SEN 1505

Table of Contents - SEN 1505

  1. Innovation  << featured article
  2. F1A for retirees
  3. The Sky has fallen of F1A and ...
  4. Survey for possible may Lost Hills event   << important not flapping ! folding or being too old or whatever - just flying
  5. F1A State of the Sport
  6. Looking for a Fora Prop
  7. Out of the box - why not
  8. For whatever its Worth - probably nothing - (you said it)
  9.  Wiffenpool Wakefield Dispatched
  10. F1E Cal Cup
  11. For sale 2 F1As


Hi Jon Davis,


F1A's recent flapper and airfoil designs follow earlier F1B DPR and variable pitch prop innovations and F1C flapper, folder and the geared engine. Eureka! Exactly what's expected of FAI. But there is almost always a down side to these innovations and it really takes years to perfect them. In the mean time cleaning up the old designs often out performs the new stuff. I know that in F1C many fliers using designs 20 years old are winning more than their share. They are doing it by making their models very clean and held to minimum weight and good old fashion air picking. Nothing extreme -- just good basic principles. Unless you revel in new fads, holding true to the past isn't a bad way to go.


Gil Morris

Editor's Comment ... Innovation is what F1 ABCEQ is all about. It takes a lot to get these to work properly and some of these innovations never work or get overtaken by something better , and in the case of Roland's F1A cheaper.


F1a for retirees

Dear MTB(igot)

Please don't chafe over big, all new equipment costs: you are only a third of a dwindling Social Security check (plus the savings from a few Denny's early bird specials and a modest Geritol cutback) away from joining the F1a Revolution.

Send some sheckles to Vasi or other builders and they will turn out some fantastic bargain priced newfangled wings to match up w your sage, well-worn but still with plenty of life fuselage(s) and stab(s). You will save big bucks over All New Stuff.

Careful analysis of postings on this forum have let me to conclude that those in the ... er... uh... ahem... "more senior" age cohort seems to really love a bargain - almost as much as they like beating these young, rich whippersnappers with older, used or swap-meet equipment. So it can be a two-fer!

You can even save a bit on construction and postage by ordering them in pieces and uncovered. Spend your time finishing them up instead of playing checkers, shuffleboard, watching the Weather Channel, complaining about ailments, the Younger Generation, or other common activities of the elderly of spirit.

If you were going Pinks All Out (look it up, its on that "internet" thingy -- its where crafty elderly people use treachery to kick butt on the younger high-priced generation all the time), you could contact our host or those Favionics dudes and they could hook you up with some more recently manufactured and more capable electronics that could handle the additional servos you've retrofitted into your existing fuselages. There is plenty of room in there.

That way no one will know that hidden underneath your old paint scraped fuselage are some fancy cutting edge electronics!

You could have trickery and deception or you could skip this for more savings. Wow. What a cross-pressure! What to do, what to do, what to do???

I'm sure our gracious E-host could even facilitate the selling off existing wings and redundant timers to newbies through a posting. Even MORE savings!

This penny-pinching thrill in itself may provide the necessary motivation to join the fray. However, the LAST thing you want to happen is to get beat on the field of battle by a younger warrior using your old pawned off F1a stuff. That would be terrible but would generate little in the way of sympathy.


Gene Ulm, Partner
Public Opinion Strategies, LLC

Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld.


- and we have a deal for you see Rene's For sale at the end of this message

The sky has fallen on F1A and ... ?

Your letter in latest SEN hits the nail on the head.
I too fear we are witness to the beginning of the end of being able to compete on an even
playing field in F1A events, as witnessed during the three contests at Fab Feb Lost Hills. 
Even should I be able to subtract 20 years from my age, I doubt I would care/be able to
invest the $$$ that it would take to restock my fleet with latest, greatest tech advanced birds.
One reason I left Lost Hills on Friday was that I felt no chance of being competitive with
the top half of the flyers. Hence, it was to have been useless to even enter.
Buzz Averill's commentary on RC DLG current high tech/$$ direction should serve as  another eye opener for us.
I too see no solution.

Survey for a Possible May Lost Hills Contest

I am considering running a contest at Lost Hills in the end of May, beginning of June time frame. 
For the last five years a number of F1C fliers (myself included) and F1B fliers have come to the Lost Hills flying field four or five days prior to the Big Al's Memorial Day contest, to test fly, to visit (bull sessions), and to enjoy each others company, and then to fly in the Big Al's contest .  A very enjoyable time.
With the Big Al's contest being moved to October (which I fully endorsed) I now see a big hole in the FAI F1 contest schedule, a sentiment expressed by a number of other fliers as well. 
Although I have tried, it has not been possible to obtain an America's Cup Sanction.  Will this fact impact attendence at a real good FAI F1 contest, great competition at the best flying field in the United States, with high quality Silver Trophies, the same as those that used to be presented at the earlier Sierra Cup contests?  I sincerely hope not!
This survey will be used to measure the interest in a FAI F1 contest at Lost Hills either on Memorial Day or two weeks later on the second weekend of June, and the events to be flown.
The events to be flown for sure would be F1A, F1B, and F1C.
Additional possible events would be F1G, F1H, and F1J and F1P combined, depending on the results of this survey!
If you have the interest and plan to attend the contest, please email me at:
   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.  BY MARCH 15TH   include the following information:
Event(s) you plan to compete in 
Preference of date, either Memorial day weekend, May 28-29 or June 11-12
or telephone   1 (817) 599-3088
If possible, come early and practice fly with us............ this is the first contest following the World Championships, it's possible that 7 of the team members from the 2011 USA Team will be this contest.  Come talk with them, find out what all happened, enjoy some good bull sessions, etc!!!!
Roger Simpson

F1A State of the Sport

I appreciate Mac the Bigot’s concern for the health of our beloved F1A sport, but I came away from the February contests with a much different view.  What could be more exciting and healthy for the event but to see all 3 contests won not by expensive and complicated flappers, but by a simple fixed wing model with a low drag airfoil!  Roland Koglot proved to the world that a basic model with nothing much new other than an F1C like airfoil could actually launch higher than most of the flappers and glide very well and he put these models together himself although he does have people that build wings for him.  In the flyoff at the AZM / Ike contest both Roland and Per Findahl’s flapper were launched within seconds of each other in similar air and both glided down at close to the same rates.  Roland ended up winning with only slightly more time which could have been no more than the difference of how long the timers could see the models as both flights were in the 7 minute range in late evening air.  So in this case the simple fixed model and a flapper went neck and neck to the finish line.


During the early morning flyoffs at both the Pan Am Cup and the Maxmen Roland won in rather decisive fashion beating the flappers by around 30 or 40 seconds.  It is interesting to note that second place in the Maxmen was Andrew Barron flying a standard conventional model of the type we all have been flying for years and he beat a few other flappers on the field!  Andrew did it with plain old great flying by simply getting a really strong launch using his trademark thin towline.  I don’t think our conventional models are done yet.  They are still as competitive as anything when flown during the thermal rounds where it is all about air anyway, and most of our flyoffs are still flown when there are at least some thermals as well and anyone can win if they choose the best strategy.  These 3 February contests were an anomaly in that all three had flyoffs in relatively calm non thermal air which clearly favored Roland, but don’t forget that 2nd place by Andrew in the dead air!


We should all be excited that building or buying models like Roland flew should be easier than ever and not necessarily expensive.  The wings are thicker than the old norm at around 7 to 8% which makes building strong much easier!  (dare I use the term “building models”!)  One of Roland’s models was a convention D-box structure so any enterprising modeler could procure some F1C D-box shells and build a set of wings similar to Roland’s.  Roland’s other model had a molded foam core wing that he had a friend build for him.  This is nothing more than pretty standard RC glider wing technology.  If one doesn’t want to jump into it like I have (and see that it really isn’t very hard) it certainly wouldn’t be that hard to connect with an RC glider builder and have some wings built.  The price would still be way below that of flapper wings!  And of course there are already some free flight builders making wings with the new BE airfoils available.


Finally some people came away thinking that Roland must be running much faster than us mere mortals.  Allard just posted a video of one of Roland’s launches of Facebook.  It is interesting to note that Roland did not appear to be running particularly fast and yet his launch was tremendously high.  I observed the same thing during the week that his run looked pretty much like many other flyers, but his timing and technique were perfect.  So I believe that the winning ingredients are available to a wide range of flyers and not just those with real big wallets or real muscular legs, but rather those that are willing to make the necessary investment of time and energy with a few $ thrown in.  Isn’t that the way it should be?



Looking for a Fora Prop

Lynn Pulley This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Does anyone out there have a 2 blade or 3 blade hub,(not the ajustable pitch version), for a Fora geared engine, that they would like to part with?

If so please contact me by email.


Out of the box - why not ?

Some remarks on the changes in F1A-competitions by Jon Davis:
whats wrong with development and thinking out of the box, instead of running behind trends and buying what everyone buys ?
Is n't it wonderfull to see that the recent successfull laminair profile concept is going back in time and complexity ? No flapper mechanics, no wigglers, a bit heavy and a tough profile. Thats years ago ! As far as I can see it also must be less expensive...Some years ago ff-people declared you mad with these wing concepts that our colleague RC-modell flyers using already some years. Keep your eyes open !
Ron Kreetz 

For what it's worth (probably nothing)...

In the 1960s-1970s I flew A/2 Nordic (now called F1A for whatever reason)
using simple all-balsa & plywood designs which often maxed easily, costing
less than $100 to construct.  Is it any wonder interest is waning when today
THOUSANDS must be spent in an effort to be (allegedly) competitive?

No WONDER new people aren't getting into F/F!!!

Mike Keville


Whiffenpool Wakefield Dispatched: 

The coded cinnamon Red-Hots were drawn as specified, the first number going to Juan Livito, CA;  2nd, John Ctvrtik, Ohio, and, 3rrd, Bruce Augustua, Colorado.  Winner please contact me, please:  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..  Many thanks to all who showed interest.

John Oldenkamp

The 6th CAL Cup F1E World Cup

The 6th CAL Cup F1E World Cup event was successfully completed on Tuesday, Feb 15
at the Holloway Dunes.
Direction changes necessitated moving to eastern hill with slight delay to start of flying.
We flew 7 rounds, with Peter Brocks flying consistently well to pip Ian Kaynes, who developed stall troubles in last rounds whilst leading. 
Unfortunately, only 4 sportsmen of the 7 entries were able to join the competition.



For record, here are the scores of the flyers:

1. Peter Brocks...597.15

2. Ian Kaynes......514.14

3. Tom Ioerger.....444.03

4. Dick Wood...... 25.18

For Sale: 2 Lil Al Electronic Models

For sale are 2 Lil Al models in good condition.

Model #46
* very light, original Lil Al wings, M&K Airfoil, Vasy made
* 2 wing joiners, steel/carbon
* polyspan/salzer covering
* "Stamov" fuselage, 4 servos (Stab, Rudder, WW, Hook)
* Mechanical, Servo, Relatchable Hook
* "Stamov" Wobbeking Stab
* model is missing electronic timer, other than that, ready to fly

Model #53
* special order Lil Al wings, B6356b Airfoil, Vasy made
* 2 wing joiners, steel/carbon
* polyspan/salzer covering/inside-out
* "Stamov" fuselage, 4 servos (Stab, Rudder, WW, Hook)
* Mechanical, Servo, Relatchable Hook
* "Stamov" Wobbeking Stab
* model is missing electronic timer, other than that, ready to fly

Asking $700 each. Models currently in Simi Valley, CA. Shipping possible but at buyers expense.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Sponsor's message  - the Black Magic extended Timer would be great for these models - contact This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Roger Morrell