SEN 1194 2008

Table of Contents - SEN 1194 - 19 March 2008


  1. Looking for Vintage A2 Plans ?
  2. Thoughts about Mura Cup
  3. Ice Flash
  4. Scat Annual Results
  5. Annual Pictures
  6. Rossi 15
  7. A continuation on Vintage A2 - anyone ?
  8. Radio D/T, Attempts and HOWL ?
  9. Gil Kerswap
  10. Electric FF


Looking for Vintage A2 Plans:

Look no further, check out Clarion's website listing of hundreds of
glider plans of all types, under "Old Clarion Plans Index" from Peter
Michell - a wonderful resource !

Tally Ho

- Biggles


 thoughts about Mura Cup

from: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


May be of interest to your readers!
Veronika Salzer



Three Nuts for Modellers

·         Full mouths happily chewing adults and children – but it is not chewing gum…

·         Fly, fly, everything flies which has wings, everything flies – but it is no child’s play…

·         Folk and gypsy music sounds full of happiness and temperament but behind the instruments there are no adults…

Three nuts for Cinderella like these I would like to have more often. In fact, there were even more nuts …

Only the wind blew them to all directions. It pursued us and changed its direction more often than some people their opinions …

The best company to be imagined creates sunshine after the rainy weather at home.

Can you already guess where we are?

Juchuuuu …guess well … Mura Cup 2008, first time as a World Cup.

·         Fragrance of plates full of home-made cake waiting at the registration. Excellent organization on both days, timely information posted, pleasant microphone voice informs about any change and insures the quality of the contest, enough sharp eyed timekeepers, at noon nice smell of Slovenian goulash for everybody.

·         Strong wind blew different thoughts towards some people, but blew away the airplanes, under, over, and into trees … well supported thanks to professional help, all planes were retrieved by the next day at the latest.

·         The good mood at the get-together in the evening was supported by a family band – two brothers and their cousin: 12, 10 and 8 year old boys. I could not tear myself away from them. They are said not to be able to read music. Why should they, they were born with fiddle, accordion and cello and heard only music at home. Who needs to read music? These boys learned music by themselves. A good example, with enough motivation the apple does not fall far from the tree. Does that not mean insufficient motivation of our children if there is no new generation of modelers growing up? But Stop! that is not valid for the organizers of the Mura Cup. They hold a summer camp for children aged between 6 and 16 each year, where paper planes and free flight gliders are built and flown, and generally fun is had.

Tip your hat, ladies and gentlemen, to these activities and to the Mura Cup 2008.

Cinderella would, however, have one more unfulfillable nut-wish: less wind. But that is only a dream.

But no wind will blow away the wishes packed into the nuts: happy memories of the Mura Cup.

One more surprise-nut at the end:

To ease the muscles and bones after chasing the planes the Moravske Toplice spa resort ( with its black thermal water, sauna, massages, therapies, beauty farm, etc. waits right at the flying field!


Ice Flash


  1. Eimar
  2. Andriukov
  3. Ghio
that's all that got this far .. so far...

 SCAT Annual 2008 Report

From:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.



Well, it did not snow on Ridge Rte to keep people from coming over the
Tehachapie mountains on I-5, as happened in '06.
Nor was it as as good and warm as last year.
The record-high gas prices sure did not help our attendance.
Nonetheless, 45 fliers signed in for the proceedings in coolish, varied spring conditions. 

Drift direction toward the Pits resulted in dropping the extended max for round 1 back
to 180sec.  That was the max time for all seven rounds, in fact.
Dramatic clouds gave credence to the forecast of scattered light showers &
thunder storms, which finally, in round 5 on Saturday the systemic low
visited our little corner of the world, with turbulent winds and some rain.
Flying was suspended at the end of rd 5 while we waited it out.
The storm's rotation forced me to move flying to the western area, used
at prior events, including last year's SCAT Annual on Sunday.
Rounds 6 & 7 were flown there. The breeze kept moving clockwise until
mid-round 7 it was blustery to the south, as our second squall came in from north.
Several fliers got knocked down from better scores in the last rounds.
Roger Morrell had an F1B flyaway which was not found, sorry to say.
In other events, Tim Batiuk won HLG with 827.
The Malkhasyan boys, with Taron's HLG getting a bit more time than Sevak
They both flew Tip Launch style and were doing quite well.
They are advancing, and real triers, too!
Wes Funk retains the Nos Wake Perp Trophy, again, as the only entry....
There were no F1P or Vintage FAI Power entrants, btw.
The weather deteriorated such that the Fly Offs for F1ABC were deferred
til 8AM Sunday,when we flew from the west side flightline, with 5 F1A fliers
in the FO.
Rene Limberger went quickly behind the line & found lift right away for
440sec winner flt.  I went norwest 100yds to a plowed field, the air felt good,
so I launched doing 314sec for 2nd.  Mike Thompson did not quite hit Rene's
big air, but nonetheless did 301sec for 3rd.
F1B had 2 FO fliers, while F1C had 3 fliers maxout, and went shortly in mild, light drift.
Dave Sax pipped Dick Wood, 252 to 240sec for the win. Mike Mulligan came
3rd, having dropped 24sec in rd 3.
Matt Gewain did a fine 468sec, with Lynn Pulley's 314 giving him 2nd, over
Ken Happersett with 257sec in 3rd place.
The Mini events then started with F1H Tie Breaker Flights to the Ground @ 9AM.
It was still calm, but lo & behold there was good lift again, with McK the WC
& myself DTing nearly overhead at 10 minutes!  He was about 500-600ft up,
landing @ 742sec. My H was ONLY about 300ft high, for 633sec, with Pierre
turning in 550sec.  They were beaut flts to behold.
F1G, J & Q then went for their TB flights, with Mark Belfield turning in the
best Coupe flt of 493sec.  Dave Johannes & Dick Wood were alone in J & Q.
Dave scored 350sec & Dick did 233sec, respectively.
The drift started to rotate to the south and east, so we moved back to our
normal eastern flightline to start round 1. 
The TB flight did not count as a round, btw.
Tim B was quickly flying Classic Towline and Catapult Glider, along with
the Malkhasyan boys, and the Mini fliers were bunging in maxes in fine
fashion, with the only drops being Norm's H crashing and Dick Wood's Q.
Then it started to blow, & got stronger. 
It went over limit fairly quickly, so rd 2 was delayed...& delayed...
Finally, at about noon:30, I called a halt to the proceedings & handed out the awards. 
My sincere thanks go to Sharron Emery, Merry Smith for taking such
good care of the control table, Mike Thompson for use of his Popup
and general helpfulness, Jim Parker for grabbing our cones & med kit.
AND...all you participants...Thanks for coming!
yr fthfl CD srvnt,
Lee Hines
The Results:
1  Rene Limberger
   180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO440=1700
2  Lee Hines
   180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO314=1574
3  Mike Thompson
    180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO301=1561
4  Peter Brocks
    180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO292=1552
5  Dan Protheroe
    180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO285=1545
6  Hector Diez
     180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FOdnf=1260
7  Don Zink
     180 180 180 180 180 159 180=1239
8  Norm Smith
    180 169 180 168 125 180 180=1182
9  Andrew Barron
    180 155 180 180 180 180 126=1181
10 Tim Barron
    180 180 127 180 180 120 180=1147
11 Jon Davis
     180 180 180  85 157 180 180=1136
12 Mike McKeever
     180 180 180 180  91 180 124=1115
13 Jim Parker
     180 180 180 180 180 180 0 =1080
14 Peter Allnutt
     180 141 180 180 180 DNF =861
15 Pierre Brun
      180 180 180 70 DNF = 610
16 Risto Puhakka
       92  95  52  DNF  =239
1   Dave Saks
     180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO252=1512
2   Dick Wood
     180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO240=1500
3   Mike Mulligan
     180 180 156 180 180 180 180=1236
4   Bob Piserchio
     180 180 135 180 180 180 180=1215
5   Bob Tymchek
     180 180 180 124 180 180 180=1204
6   Gene Jensen
     180 180 170 180 180 120 180=1190
7   Blake Jensen
     180 180 180 180 180 108 180=1188
8   George Batiuk
     180 180 180 180 180 180 104=1184
9   Roger Morrell
     180 180 180 180 103 172 180=1175
10 Martin Schroedter
     180 180 180 180 180 123 116=1139
11 Jack Emery
     180 180 180 180  93 180   0  = 993
12 Rich Rohrke
      180 180 180 144 180 DNF  = 864
13 Al Ulm
     135 125 180 180  DNF     = 620
14 Aimie Schroedter
      180 180   DNF   =  360
1   Matt Gewain
     180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO468=1728
2   Lynn Pulley
     180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO314=1574
3   Ken Happersett
     180 180 180 180 180 180 180 FO257=1517
4   Ed Carroll
     180 180 180 180 180 160 180=1240
5   Dave Johannes
     180 180 180 129 180 180 180=1209
6   Jeff Ellington
     180 180 128 180 DNF =848
Hand Launch Glider
1   Tim Batiuk     120 x 6 + 107=827
2   Lee Hines        80 113 120=313
3   Peter Brocks  38 40 2=80
HLG Juniors
1 Taron Malkhasyan  61 53 68=182
2 Sevak Malkhasyan  52 47 61=160
Nos Wake
1 Wes Funk 135
Sunday events:

1   Mark Belfield
     120 + 493TB
2   Peter Brocks
     120 + 330TB
3   Kurt Van Nest
     120 + 117TB
4   Jack Emery
       0  + 158TB
5   Bob Van Nest
      0  +  145TB
1   Mike McKeever      120 + 742TB
2   Lee Hines                120 + 633TB
3   Pierre Brun            120 + 550TB
4   Jim Parker             120 + 351TB
5   Jon Davis                120 + 249TB
6   Mike Thompson   120
7   Norm Smith             31 
1  Dave Johannes       120
1 Dick Wood              54
Catapult Glider-Open   1 Tim Batiuk    120 79 71=270
CLG-Jr  1  Taron Malkhasyan    46 53 120=219
              2  Sevak Malkhasyan    46 42  35=123
Classic Towline Glider
1   Tim Batiuk  120 155 234=509
Shoot me a line if you have any queries.
That is our 30 mark for this year...see you next year.

SCAT Annual Pics from Jason Emer y- who came to see what madness Grandfather Jack was up to


Hi RM,
He said OK to pass to you for SEN posting.
Now doing the post-comp paperwork.


Rossi 15

From:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Hi Roger,
If it is appropriate, would you put a note on SEN that I just posted the following on E-Bay: Rossi 15. This is a new  ABC engine that has just been inspected by Galbreath. His comment, "Nice, excellent condition".

 - Rex

The SEN Web Site - has a market place section for items for sale . Subscribed users can enter their own ad on to the Web Site and it will stay there for 30 days or so before being deleted.


a continuation on the Vintage  A2 anyone

From Hector Diez


Hello Roger,a continuation on the Vintage  A2 anyone                                
 I am not trying to reinvent the wheel or create a new event,class.Obviously there are too many allready and not enough participants.
I thought  that my reference  to "models of the 50's  and 60's was a good definition of what we are trying to promote.
In the late 60's, early 70's there was a number of models of conventional construction that were converted to circle tow ,so the reference to straight tow will allow them to be flown in this mode. I am afraid that an arbitrary cut off date will eliminate some of them. I will appreciate any suggestion on a cut off date that will not eliminate any,otherwise  we will have operate on the good faith basic concept of 'before circle tow and composites'.

By the  way,any sportsmen that presents me an  M & K or Stamov model of the 50's or 60's will be cheerfully welcomed.
I believe that trackers  or  R.C. dt do not affect the performance of the models ,so I have no  objection to their use and they are much safer than  a fuse,regarding the use of an electronic timer,any one willing to spend his money on that to use the D.T.function only is using his money not mine and the single function electronic timers had been around for a long time,so no objection to them.

Auto rudders that control the straight tow portion of the flight and give turn  upon release of the model ( two positions rudder)were very much in use in that era and should be accepted.Anyone that presents a model with documentation to prove that flappers,wing wigglers,v.i.t ,etc were part of the design at that time should also be accepted.
About throwing the line ,my memory is that throwing the line was accepted as  part of a safety rule that forbid the throwing of the reel or towing device and should be accepted on the same basis.The penalty for throwing the reel was disqualification ,even if it slipped of your hand accidentally.

With the b.o.m. rule I have some mixed feelings,personally I am in favor of it,but I also have some serious objections.
1) It's almost unenforceable,and  a rule that can not be enforced fairly is not a good rule.
2)I don't think that this event will generate a market for mass production of models and the cooperation of father,son or groups of friends working in the construction of a model could be very stimulating .

I also favor the participation of "teams", where the builder  and flyier register for the competition as a team.Again , the rational is to include not exclude.
Actually ,if you know of one of this models collecting dust in the attic or garage rafters,talk to the owner about flying it,or borrow it ,or buy it and put it back to good use at the flying field.
Covering,I love to see a model finished and trimmed in the traditional way of tissue and  dope,but I think that the practicality of synthetic coverings will simplify the finish of a model and stimulate participation.
About the ban ( I hate this word) on carbon, kevlar, composites,the intention is to protect,preserve  the good engineering efforts of the time to design good structures with what was available at the time and avoid the hard launches that such materials will allow.

For the definition of  "straight tow" I believe that anyone that has been in this game for some time knows the meaning and the difference between straight and circle tow. The S.C.A.T. treasurer will not allow me to pay an attorney for a clear , legal definition  of "straight tow",so you are going to have to take my  word  and accept my judgment on that.

 Most of the comments had been constructive and I  appreciate the input.
I am not going to write a 100 pages rules book for something that was intended as  a meeting of sportsmen friends with the objective of reviving the good old days,thus the notion of a few simple rules and some common sense in the aplication of those rules,to involve  as many as posible and not,arbitraterly,disqualify  any one interestad.
Hopefully, we will abide by the "essence of the rules" or "intention of the law".

The biggest problem  I see  with this event is the age factor,where those that may be interested,are about my age and not very interested in running  a couple of hundred yards  towing a glider.For that I  will insit on the  team concept ,allowing  a builder and flyier 'team' to participate.

I hope this clarifies most of the questions presented, but I still  have not seen any comitment or promise to show up with a model and participate in a contest.So, here goes the question again,


Radio DT, attempts and HOWL.....

From: Martin Gregorie


4.  It would be nice if the rulemakers could fix the current loophole
> in the FAI rules that leaves it perfectly legal to use the RDT to
> obtain an attempt
I realise this will probably get howls on anguish but...

The easy way to fix this rules problem is to scrap the 20 second

Besides, its always had unfairness built in. Its simply wrong that a
sportsman should be able to make a terrible sub 20 second flight, max on
the reflight and beat people who flew well all day but dropped a few
seconds on one flight. Scrapping it would fix this problem too.

Martin Gregorie

actually Martin , it sounds fine to me ...


 Gil Kerswap

From: Bob Stalick


 Re: Tony Sheppard's request for info about the Kerswap, the model was published in 1942,
and has been ruled acceptable by SAM for old timer competition here in the USA.
As for Gil's email address, I have <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Try it and see.
Bob Stalick, NFFS


 Electric FF

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


I do not expect to make more as the event has been a dud, and as
more powerful electric motors are used, my unit is not suitable, anyway.
I agree with you that the uptake of electric FF has been disappointing. I
believe it's partly because it represents a significant technology jump in
many areas and people are not there yet. In talking with Frank Pollard who
has had significant success with converted traditional FF power airplanes
says he spent a lot of time working with a wide variety of electric power
plants to get that far.
Ed Mate
I have been trying to jump into electrifc FF for years. I have cored motors, mostly used of all sizes. I guess for E-36. I recently went further with a brand new corless motor and ESC I guess for F1-Q. At this point I have no idea what size FF to prepare for any of them. How big or small can I go for either event? Especially for the new corless motor. If somone would help I could give the specs on what I have and maybe we could work it out. Frank Pollard maybe you can give me what you have?
Thanks, Ed



Roger Morrell