SEN-482 October 4 2000
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News and Reports 2000 - second half
SCAT Electronic News 4 October 2000 Issue 482
Table of Contents
Free Flight Web site - Barron and Lipori
Today's SEN - Bogie and others
Sloan's Eatery will miss the finals - Slobatte
Bugatti etc - Wagner
Australian Free Flight Team Selection Trials report - Fletcher
Team Selection - Luddite #13
Re: FAI HLG - Hines et al
Peter King's simulations - Augustus
bad example - Achterberg
F1H Rules ! - Cowley
A-1 Vs. F1H - Terzian
Religion and Politics? - Bennett
Free Flight Web site
Regarding your Website announcement. A key address is for Roger Morrell
newsletter (I would not be surprised if there are thousands reading it
daily). It is for Free Flight, somewhat generally, but with a particular
FAI orientation. Some of his readership might be interested in your chat
Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Bob wrote:
> Free Flighters,
> I created a Free Flight Website a while ago, but never really publicized it u
ntil now. There is a chat room on the site, and that's the reason for this lett
er. The server that is providing the room free of charge, wants to see a little
more action, or they will have to start charging for the space. It is one of t
he best chat rooms I've seen, sort of like an instant messenger, where one or m
ore can trade messages in real time. Others who may not be in the room at the t
ime will see the messages at some later time and can then respond to them. The
website itself has some useful links. A direct link to the AMA and SAM contest
calendar. Weather reports at various Free Flight sites, including East Coast's
Barron field. A contest calendar for meets at Barron field (wawayanda,) with a
map and Motel information, is included.
> click--> http://home.earthlink.net/~rlipori/sky2.html
> Bob Lipori
Problem with unzipping P King Excel file. Unzipped version has no size.
Screen says there are problems with the file. I have received a number of
his zip files with no trouble.
[Bill and others, there appears to a problem with how I sent
it. Too busy because of Team Finals .. whoops Lottery ..
so will investigate later. On the Lottery I quote Arnold Palmer -
the more I practise, the luckier I get..]
Sloan's Eatery will miss the finals
George got a call last night from Mrs. Sloan. She had been in a car
accident, hospitalized for some time & they won't be able to bring their
traveling cafe to Lost Hills for the finals.
Roger, A response to Kenny Dilger in reference to the Bugatti racer, I saw
pictures and also the original racer hanging in a restoration shop in the
Nerwberg, NY area. Can't remeber the exact location but the guy who had it
is a fantastic restorer of classic cars and is well known in that field and
has over the past 5-10 years added aircraft. I am sure he could put Kenny on
to some one who has drawings or some reference. I believe he also had
something to do with flying a WW II aircraft out of the Ice in the Artic not
too long ago. I will try to ply my memory but it is running blank towards F1C
right now. regards Joe Wagner
Australian Free Flight Team Selection Trials report
30th Sept to 2nd Oct. 2000
Friday 29th - A half dozen or so keen flyers turned up early on the
Thursday night to suss out the new field and get in some practice. The
weather outlook was not good with a front predicted to arrive Saturday.
The field was a newly negotiated one of some 2,200 acres of grazing
paddock situated in about 25 sq kilometres of grazing land with no
trees on the Colombo plains 50 kms south of Narrendera. The land was
very flat and but was covered in small areas of standing water needing
careful driving to avoid bogging vehicles. Having got the practice
group started I left to put up sign posts all the way back to town. On
arrival back at the field there was light rain and freshening wind so
after just a couple of flights it was time to call it quits.
Saturday 30th This year I started the contest mid day Saturday giving
later arrivals the chance to check fly early Saturday before committing
to contest flights. This sorted out a few early contest nerves and
miss-launched flights. At the start a farm worker asked us to move away
from the farm buildings, which we duly did, and the launch area
remained the same in the middle of the field over the whole weekend
even though the wind swung by over 180 degrees. By midday the wind was
fairly strong leading to very long downwind retrieves. I offered a
prize for the flyer who hit the first tree and got no takers all
weekend…… Even thought the grass cover wasn’t all that long there were
great difficulties experienced finding models. This despite the fact
just about everyone had trackers fitted. Maybe due to the high upper
level wind strength and maybe due to the great clarity of the air
models were travelling three or four times as far as Flyers had judged
leading to many missed rounds. Included in this group were Phil
Mitchell, Jon Fletcher and Bill East.
Sunday 1st Oct Back to an early start saw the line laid out at
daybreak but the wind quite strong from the start. Whilst I was away
retrieving my second flight, the wind got up over 9 metres/second and
the Members of the Subcommittee present put a hold on after the second
F1B & C round and then after the third F1A round. I called a stop for
one hour then measured the wind speed again. I repeated this for a
second hour then cancelled the remaining rounds for that day. The wind
was up at 9 metres/second gusting to 12. All tripped wearily back to
the Town for an impromptu AFFS meeting (with the Team selection system
on the agenda!) a few beers and some rest.
Monday 2nd Oct. The wind was mercifully less and had swung to come
from the south. The better conditions showed in the scores with over
half maxing out over these last three rounds. However the wind got the
better of the South Australians who had left to start the homeward
journey. A couple of people got bogged in some of the soft patches and
many thanks are due to Peter Summersby who fitted in towing activities
while topping the F1A results. Also many thanks go to Alana Mitchell
who single handedly ran the comp. for me allowing me to compete in F1C.
Alana was aided by brother Brett and Noelene.
The results from Alana’s spreadsheet (with a bit of fiddling from me)
Chairman, MAAA Free Flight Subcommittee
Australian Free Flight Society
A Special Interest Group of the Model Aircraft Association of Australia
Convenor:- Jon Fletcher
4 Candowie Crescent
NAME / CLASS Rd 1 Rd 2 Rd 3 Rd 4 Day 1 Day 1Rd 5 Rd 6 Rd 7 Day 1Day 2 Rd 12 Rd 13Rd 14FINAL TOFinal
Peter Summersby 101 180 180 95 556 3 119 180 167 1022 2 210 180 170 1582 1
Vera Lacy 114 180 180 125 599 1 172 142 166 1079 1 202 167 100 1548 2
Phil Mitchell 180 180 0 103 463 5 112 175 180 930 4 210 180 180 1500 3
Vin Morgan 143 73 180 127 523 4 206 124 130 983 3 210 175 96 1464 4
Tahn Stowe 79 164 73 79 395 6 210 155 154 914 5 210 154 180 1458 5
Mike Thomas 180 180 129 82 571 2 210 0 71 852 6 0 0 0 852 6
Terry Bond 44 0 0 0 44 7 0 0 0 44 7 0 0 0 44 7
Martin Williams 37 0 0 0 37 8 0 0 0 37 8 0 0 0 37 8
Terry Bond 180 180 180 171 711 2 210 180 1101 1 210 180 180 1671 1
Richard Blackam 180 180 180 180 720 1 195 180 1095 2 210 180 180 1665 2
Don Blackam 180 180 180 110 650 4 166 0 816 4 210 180 180 1386 3
Leigh Morgan 180 116 161 180 637 5 146 0 783 6 210 180 180 1353 4
Bill Pudney 180 180 180 120 660 3 160 0 820 5 0 0 0 820 5
Dave Lacy 180 105 0 0 285 6 178 0 463 3 205 0 0 668 6
Bill Gordon 180 0 0 0 180 7 119 0 299 7 177 3 131 610 7
Roy Summersby 180 176 136 150 642 1 240 155 1037 2 240 180 180 1637 1
Dave Thomas 175 180 89 164 608 2 240 130 978 3 240 180 180 1578 2
Jon Fletcher 75 180 0 0 255 3 216 175 646 4 240 180 180 1246 3
Bill East 180 0 0 0 180 4 240 180 600 1 0 0 0 600 4
From Luddite No. 13 - Bob White
I notice that Schordter and others are trying to upset our team selection
Program. I am not in the Program, so I guess that qualifies me to have a say
- It ain't broke so don't fix it.
His idea has been around for about 25 years, and there are many problems
with it. Good on
ya, Michael Woodhouse. Don't tinker with the program unless you know what
you are doing.
Sent by Luddite interpreter, Bill Bogart
Re: FAI HLG
It is not insane to consider inclusion of IHLG with the Indoor WC.
As I understand things, IHLG was merely CLASSIFIED and it is
up to promoters of the class, as is usual and normal, to schedule
and organise events.
So the impact of holding in conjunction with any event is clearly
monetary---hall rental, transport and accomodation for the
participants and officials, etc.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe no comps have been held
for the IHLG Class as of this date. If that is true, what promoter
would commit funds to run a comp for an unflown class event?
I suggest you lobby the NFFS to run the event on a trial basis
at next years' Indoor Champs. Someone(YOU?) would then
have to promote the HELL out of it, to get the word to the hinter-
lands, or you and Len will be flying by yourselves!
If it is run in parallel with the regular IHLG event costs and organi-
sation needs would be minimized of course.
Query: Do you have the rules of FAI IHLG? I do not recall seeing
them, but the FAI CIAM website should lead to them.
I suspect Ian Keynes would say that FAI IHLG is "work in progress"
class, waiting for the clay of activity to be molded around it!?!
Ciao from Ol' Dead Arm,
----- Original Message -----
From: Buxton, Jim
To: Lee Hines
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 6:57 AM
Subject: FAI HLG
> Hi Lee,
> I have a question for you. Since HLG, indoor in particular, is now a
> recognized FAI event, how insane is it to ponder it being included in the
> indoor WC program? I mean, it's not like it would be a HUGE schedule
> or anything. I've been corresponding with Kevin Brown over in England (he
> publishes Heave Ho, the British HLG periodical), and he asked me to write
> something up and send him to get people thinking about it.
> I'm not sure who to propose this to, or how the event would be run, or how
> team (which would probably not consist of 3 people) would be scored. I
> I'm just wondering what kind of possibilities you foresee for this, and
> your opinions are. I also sent off a request to Richard Doig, as he is the
> FAI indoor guy in this area, and is pretty knowledgeable and opinionated.
> Any ideas or opinions will be appreciated.
Peter King's simulations
Once again, Peter King has upgraded his FAI computer simulations. We
thank him so much for spending all the time he does preparing the
flight simulations; easily the most sophisticated analyses of model
flight I have seen.
Peter keeps improving the program with the addition of more
parameters, making the data more accurate and useable for us. We are
In reference to the team selection program and Jerry Fitch, the statement is
somewhat incorrect. Not only did Jerry win the W.C. but I believe he won the
America Cup the year before that, not to mention the Max-Men, Sierra Cup,
which are international contests.
Jerry Fitch was a very deserving W.C. He built and flew constantly and we
studied every batch of rubber that came out. He dragged me out of bed at
5:00 AM in the morning to go test fly more times than I can count. We flew
in the wind, in the cold and in calm hot conditions so he could be prepared
for the team finals and more in prep for the W.C.
He was not the weekend wonder!! He was extremely dedicated and would have
been on the Soviet team without a doubt!!
The only sad thing would have been, if after so much work, he had not made
the team. This happens to many flyers that work extremely harder than the
rest of us, win all the contests, and then don't have the little luck and do
not make the team. This turns these people off!! They know they should be on
the team, and they know they worked harder than anyone and because of some
quirk of fate they are out. And their bonus is they can wait 2 more years to
Now, if the program was set up so these rare few who actually put forth this
kind of effort had the next event to look forward to, the let down is not so
bad. Such as another big, highly attended , highly competitive contest to
look forward to prove to themselves and to the rest of us that hard work and
effort is rewarded, the downside is not so demoralizing. Unfortunately, we
only have the Max-Men in Feb. and nothing of that class again for 8 more
months. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a Max-Men size event a number of times
In closing, Jerry made himself a world class flyer through hard work,
dedication and 1000's of hours of practicing and studying rubber. And he had
a little luck and all his hard work was rewarded with a very convincing win
at the W.C.
Jerry won "inspite" of the program and not because of the program!!!
Good luck to everyone at this weeks lotto!!!
[Mike - I did not mean in any way to be little Jerry's effort
which I regard as a classic example of World Class achievement
through hard work and dedication.
I also applogise for using something involving a friend of
your to illustrate a an argument that is counter to your position.
I stand corrected and will not do it again.]
F1H Rules !
F1H Rules (Sounds like a Soccer chant !)
Terry * you have to go to the source (14 times consecutive A/1 winner
at the US Free Flight Championships !). The FAI rule book as printed has
been in error these past two cycles * but in the immortal words of
Sandy Pimenoff, ..."it is the minutes of the CIAM meeting which decides
the actual rules, not the guy who prints the rule book !" I therefore
always carry with me signed corrections by Sandy and Ian Kaynes, to
clarify when necessary the errors printed in the F1H rules. My current
understanding is as follows:
* Weight is currently 220 gms (not 212 gms as printed last time)
* Fly-off maxes go in 1 minute increments starting from 3 minutes, the
same as F1G & F1J (not in 30 second increments as printed).
* Also worthy of note, the fly-off period for all the FAI Mini classes
(F1G, F1H and F1J) is correct as printed and remains at 15 minutes (only
the larger A, B & C classes were reduced to 10 minute rounds).
A-1 Vs. F1H
Being an NFFS member I'm surprised that you haven't got a copy of the
Special Events Rulebook (it's available from Bob McLinden, current NFFS
Publications person for about $3.00 postpaid).
3903 W. Temple Place
Denver, CO 80236-3529
The A-1 Straight Tow rule states:
Max projected wing area 278 sq. in.
Weight 5 oz. (142 grams)
Towline Non-elastic 50m (164 ft line)
Then there is more on straight tow characteristics plus an official flight
being 40 seconds or more.
This is probably pretty much in line with the original AMA rules that I can
recall. I have an old copy of the AMA rulebook somewhere and if necessary,
I'll try and confirm that info for you
Religion and Politics?
In a SEN posting dated 9/30/00, TThorkildsen writes,
<< With all this discussion on team selection programs & such maybe we should
move on to religion and politics when it is finished.
Mr. Thorkildsen, I enjoy even the tangential discussions of SEN
readers/writers. Much of the charm of Zaic Yearbooks is in the philosophy,
musings, and trivial chatter of the authors. Granted, SEN could use some
more technical/building topics, but it's hard to diagram things with the
average PC. And even the NFFS Sympo editors apparently have to work hard to
get an appropriate balance of material.
Few things are more thought provoking than a good literary controversy.
That includes religion and politics, if well written, or supported with
evidence. Besides, modeling apparently IS religion and politics for some.
Bring it on, folks.