SEN 2467

Table of Contnets – SEN 2467

  1. Not the best way to end the competition, but accepted
  2. F1ABC E/C blog at Thermiksense has started
  3. Sunday morning flights to the ground

Not the best way to end the competition, but accepted

From: Walt Ghio

The information posted on the SCAT web site regarding fly offs has been interesting reading the last few months. I have flown in three DT fly offs and have no issue flying in them. From my point of view, I want a finish to any contest that I fly in. The definition of a “contest” is: A contest is a competition or game that people try to win. The meaning is that groups of people have a competition and that one of the “people” is the winner.

Several article’s posted have stated that the writer would prefer sending the competitors home with the same amount of World Cup points due to conditions at the end of the day. There are several conditions that would bring this idea into play. High winds, rain or sunset being several of the conditions. Most contest have the high wind conditions at the end of the day that forces the contest director and contestants to make a decision on what type of fly off to be held. High winds take our models a long way in a fly off and most flying fields cannot hold the model’s, which then makes retrieving the model’s an issue. The DT fly off system was first used last year to my knowledge at a World Cup contest to supplement a long flight in a fly off.

At a very windy Norwegian Cup last year the contest director stated that we would have a DT fly off. I was expecting a normal fly off and then after talking to several flyers I agreed for this type of fly off. My one-minute DT flying went 1.2 km according to my Icare GPS system. A long flight for a one-minute DT, but with a normal fly off the model would have been much farther down wind.

This year at the Danish Cup, which was windy the contest director stated that we would be using a DT fly off with a three-minute DT. Several of us wanted a shorter DT and after talking it over we agreed on the three minutes. I climbed to 112 meters and at the three minute DT time the model was at 76 meters. My model landed 2.2 km from the launch point according to my Icare GPS system. You who are reading this can figure out how far the model would have been if we had a normal fly off according to the present rules. Would I agree for a normal F1B fly off for these conditions? No. It would be a competition of which timer had the best eyes/ binoculars. Would I agree to have all of us go home with the same amount of World Cup points? No. Only a few flyers have a chance to win the World Cup. Most of us are down the list and fly in contest for the enjoyment of the competition and being with our fellow competitors.

All the DT fly offs that I have flown in or helped with timing have had two timers per competitor. One times the DT and the second timer times the flight. At the Swedish Cup this year the F1A competitor that I timed used four timers. There were two timers for the DT timing and two timers for the total flight. The three Scandinavian contests are organized and run by three very qualified contest directors. The running of the contest and fly off conditions are to a very high standard and that is one of the reasons why I attend these contest.

Adding weight to the models for a fly off is not in the rules for our models. Also, this is not something that you would do with out some trimming flights. From my point of view, this is not a good idea. You can play with the stabilizer angle, but I believe it is not worth the time and you may end up damaging your model. Reducing line length, rubber, motor runs, using altimeter data are not in the rules and I believe that the majority of competitors would object to these types of “Mickey Mouse” rules. Monday morning fly offs are a good idea except that Mother Nature some times keeps the windy conditions for early mornings and also some competitors have a job that takes them back home along with some competitors who have airplane reservations that would cost extra to change them.

The World Cup just ended this past weekend. Not our World Cup, but the soccer event that had the World watching. In soccer you play 90 minutes. If tied, you play another period. If then tired you go to a five-player penalty shootout. I am not a big soccer fan, but what I read and have talked to soccer fans most of them do not like a penalty shootout. A penalty shootout for soccer is no different than a DT fly off for our Free Flight models. Do they put a bigger or small ball in play? Do they change the size of the net? Do they reduce the number of players? No, they keep the same rules and just end the competition with the penalty shootout. Not the best way to end the competition, but accepted by the competing teams. Again, the definition of a contest; some person or team be the winner and not go home with a tie for the contest or event.

Bottom line for these decisions is to have fair results in bad conditions that affect the end of the day competitions for our events. We need to keep the models on the flying field and complete the results before sunset. DT fly off accomplishes these conditions and gives a fair result for our contest.

Walt Ghio: Active 76 year old F1B / C competitor, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


F1ABC E/C blog at Thermiksense has started

From: Bernhard Schwendemann  

On Monday the European Championship F1ABC for seniors will start on next
Monday in Hungary.
The blog on the web-site of our freeflight magazin Thermiksense is already

The German Free-Flight Magazine

Best regards



Sunday morning flights to the ground

From: aram Schlosberg 


Let’s start with an actual case. At Wawaywanda NY a few years ago we flew a 6 minute first flight on a Sunday morning. In B, the first group had timers and the those who flew jumped onto golf carts to retrieve their models. I had to wait until one of the non-flying timers became available. This took close to 10 minutes and by the that time the drift shifted by 20 degrees and the air became really bad. I ended up dropping the max and my model landed at the fringe of an inaccessible incredibly densely spaced bamboo field. Retrieving could only be done with a machete if at all. In retrospect, I was really lucky!

The point of this anecdote is that early morning super max flights should only be performed in a flyoff format - so that everyone flies in the SAME 7-minute window and each has a timer.

However, this is a steep requirement, as the number of timers has to match the number of flyers. (One timer per flyer.) Furthermore, the question is where to fly from, as early morning weather conditions can be fuzzy. The field can also be covered with a blanket of fog - creating visibility issues.

(A variant, of pairs timing each other, means that the early and late flight windows are separated by 10-15 minutes - can be problematic.)

Fast forward to the end of a Sunday contest. By this point at least half the flyers have dropped and more timers are available. The dreaded DT-flyoff is now an option, but with the yet-to-be fully resolved issue of flyers who lower their stab’s DT angle to spin or tumble into a higher position.

A possible fix is to require writing the stab’s DT angle of the stab and to only allow flying models that have already been flown during the contest. Other suggestions are welcome. ///