SEN 1055 - 27 Nov 2006

SEN issue 1055 - 27 November 2006

Table of contents
Rules - Findahl
No Thermal Detection? - Shailor
So Big bucks is the problem ?
Jr Team Selection Program for SEN - Parker, Ellis and Batiuk
wffc2007 - Stamov et al

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Hi Roger.

I have with interest seen the discussion about changing of the rules on
the forum.
We also had some discussion here in Sweden, I would like to add some
thoughts that came up in our discussion, off course with some of my own
oppinions added.

One man here in Sweden started to fly F1B a few years ago. After some
years in our sport he says "Freeflight must be the most Intellectual
sport in the world". He has seen many other sports and compared
freeflight with them when he claims those words. Doesn't it taste nice
when you say "Freeflight is the most Intellectual sport in the world"?
He says this after seeing that our rules are so open, and gives so much
freedom to develop our contest equipment. This in combination with the
fact that you also have to have good flying skills, good tactics, beeing
well prepared both physically and mentally, givs a complex sport that is
not se easy to master. The discussion now goes on in the area of contest
equipment, one part of our complex sport. Personally I think that we too
often consetrate our efforts on our contest equipment and forgets the
other parts of our sports, parts that are equally important for making
good results. But anyway, lets continue on the line-contest equipment-the

One reason that we can claim that our sport is Intellectual is that our
rules are so open, giving a big "window" for new inventions. The day we
start to cut down this window with rules that doesn't allow this and
that, we will change the basic idea a lot. We have to think where we
want to go from here. Looking at other sports that has done these strict
rules, one is for example Formula 1 racing. What I have understood after
the discussion in Sweden is that when you look at the cars in Formula 1
racing today, there is not much room for big inventions at all anymore.
The teams spend huge amount of money developing small things on the cars
to have an advantage of the other teams. So, where does this leave us ?
Is this the way we want to go ? We can face the same thing in freeflight
with more strikt rules. The models will be more and more similar,
leaving very little room for new inventions. The really high quality
models can be extremly expensive. Good or bad ?

The problem with visibility. I have a feeling that we are talking about
few contests that had a real problem, but the problem exist. In the
discussion I think we forget somehow that the people doing freeflight,
the most intellectual sport in the world, are really good thinkers and
engineers. The visibility problem is partly the organizers of the
contests, BUT also the problem of the competitor. Why doesn't we think
that all those great inovative people and great engineers involved in
freeflight will find a soultion to make their models easier to see in
the air in a difficult contest situation ? Perhaps it is time to make our
planes more easy to see, then making them fly longer time ? The rules
today leaves us big room to make great inventions in this area ! I'm
sure that the flyers realising this problem will start to develop planes
that is easier to see, perhaps loosing some flying skill of the plane.
Still what is best, to have a plane that fly really long time but is
impossible to see, or a plane that is seen to the ground?

Off course we have the problem with the fields beeing to small. We have
to use Hennings systems more often in the future I think. The helium
balloons are great. They can tell a lot of facts, where to start on the
field to use maximum space, and also information about how long maxtime
to fly.

We also had a discussion about RC in our planes. Personally I don't
think it belongs at all in freeflight. We now have the possibility to
use the RC DT, but it is difficult to control for a organizer if someone
is also controling other things on the plane. My son Oskar was keen to
try to put RC in one F1A to test how it works. After these tests I can
say that I'm not so scared about this problem with RC in freeflight
anymore. An F1A is a really bad RC glider ! OK, a plane that is stalling
can be helped out from a stall, perhaps you can avoid a tree, but I can
not see it happen that someone down wind can sit there with a RC unit
controling an F1A, and fly it into better air. We flew our F1A in low
wind, and from 50 meters there is not much you can do with a radio. In
wind of 3-6 m/s I can not see that you can do anything but disturbing
the glider with RC contact. If you fly in bad air, there is simply not
enough time to do any changes. If you try to make any changes, the plane
is still drifting with the wind. It is different off course with an F1C
that is more heavy....

What I think we need to do in freeflight is instead of changing rules
of the plane, think more of how we fly our contests, and try to make it
more interesting to look at for spectators and media. In this way we can
show our great sport, and get more flyers.To get more flyers we need to
be seen more frequently in media, and the way we fly today is really bad
for showing our sport. We have 7 rounds of just surviving. Anyone
watching can not bee so thrilled with this... The interesting part is
off course the finals, the flyoff. I think we need to go to fewer
"survival" rounds, and consentrate more on how we can make intersting
finals. Fewer mainrounds leaves us with better time to use the day,
avoiding for example high wind. For the finals there are off course many
systems that could work to make it more interesting. I know that in
Finland they tried a new system, flying the finals in groups instead of
one huge flyoff. The system is similar to what they use in combat. What
could we gain from this kind of system ? With fewer mainrounds, it could
be easier to tell media and spectators when this interesting finals
start. The finals could be more interesting to watch, both for
spectators and flyers flying in a differnt flyoff groups. More easy with
timekeeping etc.

I will not go into the system more then this, I think the flyers from
Finland can explaine it better the I can. This is off course not the
only way to go, but one way to perhaps make our sport more interesting
to see.

I'm also not convinced that the changes to cut line to 40 meter, take
avay some rubber weight and cut engine run will help us much. I have
tried both 40 meter and 30 meter line in F1A, and what I can see is that
the level of difficulty increases a lot when you shorten the line. With
40 meter line we will punish the older flyers that are not so fast
anymore, we will also make it a lot more difficult for a newcomer in our
sport. I'm also sure that we will not loose 10 meters of altitude. Less
drag of the line, higher speed, my guess is that we will loose about 5
meters in altitude. This leaves us with launch for example at 72 meters
or 77 meters with 40 meter or 50 meter. If you start at 72 or 77 meter
in a huge thermal in high wind, I can not see that the plane will drift
much less with 72 meter then 77 meter ?

One thought, to make the finals more interesting and easy to follow is
of course to make those changes of line length, less rubber and less
enginerun only for the finals, the flyoffs. It doesnt sound so stange to
think that it could be possible to increase the level of difficulty for
the finals. Also the finals should be flewn when it is less thermal
activity, giving the little lower altitudes more room to shorten our
flights. To use different line lengts, different weight of rubber and so
on, gives off course other problems....

To end this long letter I would like to say, start thinking of how we
can develop our way of flying our contests instead of changing a lot of
rules on our planes. I peronaly think that in the discussion we think to
high about the changing of the rules, that the changes automatically
give us more flyers, more fair contests etc. I think it is other things
we need to consentrate on instead of changing the rules of our planes."

Per Findahl
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No Thermal Detection?
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No Thermal Detection?

I am reading with interest the discussion regarding banning thermal
detection in our sport.

If you fairly define thermal detection as attempting to detect the presence
of a thermal before launching, the impact on Free Flight is devastating.
Consider the following:

On a windy day, thermals are sometimes marked with a decrease in wind
velocity. Launching on a lull, therefore, would constitute thermal detection
and be banned. We could only launch in the breeze.

Any brief rise in temperature felt (but not with a thermometer, as these
would be banned) would constitute thermal detection.

Circle towing, where the model at the end of the line until launched is a
tool to detect pull, or lift would be thermal detection. Straight tow only
boys, and no kiting!

Looking to see other models in lift, or piggybacking would clearly
constitute thermal detection. If the guy on the line launches next to you
and goes up like gangbusters, hold your model until the thermal his model
detected for you is long gone.

Don't even consider launching into an area occupied by a circling hawk. He
found the thermal, you didn't.

Sounds like fun.

[ and no shorts .. because of the extra sensitivity that bare knees gives you ..

etc ..]

So Big bucks is the problem ?
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May l say to Dave Thomas that you are hitting the nail on the head...the fear
of properly modifying the rules is more financial than logical,Everyone seems
to be seeking a solution that will not obsolete their stable of thousands of
dollars!Where would all these guys be if they had to go back to designing and
building their own.l am sure there would be a hugh shuffle in the competitive
world if we ever returned to skill versus cash on hand.As you, l remember the
exciterment of getting the plans and picture volumes to see what was being flown
and other modelers approch instead of today where everyone has a whosky
or whatsky! l would love to be able to compete but my only problem is that
i dont have an unlimited bufget to run back and forth to the west coast and
ten grand to have a small stable of competitive models! So are we a community
of model builders and flyers??? or who can afford to buy their way to the champs.If we
would consider limiting at least some part of the
model to be constructed by the flyer it would be a start even if
it was limited to the flying surfaces and perhaps limit some of the gadjets
and l am sure the performance would become more in line with the flying sites
that exsist. We also use to pick our team by regional competition so that evey
part of the country was represented and believe or not we still managed to win!
We all worry about how the hobby is shrinking but even a JR Flyer has to have
folks with deep pockets or someone in the family who also is in the sport.
We have gone from a hobby which at one time was more based on skill to a
hobby now that the most essential ingrediant is and has become financial.I
If u dont have the money honey you cant play in the game!

[ Editor's comment - the problem in changing the rules is the same, not matter if
you buy or build. If you build, you have invested your most precious resource,
TIME and to have that wasted is worse than wasting money.]

Jr Team Selection Program for SEN
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2007-2008 Jr Team Section Program Letter 0

The 2007-2008 Jr Team Section Program draft is in work and will be submitted to the
Team Selection Committee at their in person meeting in December. When the program
is approved, it will be published in SEN and posted on the NFFs web site and
available from AMA. The program will be largely the same as the last program.
The next Jr world Champs is scheduled to be in Poland in the summer of 2008.
The old 2005-2006 Jr Program is still on the NFFS web site and may be used as
a reference until the new program is released. There is no charge to enter
the Jr program, the dead line to enter is the Saturday before the start of
the FF NATs. There is no lower age limit but the Jr must be able to assemble,
ready for flight and fly their models without adult help. The upper age is the
Jr must be 18 years or younger through out 2008.

The two best scores from the thirty America Cup contests with up to ten additional
contests and the score from the Pre-Nats and the score from the Nats will be used
to determine the team. The America Cup contests will be the same as 2006 and
will start with the January 2007 Southwest Regions in Eloy Arizona and will
conclude with the December 2007 King Orange contest in Palm Bay Florida. The
additional Jr plus contests are yet to be scheduled. They are intended to augment
the thirty America Cup contests for those Jr that may not have easy access to
the America Cup contests but do fly at other contests. It is encouraged that
the Jr parents and clubs with Jr's contact the Jr Team Selection committee
(see email below) and submit their contests to be an Jr Plus contest. The only
requirement is that the Jr events (F1A, F1B and F1P) need to be scheduled and
preferably flown in rounds. All Jr scores from the America Cup and Jr Plus
contests will be scored and reported until after the Pre-Nats and NATs.

Thereafter, only the Jr's that have registered will be scored and published.

The Pre-Nats will be held the Sunday before the FF NATs. This is an exciting Jr
only contests with assigned poles and timers. There is no adult help to the Jr
flyers while they are at the line and flying. The Jr's then fly their event in
the regular scheduled Nats, no special restrictions apply.

If you have kids, grand kid or neighbor kids that have shown some interest in FF,
then track down any of the previous Jr Team families. The Gunders, Secors,
Shailors, Pacellis,Bauers,Simons, Jones or Ferrarios will tell you about their
wonderfully exciting trip to Germany this past summer and the Jr World
Championships that they were part of. They will also tell you that there is
able support for the asking from FF across the country. If flying model airplanes
is not motivation enough , then the education of experiencing another country
and other kids from around the world will from memories that will last a lifetime.

The Jr Team Section kick-off contest, Eloy, Arizona, January 2007 is just
around the corner

Email if you have questions.

USA Jr FF Team Section Committee
Jim Parker This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
George Batiuk
Art Ellis

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Web site of 2007 World Free Flight Championships in working now in the
test mode of operation at
Some data can be changed after CIAM Bureau Meeting in Muncie (USA),
December, 1-2.
You can try to fill Entry Form:
- click "Entry Form" on "home";
- choose "Test" as Country;
- type 1234567 as Password.

We would like to get your advises to make WCh site better.
Simirenko str., 34, Apt. 127,
03134 Kyiv, UKRAINE
e-mail: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Tel: 380-44-402-7932
Mobile: 380-67-751-1663

Roger Morrell