muncie, IN
OC- IMAC Autumn Cup, CFB Borden Ontario Canada
WFAI- Western FAI Challenge- Harts Lake, WA
SWC- S.W. FAI Challenge, LasVegas, NV
DC- Dynasty Cup-Denver, CO
CFAI- Calif. FAI Invit. (Livotto's)-Lost Hills, CA
SC- Sierra Cup- Sacramento, CA
AC- Autumn Cup USAF Aux Field- Seguin, TX
PC- Patterson FAI Challenge- Lost Hills, CA
SA- Skyscraper's Annual- Maryland
KOI- King Orange Intl- Palm Bay, FL

Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Just received a phone message from Norway: F1A,
1.-Kimmo Kulmakko +420
2.- Ronkanen FIN +377 4.- Jary Valo+283
Hope to see more later.
Javier Abad

Coloring Polyspan
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Dear people:
I need help, please tell me if you know of a product to add color
to polyspan that comes in a spray can as I don't have a spray machine. Thanks
any help would be appreciated

F1C timing
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Roger, (This is in reply to Bob Mattes) and also to Bob,
Apology accepted. And I guess I owe you one also. A little history of
the events at the Nats. may be in order. My wife, who timed my flights
at the Nats., now refuses to time anymore. On one occasion, when either
returning or picking up my flight card, she overheard a remark which she
thought concerned her. Something concerning cheating. I don't know who
said it or in what context it was used, but it did upset her. The sad
part is she enjoyed timing very much, And was quite good at it. I had
her practice timing engine runs and compared her time with other people,
and she was almost always within a few hundreths of the other timer.
Anyway, I'm sorry if I misconstrued your remarks and went off

By the way, I've looked at your calculations and I seem to have
exaggerated the difference in timing between the two locations. Never
bothered to figure it out. While in some cases I can now agree with you,
I still have a problem with close runs. Given the case of a run of
5.06sec.-5.09(and some times, they are that close, especially flyoffs)
it is quite possible to get 5.1(which is over)or a few hundredths more.
Also, if we consider some worst cases, such as when the model goes flat
and ends up at 400 ft. altitude and 300 ft. downwind we then get a
difference of .13 sec. This added to the 5 sec. the timer gets gives us
an over-run. In these cases, I feel that we need to back-up or
double-check from the flight line.(If we really need to check.) Also all
of these calculations assume exactly the same reflex time for both
timers. Well, we both know they can vary by several tenths.As you may
have surmised, engine runs have gotten to be a rather sore spot with F1C
flyers. It wasn't too bad at 7 sec., but 5 sec. has made it tough. If
you think I'm bad, you should hear Randy Archer on the subject.
Now as to Ed Keck's infamous quotation, yes I'm afraid he did say it,
but not in the way you took it. I got it from Ed just before I wrote my
letter to SEN. I am sure it was meant only about the timing of engine
runs from upwind and nothing more. I'm sure Ed appreciates the work CD's
do to run a contest, as do I. And I did have explicit directions from Ed
to use it. If you need to talk to him, he will be in Florida for about
5 more weeks. Phone no. is (941)349-3996.

The funny part about this whole thing is I really have no interest in
RCDT one way or the other. At present there are enough gadgets on F1C
models to suit me. I don't picture me using it anytime soon, even though
it's been legal for F1C for 15 or so years.

All the talk about adjusting the glide in flight, to me is not RCDT.
That is RC. Hit one button, one time, tail pops up, model comes down,
RCDT, end of story.
Bob Gutai (The Alien from PA)

World cup
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.



Bulletin No.2


Where is this RDT ?
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Hey guys, I'm a sport flyer and I thibnk we outnumber the contest flyers by
at least 20 to 1. I think RCDT would be a great boon for the sport flyer. In
the years 1984-1990 I lost 14 models at Galeville. I got 12 back but some
after 3 months in the woods. I would install RCDT at once and so would a lot
of my flying buddies. I haven't seen it advertised yet. Where can I get one
? Don Ross

[Don there is actually only one RCDT in 'production'. It is part of the
Danish Multi-Function FAI timer made by Torleif Jensen. It uses 35 mhz
radio parts from Becker [I think]. It's not practical for what you fly.

Ken Bauer has made some prototypes that work with my Black and Red Magic
timers. These are on a liecense free frequency. They will also work
with other electrconic timers and you could make your own actuator.

With the radio DT you need some form of actuator. This is why it is easy
to make them work with an electronic timer. For the sport FFer like your
self what is needed is a simpler electronic timer that would just do
D/T or maybe D/T and motor and work with the RDT. It should not require
and extrnal programming device like most of the timers for FAI FF do.

In addition Ken's RDT may be a little too expensive for the sport flyer
because it has some expensive components to weigh only a gram and
give it about 2 mile range. This was a requirement from Victor Stamov.
Ken has also looked at RDT that would be significantly cheaper but have
shorter range .. I do not know what cost he could get in do to for
the other kind of sportsmen.

Similarily I have figured out how to make an electronic timer that would
be practical in an airplane like a Coupe or Gollywok. I just havn't
done it because I spend my time doing this !

Roger Morrell

This entry has been read 1895 times!