SEN-393 March 27 2000
- Details
- Category: Archive 2000
- Hits: 1047
News and Reports 2000 - First half
SCAT Electronic News 27 March issue 393
Table of Contents
=================
US World Champs Proposal
World Champs - Hinson
CIAM - Kaynes
Icarex [not] under a Bushel - Gregorie
RDT - Kaynes
San Valeers Annual - Thorkildensen
Icarex is extreemly tough - Lane
Icarex Questions
Lung powered sprayer - Salzer
Van Nests on Ice - Van Nest
Stamov Supplies - Van Nest
FOR SALE: F1A BUNTER, VICTOR STAMOV ENTRY LEVEL - Kruse
US World Champs Proposal
========================
The US World Champs proposal was submitted by the AMA [the national Aero Club].
Dave Brown, the president of the AMA spoke in support of the proposal. The AMA
is supported by the NFFS as the recognized special interest group for Free
Flight in the USA. The person heading up the effort was George Batiuk Jnr.
George is well known to most people in the international Free Flight community.
He has been flying internationally since the 70. He has been the Team manger for
the US team on a number of occasions and will take the Junior Team to Romania
this year. He is the CD of the MaxMen International and is an active F1B flyer,
gaining many podium finishes in World Cup events. George was helped on the
proposal by many people, including Hardy Brodersen, Bob Waterman, and Dan Tracy.
For the World Champs George will be helped by members of the Southern California
Aero Team and all the Free Flight modelers in the USA. The letter below is from
a sportsman who lives on the other side of the USA, about 2500 miles away – who
is already planning on coming to Lost Hills – either in the Team! Or to help
out.
World Champs
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
I would like to thank all of those that worked to get the 2001 World
Champs in the USA.
I'm sure that as many of the Florida Modelers Association members as
possible will be glad to help in any way they can with the event.
Rex Hinson
CIAM
====
Sender : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger
As promised earlier here is an edited ASCII report of the CIAM report for
SEN publication (feel free to edit further if you need)
Attached file demonstrates the working of the new extended max rule - Word
format preservation helps clarity.
Ian
CIAM Plenary meeting, Lausanne, March 22 to 24
First day FF Technical meeting (FFTM) attended by
Pierre Chaussebourg France
Mike Colling UK
Marius Conu Romania
Martin Dilly New Zealand
Luca Gialanella Italy
Josef Hacar Czech Republic
Wilhelm Kamp Austria
Ian Kaynes UK
Thomas Koster Denmark
Andras Ree Hungary
Kurt Sager Switzerland
Loureiro de Sousa Portugal
Daniel Tracy USA
Gerhard Wobbeking Germany
Mikhail Zanciu Romania
Anselmo Zeri Netherlands
The CIAM Bureau had made a proposal which basically consolidated the
current guidelines on rule changes: the Sporting Code is nominally frozen
for a 4 year lifetime, and changes are not made to introduce rule changes
in the same year as the World championships in a class. Thus changes made
this year or at the 2001 Plenary for classes F1A, B, C, E will come into
force in January 2002, changes agreed at the Plenary meetings in years 02
to 05 will come into effect January 2006.
Number of Models. Denmark proposed removing any limit on the number of
models in F1A, B and C. At the FFTM Thomas Koster explained that the
proposal was based on a number of ideas:
a) that in a sport the rackets, etc, are used as tools and are not limited;
b) that it can be unfair to stop someone flying if they have lost models,
e.g. inside a military compound;
c) without detailed processing people may have a lot of models in their box
with the same markings so that they can cheat the present rule, so it
should be legitimised.
Views against that at the FFTM included:
a) unlimited number could have models treated as disposable - adding to the
cost and making it difficult to process models after a flight;
b) the choice of which 4 models to enter was part of the strategy according
to conditions expected and unlimited models would increase pressure to have
a fleet of models to suit all conditions (e.g. a set of still-air models
and a set of rounds models);
c) the Sporting Code now includes a requirement to mark the selected four
models entered in a competition and so the possibility of cheating has
already been removed.
FFTM opposed the proposal, voting 3 for, 9 against. The following day the
Plenary meeting rejected the proposal, 4 for, 24 against.
Radio control DT. Denmark and Germany had both proposed allowing radio
control DT for F1A and F1B and Italy had proposed it for F1E. Discussions
at the FFTM included doubts about there being much advantage in competition
use whereas there was risk from having the radio control onboard then being
used for other functions like trimming or steering. It was agreed that
there was considerable advantage in having RDT for trimming on small
fields, but the facility could be removed for competition flying. Anselmo
Zeri explained that he sometimes practices with motors from lower grade
rubber and compensates by increasing motor weight up to 45g - no problem
when flying on your own but obviously you fly legal motors in competitions.
FFTM opposed Denmark proposal 4 for and 7 against, and also opposed the
German proposal 5 for, 6 against. Plenary meeting rejected the proposals,
voting 4 for, 24 against on Denmark and 4 for, 25 against on Germany. The
situation was different for F1E. Partly as a result of different conditions
when flying the class - it could be easier to see specific trees, etc,
which might represent a danger area - but also it was later in the meeting!
The FFTM voted in favour of RDT in F1E (6 for, 4 against) and it was passed
by Plenary (11 for 3 against). Maybe there was a subtle plot to persuade
some Americans keen on RDT to take up F1E ??
Removal of 20 sec attempt rule. Denmark proposed removing the 20 sec
attempt rule. The reason was partly the familiar logic argument (drop one
second below a max puts you out of a flyoff, then why should a very bad
short flight be rewarded with another attempt), and also to eliminate the
possibility of DTing down to achieve an attempt when desired with RDT (if
RDT was accepted). FFTM noted that the change had been unpopular when the
rule had been removed some years ago and it was reintroduced by popular
demand. FFTM opposed the proposal (3 for, 8 against) and it was withdrawn
at the Plenary meeting.
Duration of Flights. There were two similar proposals (FFSC and Denmark) to
allow extended maximum flights but differed in whether they included the
extra time only to determine a tie (FFSC) or included it directly in the
totals (Denmark). The FFSC system aimed to reduce the emphasis given to a
good performance by a high performance model in a long still air round -
which could serve to determine the result in one flight at the begining of
the event (with consequent anti-climax and discouragement of others). The
FFSC system required the competitor to demonstrate consistency by flying 7
flights of 180 before counting the extra time. The Denmark proposal had the
benefit of using the current simple method of a total. During the
discussions the problem was raised of retrieval time after longer fligths.
Obviously this would have to be allowed for in setting round times,
including time for setting timers between announcing the max and the start
of the round. This thread was then continued towards reducing the number of
flights from 7 to 5 - fewer but more meaningful flights. Discussion can
continue towards further proposals to Plenary meeting next year....
FFTM voted first on the principle of allowing a longer maximum for flights
when conditions were suitable, supporting the concept 9 for, 2 against.
FFTM was not able to choose between the FFSC and Denmark proposals - 4
votes for each proposal. At Plenary the principle was supported 25 for, 3
against and then the choice vote was 17 for FFSC and 7 for Denmark.
Thus the FFSC change will come into effect in January 2002. Basically the
proposal allows extended maxes on any flights when the weather is suitable
and all the extra time over three minutes is added together to act as the
first stage to break a tie. It is only considered if the flyer has made the
basic max through all flights. Any people still tied will have a flyoff as
normal. For reference but subject to the freedom to change, it is suggested
to have a 4 min max in round 1 for F1A and 5 min for F1B and F1C.
The intent of the new system is too allow longer maxes to be used when
weather permits, but without immediately cutting out anyone without good
still-air performance because even with a good time in extended rounds the
leading flyer must still fly consistently through the rounds. It is not the
aim to eliminate the flyoffs but rather to limit them to the top 10 to 20%.
If you just miss the flyoff you will not be in an ignominious place like 49th.
To demonstrate the working of the system, a sample hypothetical competition
and results are described on an attached file (to make it clearer by
preserving columns spacing)
Sport classes. FFSC had proposed Sport classes to be flown alongside F1A,
F1B and F1C but with limits on span and control functions. The FFTM did not
support the idea (4 for, 7 against) and Plenary referred the proposal back
to FFSC for reconsideration.
Italy proposals on new specifications. At the FFTM the Chairman reported
that the Italian proposals had not found support in the FFSC, it was noted
that there had been no demonstration of the fundamental new ideas. Italy
then withdrew the proposals without any more detailed consideration.
F1D Indoor Models. To limit the possibilities for going to extreme
configurations with large wing chord, and biplane or tandem configurations
Hungary proposed changing the new specification to allow 0.6g rubber, limit
wing chord to 200 and tail span to 450mm. Supported in FFTM and passed by
Plenary
CO2 models. Italy proposed to increase the minimum weight from 75g to 100g.
Opposed by FFTM, Plenary rejected the proposal.
Austria had proposed deleting the sentence which prohibits artificial
cooling except by pin out (release of CO2 from the tank). Passed by the
Plenary.
[the word format document from Ian will sent under separate cover as an
attachment]
Icarex out from under the bushel
===========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
From: Javier Abad
> I think this will interest more people.Has anyone tried different
colours on top
> and under the wing, would that require a wide overlap?
I have used this type of colour scheme on one Ikarex covered F1A glider -
the only model I've covered with Ikarex so far. I used a black underside on
the centre panels, old gold on the top surface and both sides of my tips are
dayglo orange. This colour scheme works really well - all colours are very
strong against both sky and ground.
Following John Cuthbert's advice I covered the top surface first. I left the
LE overlap about 10mm long and did not stick it down until last. The TE was
left with about a 4 mm overlap which was wrapped round the carbon TE. The
covering was and stuck to both sides of the TE. Then I covered the lower
surface, starting 2-3 mm behind the LE and sticking it at the rear to the
fabric underneath the TE. Excess material was trimmed flush with the rear of
the TE. Lastly the top surface LE overlap was wrapped round and stuck over
the front of the lower surface covering. The idea here was that both seams
would face rearward. The tips were covered with a single piece of Ikarex,
starting and ending underneath the LE, so that seam, too, faces rearward.
The only problem with this covering was that I thinned the contact cement
(Evostick thinned with Evostick thinners) too much and got a little
separation from the ribs on the underside. This is my bad technique, not a
problem with the method.
> Is Icarex more puncture resistant than Micafilm?
Seems so. I flew the model at Poitou and Bilzen last year without getting
any punctures at all.
Note for those unfamiliar with these fields:
Poitou - imagine Lost Hills mostly covered with freshly harvested, sharp
wheat stubble.
Bilzen - largely sugar beet fields interspersed with patches of tall maize.
RDT etc
=======
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger
Just back from CIAM, I will reply to Martin Cowley's questions in SEN 25
March.
1) Yes the 1989 code was the first appearance of radio DT. (My initial
reaction was - it must have been later than that - then checking the papers
that was the code which introduced it. Time flies when you are having fun)
2) There have been no protests or similar problems with RDT in that time at
championships or, so far as I know and remember, at any internationals.
3) Changing the F1C rule was not on the agenda this time so it stays. When
originally introduced it was put under the safety banner (that is, safety
to other people, not safety for the model) and with motor stop it is fair
to accept that it can make some contribution. That alone would support
retaining it.
San Valeers Annual Correction
==============================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Hi Roger, 3/24/00
In the latest issue of the FF digest (March 24, 2000) page 18 it lists a
couple of FAI events that we do not have at our San Valeers annual, or on
our contest flyer. We do not fly F1C since it is at Taft we fly F1J
instead. Also the A-1 Glider is straight tow only and is per the older AMA
rules.( I don't know which letter that is F1-?) We are having F1A,B,J and
coupe in the FAI events and a full complement of AMA and nostalgia events.
Come out and have fun!
Best regards,
Terry Thorkildsen
Icarex is Extremely tough
=========================
Sender : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Javier;
I can't comment on comparison with micafilm, but Icarex is extremely tough. In
addition it has very strong rip stop threads running throughout. It does not
seem to require large overlaps when covering in several pieces, however the
adhesive bond must be stout. I have used Balsarite (Clear, but thick, and
thinning it makes it very weak), Pliobond thinned (strong, but leaves a yellow
discoloration), and even special Japanese hemming tape--very thin, very strong,
but instant bond--not very forgiving. Next job will try Sig stikit or a
combination of above. The usual concerns during covering apply. Be sure and
get out wrinkles as shrinkage will remove sag (quite a bit actually), but not
wrinkles. I use a rotary knife and straightedge on a cutting mat to get one
edge straight and clean. The above contact adhesives bond at about 11 oclock
setting on my iron , with the shrinkage of the covering happening (slowly) in
the 1:30 to 2:30 oclock position. Allow several minutes to shrink, moving iron
around and checking often. Do not overheat as it will permanently damage
covering. (and will stop shrinkage)
In addition to its remarkable strength and respectable weight, Icarex is ready
to fly when covered. Some samples are very slightly porous, but this is most
likely a defect. It is available in transluscent and opaque colors.
Robb Lane
Icarex Questions
===============
Where do you get it ?
How much dos it weigh compared with Micafilm ?
Has anyone tried it on a F1B ?
Re: lung powered sprayer
========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> I would love to have a drawing of your lung powered sprayer.
> I often just use spray cans to avoid the hassle of pulling out the
> air compressor etc. If you would like I will draw it up ic CAD and
> post on SCAT with credit to you of course. ---Ken---
> Ken Kowal
> 14730 Winnipeg Cir.
> Fontana Ca 92336
>
Hi Ken,
as you can see - it already is an AutoCAD-drawing (Version 12/LT to be more
widely useable).
A short explanatory text is also included, again the most simple format
(editor).
Have fun with it.
If anything is not clear, drop me a note.
Klaus
Simple paint sprayer
(see lungsprayer.dwg, AutoCAD13/LT95-format)
by Klaus W. Salzer
Dimensions are not important, any available brass tubing in the
aproximate sizes are OK.
The easiest way to get a proper shape for the inside hole of the large
tubing is to drill the hole for the thin one only from one side, then
put the Tube on a piece of soft wood and use a blunt nail to push the
material outwards. Only afterwards drill and clean the larger hole.
Adjust the position of the thin tube by tests with water:
- If you get too wide a cone, pull back the thin tube.
- If you do net get a proper mist, push a bit forward.
- If little droplets form at the edge of the tube, the hole is too
large, or the litle tube too far back.
The paint to be sprayed must be very thin. Add thinner if not much paint
seems to come out.
I use a standard size glass bottle (ca. 150ccm), and just switch the
sprayer from one to the next.
Always clean carefully by spraying thinner after the paint, and blow
even the thinner out of the thin tube.
Finally: Do not spray too large an area from your lung. It is not just
your health - moisture will collect in the tube, and gets carried towards the
sprayer. Those water droplets will ruin the best spray job!
Use a long transparent tube to minimize and recognize this, and use a
tire or the back end of a vacuum cleaner for large jobs.
Have fun by creating your own tools ...
Van Nest’s on Ice
=================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
Here's our version of the holiday on ice.
Going on it's 13th year, holiday on ice was the most unique competition I
Have ever experience. In other words you haven't flown anywhere until you fly
Here. We flew on 2 feet or more of frozen lake. Lake Mjosa being one of the
Largest lakes of Norway. The airport is one of the easiest we've ever been
At. Small terminal and very user friendly. Car rental was very accommodating.
Maybe it's us but it wasn't as complicated as other places. The drive to the
Hostel is located in Gjovich about 1 1/2 hours from airport. Easy driving on
An uncrowded highway. Within 20 min. You see the lake. Although the lake is
Not frozen it does seem to make you wonder when will it be frozen. Well it
Won't be frozen even when you reach the small town of Gjovich. Population of
19,000 home of the Mustad fish hook factory. The hostel is easy to find. A
Small ski lift, indoor tennis courts and park with pool (frozen this time of
Year) is nearby. I'm sure in the summer this is very much a tourist dream for
Families especially with the lake nearby. Rooms are small 2 sets of bunk beds
Per room. There are also 1 and 2 bedroom cabins available. The hostel has
Great accommodation for visiting lobby, sitting rooms and dining hall.
Therefore there's alot of noise. Visiting and shop talk until the wee hours
Of the nite. Everyone literally around the world gather to visit old friends
And make new. Friday was a practice day for us and after 10k is the practice
Field. The lake is frozen about 5k from hostel. Don't forget your spikes are
You will be falling alot.the weather Friday was 33 f with no wind but it was
Overcast. After parking and gear in hand we ventured out to the lake. Some
Fliers have sleds which is great for model boxes and gear. If there is 3
Things I would recommend to bring is a thermos, chair, and rent or buy a
Sled. Not necessary but convenient. I am in to comfort.
Today's the day-it's show time. The snow is glistening like diamonds 32 f
Wind is 1.5 mph and the ski is blue definitely a sun screen day but not as
Cold as yesterday. We flew from pole 12 along with fib fliers, Rich Rourke,
Walt Ghio and Jerry Fitch. David Olefield gbr and Chris Murphy from New
Zealand. Once you were given a pole you stayed there for all of contest.
They put power on the end of line unfortunately we're toward that end. Not
Complaining just a little noisy.
1st round- 32f wind 1.5 some thermals activity up and down air some
Fliers struggled with this round/ pretty tricky.
2nd round-38f wind 4.5. Feels a lot colder with the wind. Brian ok with
Great launch and then dropped lower-strange layer but able to make max.
3rd round-wind is definitely picking up 8.5 mph-trackers are being put
Together. Need binoculars not for distance but more difficult to see against
Green forest. Even rich is cold. No shorts or sandals for him this trip. The
Wind is more pronounced, a lot of glider fliers just straight towed.
4th round- has been extended to 1 1/2 hour rounds because of longer chase
Time needed due to winds. Wind 7-8 mph temp 38-40f
5th round- now is 43f wind is 7-8 mph. Weather at 2:30 is sunny and
Bright, doesn't appear to be as cold and wind has died down by the end of the
Round
Flyoff at 16:00 lite breeze 7 min max -only 10 fliers in fly off. First place
was Kimmo from Finland flew immediately at beginning of round. He was at the
Other end of flight line from us. Said he felt thermal immediately and
Launched.
Fib had 21 in fly off. They flew after f1a .
We all return back to hostel for banquet and prize giving. The trophies were
Really unique. Hand carved bears. You can't drink out of those but I wouldn't
mind dusting one of those treasures.
Janna and Brian
Stamov Supplies
===============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger,
I wanted everyone to know I am new dealer for Stamov F1A & F1H supplies. I
Have in stock most parts including tow hooks, timers, winder keys, pointers,
1, 2, 3, position wing wigglers, bunt mechanism, stab mount, tail booms f1a &
F1h, servo holder with pulley, wing joiner 4.5, 5.5 & 5.8 mm, caps for wings
And stabs, tail planes, towline winch and mylar. Wings in stock later this
Summer.
BRIAN VAN NEST
2346 CHEYENNE DRIVE
BISHOP, CA. 93514
E-MAIL This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
FAX 760-873-6053
FOR SALE: F1A BUNTER, VICTOR STAMOV ENTRY LEVEL
=======================================================
This glider was purchased brand new from Victor Stamov
at a contest at Lost Hills, California. Victor personally helped me make
4 test flights and helped with some minor trim adjustments on the day I
bought it. The glider is in perfect condition and has been stored
safely
in a box ever since. The model Flies very well. I am selling this
glider
as new for the original purchase price of $600 plus shipping if
necessary. ( US ). It is in exactly the same condition as when purchased
and includes the timer winding wrench and the bunt delay-set pointer.
There are no holes, tears, or broken parts. Please do not hesitate to
call Matthew Kruse at 714-279-9384 or email me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. if
you are interested in purchasing this model.
Thank you
Matthew
..................
Roger Morrell
