SCAT Electronic News June 1, 1998
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SCAT Electronic News June 1, 1998
Good News from the Lawyers
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Two positive items of interest:
1. Change of incorporation papers have been filed with the State of Michigan
to make NFFS a 501(c)(3) (charitable organization). I anticipate this to
become effective around September. Then we can proceed with property
acquisition at Lost Hills and charitable giving to NFFS.
2. AMA is currently attempting to form a Foundation as a separate, but
simbiotic entity to AMA. The whole purpose here is to raise a lot of money
that can be used for many purposes - two of many purposes are education (an
aeromodelling school at AMA, for example) and giving AMA a larger wallet to
help secure more flying sites.
Lee Kell, a Portland Oregon attorney did the NFFS reorg. on a no-fee basis for
us. He also has volunteered to help AMA with their Foundation and sit on the
committee, also of a no-fee basis. This guy charges big league fees for
clients and heads one of the largest law firms here. We are fortunate to have
a "friend of free flight and model aviation" like Lee.
Waterman
Electronic timers
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From George X
Matt,
There has been much misunderstanding of the proposed proposal, especially
after a number of misdirected tirades against it. In F1A for example, nothing
would be precluded before the model was released. You could do anything you
wanted while still on the line. Things that would not be allowed, for
example, would be:
1. Use of accelerometers, gyros and air speed sensors coupled with
computational chips and sero controlled surfaces to fly a "perfect bunt path."
2. Use of thermistors in wing tips controlling the rudder for the model to
turn towards the thermal.
3. Variometers that would control the rudder to make the model fly a straight
flight path when not in up-air and circle in lift.
Those that say you would need a PC computational capability
to do these things have not been paying attention to what has been happening
in electronics. Chip size accelerometers and gyros are being fabricated and
computational chips are found in an ever increasing number of consumer
products.
Basically, free flighters have to decide what kind of field they want to
compete on. This is true in any competitive area. If the title "Free Flight"
means flight that is free of intelligent real-time control, then these things
should be precluded. If, on the other hand, the consensus is for preflight
cramming of as much of our intelligence into the model as we can to have it in
real-time, i.e., during the official flight, sense and control the flight path
as we would if we were on-board or controlling from the ground, then maybe we
should rename the event.
[Comment on the availability of sensor etc ..
No one disputes the availability of such devices. They are indeed
becoming quite common. In addition the micro controller
are being used in many consumer devices, it is said the average
US Household has 30 to 40 of such devices.
However these devices are significantly less powerful that the
average home PC . For example the MicroChip PIC16F84 that I use in
my BlackMagic F1A timer has space for 1000 instruction, 64 bytes of RAM
and 64 bytes of non volatile storage memory. Note that the
RAM and storage memory is just 64 bytes, not 64K or
64 megabytes that one would associate with a personal computer.
There certainly are other processors and storage options
that have more instruction space, memory and power
that can be used for our purposes. But none yet in the order
of magnitude of a PC. I think from memory that a single board computer
that is 'pc' compatible would be about 3 inches square.
I estimate that in an F1B you have probably 30 grams of payload -
Currently my simple timer that has no sensors and
in works like a clock work timer is made up of the following
computer - 3.5 grams
batteries 6 grams
servo 9 grams
wiring 2 grams for a total of 20 grams.
Now to perform more inteligent controls I need to add another servo,
possibly bigger batteries, the sensor's itsef and
a slight larger computer board. The mechanical linkage would
more complex and heavier than what I have as it would need to
drive the surfaces, rather than just operate trip levers.
This would give me something like George achieved with his TART
mechanical control system. I do not see how I will
be able to get it under my 30 gram limit.
Both F1A and F1C have the ability to carry more payload - probably
at least 100 grams. However the forces on the control surface of these classes
is much higher than on a F1B. So the battery weight and servo size will
need to be increased to compensate. For F1C in particular the electronic will
need to be mounted in a more rugged fachion because of more difficult
environmental conditions.
I just got a Tower Hobbies catalog and they were promoting a gyro for
R/C applications. They said it only weighed 1 3/4 oz !
I feel that there is a very significat challenge to build an auto pilot system
that weights 100 - 150 grams let alone 30 to 40. So I think
that banning most electronic applications just because some may be able
to develope an auto pilot is to draconian.]
Question from Bill Shailor
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So if artificial intelligence is that far off, why not recognize it for what
it is and ban it as a means of controlling free flight after once the model
leaves your hands? Bill Shailor
[Answer Bill the only problem is that the definition of Artifical
Intelligence is probably more contraversial than what we are trying to do !
So years back I was in a Computer "Think Tank" for a large computer
company and we investigated all kinds
of new technologies. AI was one of these. We had to a report to senior
management and looked for way to explain simply what it is. The phrase
we came up with was "It is stuff that did not quite work yet ! "
This is because when computer first because available they were used
for scientific computations and simple accounting functions. At that
time it appear if great artifical intelligence was need to do these things,
as we became more familar with the technology, these applications became
'normal' and the AI label was given to other classes of application
and so in with time.
A possible definition is one where the program adapts itself to
depending of the level of sucess of previous
actions . The main problem with this would
be the ability of an organizer
to determine that it was working in this way. It would be virtually
impossible to do so by exteranal examination
and very hard even for the computer expert to do it by looking
at the program. Obvious this could not be a commerical device
because one could not advertize it as 'AI' , if that was forbidden.
My feeling is that excluding AI is not as restrictive as what George X
proposes above.
From Gil Morris
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I favour a policy allowing any and all on-board electronics but one
forbidding any ground-to-air RC. From an administrative standpoint this is
clean and simple and allows us to make some needed advancements such as:
1. Vibration sensor or microphone pick-up transmission air-to-ground
that the engine has stopped. Confirmation that the system is working and
not disconnected by a timer function could be continued sound or vibration
of lesser degree from such source as Seelig timer, hopefully still
running.
2. Proximity sensor to signal that the model is down thereby
eliminating actual sighting by the flight timer.
Yes, there are possible far-out implications of air-to-air electronic
warfare and thermal sensors some may take advantage of, but I really
don't see electronic geniuses getting hepped-up about free flight.
Mostly, still, it will be the attraction of aeronautics with electronics
subservient. Gil Morris
[Gil Morris is a former US Team F1C member. He renouned for some innovative
and lateral thinking. He is the designer of the
Matchsticks and other AMA GAS models. His F1C models are flappers
and as an example of his differnt approach - his model boxes stand on the
end when they are open , rather like a closet or wardrobe, instead of
laying on the groung like the rest of us. ]
Anonymous Comments
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Material sent for inclusion must be signed by your real name as well
as your e-mail name. So normally we would not have have included
the following .. It appears to be from a F1C flyer, which probably
explains much :-).
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject : comments
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BOB..WHATARYAGONNADOOO.... NO MCDONALS??????? CHARLY .S FAR OUT!!!!!!!!!
Correspondence
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From Sky King
Subject : A radical proposal
Mr.. Morrell:
Thanks to Mr.. Stiles' "shouting" my attention was riveted upon the
downside of all this fascinating quibbling over technologies. Charlie
zeroed in on the negative effect of such emphasis as bumming-out
potential new and recycled free fliers.
Suddenly I was brought up short when It struck home that all this verbal
noise about banning Gearing, or Electronics, or Folders, or Composite
"D" boxes is mere clever misdirection.
The epiphany came as a flash: the real issue is more basic than
technological Chicken Littleism. The real danger is in the insidious
substituting of virtual computer flying for real model building and
flying. To wit: Since I discovered this SCAT web site--along with its
included Thayer Syme's Archives-- my only "modeling" efforts have been
limited to, and are found only as, dark little electronic wrinkles upon
my "C" drive.
The solution is obvious to the tough-minded! For the continuing good
health of the free flight community, WE MUST BOYCOTT THIS SCAT SITE,
NOW! Just do it, everybody! Suck it up. Go cold turkey.
P.S. Charlie Styles is not to be exalted as a virgin newcomer. The kid
is tainted. Charlie is second generation Maf....FAI. Through no fault
of his own his mental set was corrupted years ago by his father, Major
Dick Stiles, who flew in the first-ever central gathering of the FAI
clan meeting at Bong in '66.
double P.S.. The fact that I am so far gone in web addiction as to be
psychologically compelled to write such garbage as the above is
overwhelming prima fascia evidence to underscore the truth of my
accusations against the nefarious SCAT web page as engineered by
Professor Moriarity Morrell.
....going for the 12 step remission program, I am hopefully, Skycured,
signing off.
[Sky Person .. to any modeller east of Riverside - anything from SCAT
has to by definition be nefarious. ..
But come to think of I've been spending too much time
on this and not enough working on my new 'electronic' F1B ]
Comments from Ken
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It has been interesting reading all the comments on the state of free
flight. I have been restraining myself from making any further comments,
but this is so much fun I can't hold back...
I thought the words from Charlie Stiles were great - "Let the sport grow in
what ever way it can so we can still go to contest and fly and have fun
because any way you slice it there wont be much around in twenty years anyway."
I have always felt that we worry way too much about preserving things the
way they are instead of just enjoying the sport today and letting it
progress, even if certain events may decline. Change is inevitable. It has
been said, "the only constant in life is change." The fascination and
intrigue for many of us in the FAI events is the constant challenge of
improvement and progress and the quest for the ultimate in performance.
The great thing about free flight is that it will never die, although
organized events will change. As long as there is someone throwing a glider
in the air or letting loose a small rubber model, free flight is alive. I
personally get great satisfaction from jogging down to the local park and
throwing one of my old hand launch gliders in the air, even though I haven't
flown one in a contest for about 20 years. I still have a small indoor
rubber model that I fly in my living room and for local boy scout groups for
demonstrating models. I think these kind of models represent the most pure
form of free flight and will always be around in some form.
I have on two occasions, one just a couple months ago, helped our local
group of about 20 cub scout boys build and fly the "AMA Cub" rubber models.
The events were a great success, although none of them have continued in
modeling and I didn't expect any to. It was worth it just to see the
excitement on the faces of the boys as they saw something they built fly
pretty high. Hopefully they learned something that day that will stick with
them, even if they never build another model. But for that day at least,
free flight was very much alive!
Last comment - Another great thing about free flight is that we have lots
and lots of events. Something for everyone. There are plenty of old timer,
nostalgia, and simple events for those who like them. There are a few high
tech events for those that like that. Let's be sure we are not too quick to
mess around with the rules all the time. Let's do lots of flying and be
very slow to change the rules.
Ken Bauer
Ken BauerAirtek Engineering
RF Circuit & System Design
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Finally
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This issue is being sent from our new server
aeromodel.com. .. so if you do not receive it :-)
or have some other problems let us know. The new e-mail address
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..................
Roger Morrell
