SEN 1262 - 12 Nov 2008

Table of of Contents - SEN 1262 - 12 November 2008

  1. Patterson
  2. About Batteries
  3. Bad Flapper this time
  4. Flappers, Tossers, Lofters beaten bt a Morpher
  5. CHE and the Leaper flapping on such on such lofty subjects ..

America Cup Contest 
Lost Hills, CA November 15&16-2008 
F1A, B, C, G, H, J, P, J, Senior and Open classes combined. 
Perpetual Trophy and Keeper Trophy for First Place in F1A,B,C 
Keeper Trophy for First Place in F1G,H,J, and P. 
New Perpetual Trophy and Medallion for First Place in Nostalgia Wake 
Medallions for 2nd, 3rd places 
Junior High Time Award 
Nostalgia Wake: No rounds, Starts Saturday at 0730 and ends Sunday at 1330 but
you must finish flying the day you start. First three flights are 2 min, 3 min, 4 min,
maxes then 4 min FO flights 
Round Mini Events F1G, H, J 
1. 0730 - 0815 Max 120 sec 
2. 0815 - 0900 Max 120 sec 
3. 0900 - 0945 Max 120 sec 
4. 0945 - 1030 Max 120 sec 
5. 1030 - 1115 Max 120 sec 
Round Open Events F1 A,B,C,P 
1. 1130--1230 Max 180 sec 
2. 1230 –1330 Max 180 sec 
3. 1330 –1430 Max 180 sec 
4. 1430 –1530 Max 180 sec 
5. 1530 --1630 Max 300 sec (Max times may be changed due to weather) 
Flyoff: Mini event flights to start at approximately 1645. Actual 
start time and Max times will be posted at CD table. Flyoff 
participants are to provide timer to Organizer 5 minutes before 
start of flyoff. 
Round F1A,B,C,P 
6. 0730 - 0740 F1A Max:300 sec 
    0750 - 0800 F1B Max:360 sec 
    0810 - 0820 F1P Max:240 sec, F1C Max 420 sec 
7. 0830 – 0930 Max 180 sec 
8. 0930 – 1030 Max 180 sec 
9. 1030 – 1130 Max 180 sec 
10.1130 – 1230 Max 180 sec 
Round 6 may revert to a 1 hr round and 180 Max due to weather. 
Flyoff: F1A,B,C,P flights to start at approximately 1330. Start time 
and max times will be posted at CD table. Flyoff participants to 
provide timer to Organizer 5 minutes before flyoff. 
Contest will be governed by current FAI and AMA regulations and as 
noted. Valid AMA and Lost Hills Association cards required. Score 
Cards are to be returned to the CD table every round. This a fly one, 
time one contest 
Fees: Open: $20.00 For first event - $15 second events. 
FAI Jr: $10.00 for first event - $5.00 second events. 
Sponsored by the Southern California Aero Team 

About batteries...
FROM; This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I was looking for these small batteries. (BR 435) i think. I've previously ordered them and they were just fine for the purpose i needed them for. Now i was just wondering, that do those batteries come in any more voltage? The 3V is just great for Red and yellow Leds that tneed 2.1 or so voltage to light. But if i want to use green or blue LEDs the voltage is not enough. So, do you know if there even exists any?

A bad Flapper this time ?

Dear roger,
As an experienced competitor and jury I wish to get your opinion about my problem as described below..
If you know of any precedent let me know.
If you were me, would you appeal ?
In the FAI sporting code , section 4 Para 3.2.5 it's written that one of the cases for Definition of an Unsuccessful flying Attempt is: "When a part of the model aircraft becomes detached during the launch or during the flight time."
I flew F1B model in a competition and When I launched my model from my hand, one dihedral separated from the center and folded on the center part of the wing. During climbing he fluttered, hanging on the covering film.My model tuched the ground after 45 sec and i did not get a Repeat of an Attempt.
I was told that the wording is very clear, not broke, not deformed but detached therefore I do not deserve another attempt as the part was still loosely connected.

There is no logic to give F1A flyer a second attempt if the timer door fell and in this case not.It is clear that a model can fly without the timer door but not with a folded dihedral yet at the first case the sporting code give another chance to the flyer !!
It is clear, to me, that the spirit of the sporting code is not to punish the flyer for a non voluntary failure ( because if the wing is broken you get a second attempt..)

Another argumentation is that the model's Surface Area become illegal therefor a second attempt can correct the situation...
Hope to get your opinion
Gil Mitzmacher

From:Nick Bosdet

I do wish people would use the correct English terminology when discussing the FAI rules!!! 
The Oxford ENGLISH Dictionary definition of the word "Flapping" is to move something up and down, usually performed by individuals in an agitated state. 
Well, this seems to succinctly describe a FAI competitor who is about drop a max -  panic, help, my thousand Dollar purchase has fouled up (yet) again. 
However, it should be noted that a "Flapper" was a fashionable and unconventional woman of the 1920's, who broke the rules to gain attention, some were known to fly, whilst a number were allegedly highly strung, like some modern media stars I suppose.
Readers should of this discussion thread should be aware that the term "Lofters" is in fact derived from the sport of racing pigeons.  As all FAI fliers will be aware, the pigeon has the aerodynamic qualities of a builder's brick, as opposed to the grace of a soaring eagle.  So I guess it would not be a good idea to clone a Lofter's model design. 
Whilst alternatively followers of golf  will readily appreciate a lofted ball is one that has been tossed up by the upward inclination of the golf club.
Whilst mentioning golf, invented in St Andrews, Scotland, there is of course the "old tossers" - these individuals are restricted to throwing their thermistor pole up in the air, presumably in an attempt to distract the time keeper.
There is a rumour of a new breed of FAI flier - "The Morpher" who use adaptable wing geometry's that " morph" in three dimensions to fulfill the optimum configuration for any flight situation using spatially intelligent materials.  Bunt launches to 125 metres are postulated.
Clearly Morphers have actually read the FAI sporting Code, Section 4 - Aeromodelling Volume F1 Free Flight Model Aircraft where in that paragraph 3.1.1 states that a glider is one that is not provided with a propulsion device...........etc, etc, so that "lofters", "flappers" and any other "old tossers" might like to concentrate on improved model flying rather than looking like a bunch of Morrris Dancers - dressed in dubious clothing with small bells attached to their trousers.
Kind regards from Yorkshire birth place of gliding
CHE and the Leaper flapping on such on such lofty subjects ..
From the NFFS Forum



PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject:  

Rene says "lofting - is that even a word"

Well I was really tempted to write something for Wikipedia on this subject but time is short. In fact lofting is a term used by draughtsmen, see here for an example :-


It's used in any industry where you need to draw/transfer long shapes such as in shipbuilding and aircraft manufacture; Leeperman will give a full description I'm sure. How it got corrupted to mean 'flapping' I'm not sure.


New postPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:16 pm    

Ben, etal,
In your 'friendly competition' with CHE, aka Edge of Beyond, be prepared
for some Scotsman chicanary. Wink
You mention Rock, Paper, Scissors as choice of method for the duel.
Warning: it is an ancient Asian challenge game by my scources info, so
inscrutibilty is a requirement! Surprised
Also: when you are stronger than your opponent, lead him to think he
is the stronger, and vice versa. Confused That from Chinese war rules, I reckon.

And CHE, your definition of the word 'lofting' is accurate in my book...
a draughtsmen can easily see the relationship to 'flapping'
by just dissecting the word 'draughts-men',
singular or plural. Rolling EyesRazz


Roger Morrell