SEN 2180
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Table of Contents SEN 2180
Schedule of Events:
Sunday, October 2 Mini Events F1G, F1H, F1J/P Combined, F1S
5-90 minute rounds starting at 9 AM and sharing a 2nd contest with Kotuku Cup Minis.
(2 Mini contests on the same day-2 flights per round) Rounds may be lengthened if
required. Sierra Cup flies second flight each round. Flyoffs following round 5 . BBQ
follows flying on Sunday on the field-free with entry.
Monday, October 3 F1A, F1B, F1C and F1Q
7 one hour rounds starting at 8AM. Flyoffs start will be posted after Round 7.
Tuesday, October 4 Reserve Day
Potential morning flyoffs for previous days events starting at 7 AM with 10 minute or
more max as well as reserve day due to previous bad weather. NEW F1E on hill details
to be announced.
The contest will be run to current FAI rules and maxes in seven round format. No motoflapping.
FAI Stamp should be shown at registration if flying for World Cup points.
Send Entries Fees to and Request Further Information From: Address may be potentially
updated for planned move by CD.
Mike McKeever - CD
4252 Mockingbird St
Fair Oaks, Ca 95628
(916) 967-8475
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Entry Fees:
Any single event (Mini or Maxi) $45
A “Mini” event and one “Maxi” event $60
Entry includes Fund Raiser - extra Fund Raiser $20 each
F1E $20
Entries to be received with check payable to SCAT before Sunday September 25. If you
request to be on a pole with someone, I would suggest entry by mail before September
25. Non-US competitors may advise of entry before September 25 and pay at the field.
Entry:
Name:____________________________E-Mail____________________ AMA #___________________
Address:__________________________________State_____Zip_________Country_______________
Event: Circle Those You Will Fly F1A F1B F1C F1Q F1P/J F1G F1H F1S F1E
Entry Fee and Extra Fund Raiser Tickets Enclosed $____________
Dino to a T
From: Michael Achterberg
Hello.
There you go Jack.. F1t1... Electric F1c.. Now, you have an F1c replacement that will create a lot of interest in the power camp.. Models wont be complicated by fuel, vibrations and everyone will have same power source.
Clean and quiet and fly like a power model from the 90's.. Sounds like the model we watched at the maxmen a few years ago..
There is a lot of interest in the venue, but getting something passed and then not changed is the problem.
Here is an idea.... Ask the power flyers for there input. Leave the glider and rubber guys
out of the discussion.. We don't need another F1p event that replaced a perfect F1j event.. The designers of F1p event, with all good intentions, came up with a model that the juniors didn't like, was way harder to fly and killed interest. They complained about excessive performance as a reason. Lets see. Humm.. Anyone come up with the novel idea of cutting engine run down from 7 sec to 5sec. Wow, what a concept..
If you want a popular event such as your describing then ask the power people. Those still flying and those who just quit cause of last rule changes..
Michael
From Dino land....
Stop the wing moving ...
From: Martin Dilly
Here’s something to raise a few hackles. In the World Championships classes we have some problems. Let me first echo CHE’s thoughts regarding the earlier person who “.. doesn’t care what the rest of the world is doing."; … Like it or not, the clue is in that word ‘World’, - not US, not Californian, but /World/, so that’s how we need to look at it, blinkers off.
Let me touch on a few of the main problems we have in free flight (I believe ‘challenges’ or ‘opportunities’ are more popular words in spin doctor circles, but I’ll stick with ‘problems’, thanks).
1) There are far fewer flying sites available now for free flight. In many countries military airfields have closed or been returned to agriculture or used for housing. The few that remain are affected, certainly in the UK and doubtless elsewhere, by an ultra-sensitivity by those in authority to the remote possibility of risk. The fact that in the past century or so there has not been a problem with free-flight models is ignored by those concerned about bucks stopping with them and affecting their military career. It’s called ‘ownership of risk’.
2) There are fewer young people coming into the sport and those still flying are getting older; it’s probably fair to say that the majority are nearer 80 than 50. One result is that retrieving models is becoming harder for many; despite this, on one UK site the organisers apparently ban motorised retrieving!
3) The models used in the main F1 classes are expensive if bought and require some quite specialised equipment if built at home. At this stage someone usually reminds us that the World Champs are the Formula 1 of free flight and that isn’t cheap either. I don’t regard Formula 1 as a sport, but more of an advertising medium involving fast cars; it depends on sponsors, so let’s get that one out of the way. The fact remains that at present competing effectively in a World Championships class requires four models that may well cost upwards of a couple of thousand dollars each.
4) The performance of today’s models guarantees that they will fly outside most of the flying sites that are now available. OK, I know this probably doesn’t apply to Lost Hills and Mongolia, but most of us /_do care_/ about the rest of the world. We need models that /_can _/be flown in contests on most available sites, rather than those that certainly can’t.
5) There is one factor that has produced the major increase in model performance and that is variable incidence or camber for horizontal flying surfaces. This has enabled the bunt launch in F1A and it is this, rather than circle tow, which has effectively doubled the potential performance of gliders. In F1B v.i.t. and v.i.w. has tamed the power of today’s rubber and made 100 metres or so reachable to start the glide. In F1C today’s climb altitudes would be impossible without variable incidence or movable surfaces.
6) The aim for the proposed rule change is to enable those with current models to use them in future, though obviously with some major trim changes. What we don’t want is for current flyers to give up. At the same time we need to make FAI flying more accessible to more people who are currently put off, whether by cost, performance or, by extension, by retrieving difficulties resulting from long flights.
7) Simply put, I suggest that no change of camber or incidence of horizontal flying surfaces be allowed for F1A or F1B, apart from DT. I admit that for F1C no solution seems possible that doesn’t involve making at least some models obsolete, for instance folders. I expect some opposition from those selling electronics and widgets involved with current technology (sorry, Roger!), and from those who will tell us that you can’t stop progress or un-invent stuff.
Standby for incoming…
Electronic Timer 4 AMA gas
From: Mike Richardson
Morning Roger,
In the SEN 2179 Ted Hidinger is looking for a electronic timer for large gas models. Dick Covalt in Anderson, Indiana has been fabricating just the thing for the past 5 years or so. He can be contacted at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I cannot find a contact for Ted so if you could pass this info on to him or give me his email I will contact him.
I just have to say, I love the F1Q posts. Conversations like these always make me smile.
My older brother Marty flies Q and even won the Nats last year. Not bad considering this was his first Q contest. He was flies a low performance John Oldenkamp design that kept breaking apart but thanks to CA and clear packing tape he achieved a clean card and won the fly off. His advantage was the 40 second allotted motor run. Which he did not take advantage of, due to the timer could not be programmed longer than 28 seconds.
This year Nats he changed to a different timer which turned out to be a disaster due to programming problems but all was saved thanks to Dick Ivers and Drake Hook. But Marty chose only to use a 35 second motor run, he was afraid of the model leaving the field. As for why he didn't place in the top 3 you ask. Well, he missed a round because he couldn't get a fresh battery loaded in time.
Dick and Aram are on the right track about using a F1B design. As for myself, I'm going the old school route. Or should I say, the poor mans route. Also less things to go wrong.
Later my friend,
Mike Richardson
.....................
Roger Morrell
- Sierra Cup
- California FAI and Kotuku
- Dino to a T
- Stop the wing moving
- Electronic Timer for AMA Gas
40th Annual Sierra Cup
FAI International Free Flight Contest
October 2-4, 2016
A World and America’s Cup Event
Sponsored by:
Southern California Aero Team
Lost Hills, California, USA
FAI International Free Flight Contest
October 2-4, 2016
A World and America’s Cup Event
Sponsored by:
Southern California Aero Team
Lost Hills, California, USA
Schedule of Events:
Sunday, October 2 Mini Events F1G, F1H, F1J/P Combined, F1S
5-90 minute rounds starting at 9 AM and sharing a 2nd contest with Kotuku Cup Minis.
(2 Mini contests on the same day-2 flights per round) Rounds may be lengthened if
required. Sierra Cup flies second flight each round. Flyoffs following round 5 . BBQ
follows flying on Sunday on the field-free with entry.
Monday, October 3 F1A, F1B, F1C and F1Q
7 one hour rounds starting at 8AM. Flyoffs start will be posted after Round 7.
Tuesday, October 4 Reserve Day
Potential morning flyoffs for previous days events starting at 7 AM with 10 minute or
more max as well as reserve day due to previous bad weather. NEW F1E on hill details
to be announced.
The contest will be run to current FAI rules and maxes in seven round format. No motoflapping.
FAI Stamp should be shown at registration if flying for World Cup points.
Send Entries Fees to and Request Further Information From: Address may be potentially
updated for planned move by CD.
Mike McKeever - CD
4252 Mockingbird St
Fair Oaks, Ca 95628
(916) 967-8475
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Entry Fees:
Any single event (Mini or Maxi) $45
A “Mini” event and one “Maxi” event $60
Entry includes Fund Raiser - extra Fund Raiser $20 each
F1E $20
Entries to be received with check payable to SCAT before Sunday September 25. If you
request to be on a pole with someone, I would suggest entry by mail before September
25. Non-US competitors may advise of entry before September 25 and pay at the field.
Entry:
Name:____________________________E-Mail____________________ AMA #___________________
Address:__________________________________State_____Zip_________Country_______________
Event: Circle Those You Will Fly F1A F1B F1C F1Q F1P/J F1G F1H F1S F1E
Entry Fee and Extra Fund Raiser Tickets Enclosed $____________
KOTUKU CUP
Oct 1st&2nd Reserve Oct 4th, 2016 at Lost Hills Field, CA
Sponsored by Southern California Aero Team
WORLD CUP of NEW ZEALAND
Sanction No.16 -xxxxx
AMERICAS CUP
SIERRA CUP BANQUET – SUNDAY NIGHT ON THE FIELD- AFTER MINI FLYOFFS
Sponsored by Southern California Aero Team
WORLD CUP of NEW ZEALAND
Sanction No.16 -xxxxx
AMERICAS CUP
SIERRA CUP BANQUET – SUNDAY NIGHT ON THE FIELD- AFTER MINI FLYOFFS
Saturday, Oct 1st: F1A, F1B, F1C, F1Q, F1P
Seven 18dfb0df7cee95c90f2b17077a270457 one hour rounds start @ 8:00 AM with extended max times
F1A ,B,C, and Q 240 seconds first round F1P 180
Remaining round maxes are 180 sec.
Fly off schedule 30 min after end of last round. Event start times will be posted
Sunday Oct 2nd F1G, F1H, F1J, F1S
Tie Breaker flight to the ground. F1G 7:30- 7:40; F1H 7:45-7:55; F1S & F1J 8:10 – 8:20
There may be a slight delay if F1A, F1B, F1C require morning fly offs
Standard Four [4) rounds 90 minute long starting @ 9AM, 120 sec maxes,
Fly to the ground to count as round 1 and will be the flyoff tiebreaker
90-minute rounds to be shared with Sierra Cup
Tie breaker as above 10 second engine time to the ground
F1S will run in rounds the same as F1H, F1G, & F1J (10 sec engine 2 minute max)
Entry Fees:
FAI events: FIA, B, C, G, H, J, P, Q; $30 first event, $10 for second
AMA age juniors: $5/event, or All-In Fee of $10
Awards
Trophies awarded for 1-2-3 places in F1A, B, C, G, H, & S
Junior Hi-Time Trophy Glider, Rubber
F1Q, F1P & F1J 1st only
Notes:
AMA & Lost Hills Field Assn memberships are MANDATORY
FAI events run to the 2016 FAI rules
Q flyers to measure, calculate, and monitor one another’s motor runs
Flight line will move as needed to avoid retrieval from fields of trees
No Moto-flapping
RDT allowed all events.
Contest Director
Brian Van Nest
2346 Cheyenne Dr
Bishop CA 93514
Home 760-873-5073
Cell 760-937-0177
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Dino to a T
From: Michael Achterberg
Hello.
There you go Jack.. F1t1... Electric F1c.. Now, you have an F1c replacement that will create a lot of interest in the power camp.. Models wont be complicated by fuel, vibrations and everyone will have same power source.
Clean and quiet and fly like a power model from the 90's.. Sounds like the model we watched at the maxmen a few years ago..
There is a lot of interest in the venue, but getting something passed and then not changed is the problem.
Here is an idea.... Ask the power flyers for there input. Leave the glider and rubber guys
out of the discussion.. We don't need another F1p event that replaced a perfect F1j event.. The designers of F1p event, with all good intentions, came up with a model that the juniors didn't like, was way harder to fly and killed interest. They complained about excessive performance as a reason. Lets see. Humm.. Anyone come up with the novel idea of cutting engine run down from 7 sec to 5sec. Wow, what a concept..
If you want a popular event such as your describing then ask the power people. Those still flying and those who just quit cause of last rule changes..
Michael
From Dino land....
Stop the wing moving ...
From: Martin Dilly
Here’s something to raise a few hackles. In the World Championships classes we have some problems. Let me first echo CHE’s thoughts regarding the earlier person who “.. doesn’t care what the rest of the world is doing."; … Like it or not, the clue is in that word ‘World’, - not US, not Californian, but /World/, so that’s how we need to look at it, blinkers off.
Let me touch on a few of the main problems we have in free flight (I believe ‘challenges’ or ‘opportunities’ are more popular words in spin doctor circles, but I’ll stick with ‘problems’, thanks).
1) There are far fewer flying sites available now for free flight. In many countries military airfields have closed or been returned to agriculture or used for housing. The few that remain are affected, certainly in the UK and doubtless elsewhere, by an ultra-sensitivity by those in authority to the remote possibility of risk. The fact that in the past century or so there has not been a problem with free-flight models is ignored by those concerned about bucks stopping with them and affecting their military career. It’s called ‘ownership of risk’.
2) There are fewer young people coming into the sport and those still flying are getting older; it’s probably fair to say that the majority are nearer 80 than 50. One result is that retrieving models is becoming harder for many; despite this, on one UK site the organisers apparently ban motorised retrieving!
3) The models used in the main F1 classes are expensive if bought and require some quite specialised equipment if built at home. At this stage someone usually reminds us that the World Champs are the Formula 1 of free flight and that isn’t cheap either. I don’t regard Formula 1 as a sport, but more of an advertising medium involving fast cars; it depends on sponsors, so let’s get that one out of the way. The fact remains that at present competing effectively in a World Championships class requires four models that may well cost upwards of a couple of thousand dollars each.
4) The performance of today’s models guarantees that they will fly outside most of the flying sites that are now available. OK, I know this probably doesn’t apply to Lost Hills and Mongolia, but most of us /_do care_/ about the rest of the world. We need models that /_can _/be flown in contests on most available sites, rather than those that certainly can’t.
5) There is one factor that has produced the major increase in model performance and that is variable incidence or camber for horizontal flying surfaces. This has enabled the bunt launch in F1A and it is this, rather than circle tow, which has effectively doubled the potential performance of gliders. In F1B v.i.t. and v.i.w. has tamed the power of today’s rubber and made 100 metres or so reachable to start the glide. In F1C today’s climb altitudes would be impossible without variable incidence or movable surfaces.
6) The aim for the proposed rule change is to enable those with current models to use them in future, though obviously with some major trim changes. What we don’t want is for current flyers to give up. At the same time we need to make FAI flying more accessible to more people who are currently put off, whether by cost, performance or, by extension, by retrieving difficulties resulting from long flights.
7) Simply put, I suggest that no change of camber or incidence of horizontal flying surfaces be allowed for F1A or F1B, apart from DT. I admit that for F1C no solution seems possible that doesn’t involve making at least some models obsolete, for instance folders. I expect some opposition from those selling electronics and widgets involved with current technology (sorry, Roger!), and from those who will tell us that you can’t stop progress or un-invent stuff.
Standby for incoming…
Electronic Timer 4 AMA gas
From: Mike Richardson
Morning Roger,
In the SEN 2179 Ted Hidinger is looking for a electronic timer for large gas models. Dick Covalt in Anderson, Indiana has been fabricating just the thing for the past 5 years or so. He can be contacted at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I cannot find a contact for Ted so if you could pass this info on to him or give me his email I will contact him.
I just have to say, I love the F1Q posts. Conversations like these always make me smile.
My older brother Marty flies Q and even won the Nats last year. Not bad considering this was his first Q contest. He was flies a low performance John Oldenkamp design that kept breaking apart but thanks to CA and clear packing tape he achieved a clean card and won the fly off. His advantage was the 40 second allotted motor run. Which he did not take advantage of, due to the timer could not be programmed longer than 28 seconds.
This year Nats he changed to a different timer which turned out to be a disaster due to programming problems but all was saved thanks to Dick Ivers and Drake Hook. But Marty chose only to use a 35 second motor run, he was afraid of the model leaving the field. As for why he didn't place in the top 3 you ask. Well, he missed a round because he couldn't get a fresh battery loaded in time.
Dick and Aram are on the right track about using a F1B design. As for myself, I'm going the old school route. Or should I say, the poor mans route. Also less things to go wrong.
Later my friend,
Mike Richardson
.....................
Roger Morrell