SEN 1056 - 30 Nov 2006

SEN issue 1056 - 30 November 2006

Table of Contents
2006 Southwest FAI Challenge - Booth
Limiting FAI model Performance - GeorgeX
What does the silent Majority think ?
Comment on John Cuthbert's E-mail below
2007 W/C flying site - Cuthbert
King on Mikey
Ordering a Change - EoB

We missed including Bill's article as just an oversight, but also
sometimes we miss because of the ormatting of the article or because
it hidden in the spam. So you can also send it to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
There are some people who i have asked to always sent it to that address
because the mailer on SEN has difficulty with their mail.

2006 Southwest FAI Challenge
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Since I have been coming over to the Southwest FAI Challenge for the last
several years, I can remember many days that the weather and the flying were
so pleasant, it reinforced why free flight can be so enjoyable and helped
make up for some of those days that we would have been smarter staying home
or at least inside. This year was a two day exclamation point. I can't
remember TWO more perfect days. T-shirt temperatures most of the day,
almost dead calm and thick air that made every model look like a world

More than half the field of 15 made it to the F1A flyoff; three of seven in
F1B and both flyers in F1C. After completing 7 rounds, we started pounding
out flyoffs at 15 minute intervals starting at 4:15 with the 7-minute F1C
round getting underway at 5:30. Watching flyoff flights gently come down
against a brilliant sunset is really something to see. Brain Van Nest,
Randy Secor (who almost didn't fly at all) & Mr. Straight-Tow, Peter Brocks
all made the 5-minute round. Brian got the better of the group with a 5:26
to Randy's 4:33 & Peter's 3:47 in the following 7-minute round. Rich
Rohrke, the 2005 F1B winner, cut it just a little too close in the F1B
5-minute round and developed a stall that knocked him down to 4:04. After a
loop looked like it ended his flyoff hopes, George Batiuk was able to squeak
out a three-timer averaged time of 5:00.2 to advance while Bob Piserchio
made 5 minutes easily. Bob's next effort of 6:02 gave him the win over
George at 3:58. Both Matt Gewain and Ed Carroll easily made both 5 and 7
minutes to set up a dawn showdown. If the thermal gods were abusive to the
F1C flyers at the Finals flyoff, this flyoff was their apology. Matt's
elegant folder gently unflapped and Ed's fixed wing 6-panel both treated us
to a beautiful 7-8 minute ballet that all occurred more or less directly
over our heads. For a few minutes, it looked like Ed was going to glide
down on the flight line. Ed touched down at 7:20 about 150 yards from the
launch point with Matt at 8:00 exactly for the win, maybe 100 yards farther.

Saturday did offer a venue for one other event. It is sometimes too easy to
overlook the efforts of Junior World Champion Cody Secor, because sadly he
is often flying F1P by himself, but do not underestimate the consistent
skills of this young man who once again posted a perfect score and racked up
25 well deserved AmCup points. Maybe everyone else is afraid to fly
because Cody is too good?

The Champagne Flyoff, now officially re-named the Cappuccino Flyoff for the
mini events, started promptly at 7:30 and saw Jack Emery put up a formidable
3:47 in F1G and Victor Stamov post a superior 3:56 in F1H. Not to be
outdone by the larger gas birds, Tony Robertson and his ultralite F1J spun
off a great 7:44. We advertised the Cappuccino flights as a possible
tie-breaker, should weather or performance prevent us from completing
the mini-events in two normal flyoff rounds.

As a perfect conclusion to a perfect weekend however, we were rewarded
conditions that were good enough for 13 of the total 16 mini-event flyers to
earn flyoff berths, but not so good that we couldn't resolve the meet in the
allotted two rounds. In F1G, only Jack Emery & John Clapp cleared the 3:00
threshold with 4 other flyers missing by no more than 21 seconds. Peter
Brocks was third, down just 5 seconds. Jack backed up his morning flyoff
flight with another impressive 3:46 to top John who came in at 2:40. In
F1H, Brian Van Nest again snagged the blue glassware with a flight of 2:42,
followed by Jim Parker at 2:28 and Norm Smith at 2:01. Victor Stamov showed
us his new F1H aerobatic maneuvers as he performed spectacular loop after
loop, as he struggled and ultimately failed to get his model off the line.
Tony Robertson who flew uncontested in F1J, posted a perfect "600" for
the win in F1J

This year also saw the addition of a new event that shows some promise, F1Q.
Unlike the flying anchors that were electric free flight models of the
recent past, superior batteries and brushless motors have transformed the
whole concept of electric free flight. Just seeing what a few pioneers,
like world class tinkerer John Oldenkamp have done in a few months, makes
you wonder where this event will be in a few years. No lines, no rubber, no
fuel & batteries....just walk to the line push button & go! OK, it isn't
quite that easy, but it is intriguing. John's Cappuccino Flyoff flight was
2:20. He also took home top honors in the scheduled event as well with
a perfect score over Bob Beecroft's 9:27.

Jon Zeisloft, who organized, managed and basically kept this meet alive by
himself for several years, was rewarded with a two second victory in P-30
over John Oldenkamp at 5:28 vs. 5:26 !

We are always happy & grateful to see everyone who makes the trip to the
lakebed each year because we realize it is a little farther drive than
normal for most, an even longer drive for the Smith's, Rohrke's & Tony
Robertson and a really, really drive for Pierre Brun. John Clapp & Andrew
Barron from the east coast and of course Victor Stamov and Vasily Bezchasny
from the other side of the world are always special guests. We also
got to opportunity to wish Don Zink a happy 70th birthday on Saturday!

Thanks once again to Bob Beecroft & Harry Steinmetz for their help in
organizing and running this event. Make some room for us on your calendar
next year, especially you power guys. There are valuable AmCup points at
stake....and there are a few more choices for hotels, restaurants &
entertainment in the Las Vegas area. First thing in the morning, the Las
Vegas Strip & the lakebed are only 35 minutes apart. Tentative dates
are October 27 & 28, 2007, two weeks after The Sierra Cup.

I do have an amusing story to pass along. The Piserchios, the Clapps,
George Batiuk, Bob Beecroft & myself enjoyed a wonderful italian dinner at a
restaurant called Mateo's in Boulder City, just a few doors down from Evan's
that has been a popular dining spot for modelers in the past. It was
reasonably priced, had a very nice atmosphere, nice staff and is located
inside the historic Boulder Dam Hotel, which is still an operating hotel.
Some of us grabbed brochures, thinking about our accommodations for next
year. My wife and I returned to Las Vegas for a few days vacation the
following week and as we were getting settled in the hotel, I was telling
her what a nice meal we had at Mateo's and describing the old west colonial
type architecture. About this time, the TV in the hotel room is replaying
an old History Channel episode on the haunted buildings of Nevada. Guess
what pops up on the screen? The Boulder Dam Hotel, complete with sign for
Mateo's!! Seems the historian that works in the basement of the hotel has a
regular visitor ! The good news is that he is a friendly and passive

F1A (15 Entries)

Brian Van Nest 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 326 1916
Randy Secor 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 273 1863
Peter Brocks 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 227 1817
Mike McKeever 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 274 1564
Andrew Barron 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 273 1563
Victor Stamov 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 237 1527
Pierre Brun 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 18 1508
Lee Hines 210 180 180 180 180 180 180 187 1477
Jim Parker 210 180 180 180 113 180 180 1223
Don Zink 191 180 180 180 180 162 137 1210
Ken Bauer 210 180 180 180 180 092 180 1202
R. Limberger 210 180 180 180 180 180 060 1170
Vasily Bezchasny136 180 180 180 180 180 128 1164
Norm Smith 210 180 089 150 180 180 180 1169
Ed Carroll 202 180 180 136 180 000 000 0878

F1B (7 Entries)

Bob Piserchio 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 362 1982
George Batiuk 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 238 1858
Rich Rohrke 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 244 1564
John Clapp 199 180 180 180 180 180 180 1279
Richard Wood 240 180 180 069 180 180 180 1209
Jack Emery 240 180 180 180 180 076 119 1155
Bill Booth 003 000 000 000 000 000 000 0003

F1C (2 Entries)

Matt Gewain 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 420 480 2520
Ed Carroll 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 300 420 440 2480

F1P (1 Entry)

Cody Secor 240 180 180 180 180 180 180 1320

F1G (11 Entries)

Jack Emery 120 120 120 120 120 180 226 1006
John Clapp 120 120 120 120 120 180 160 0940
Peter Brocks 120 120 120 120 120 175 0775
Mark Belfield 120 120 120 120 120 172 0772
Bill Booth 120 120 120 120 120 169 0769
Alan Petersen 120 120 120 120 120 159 0759
Rich Rohrke 120 120 120 120 120 087 0687
George Batiuk 120 120 120 120 120 0600
Richard Wood 120 120 120 067 120 0547
Larry Bagalini 120 120 053 120 120 0533
Jon Zeisloft 098 120 000 000 000 0218

F1H (4 Entries)

Brian Van Nest 120 120 120 120 120 162 0762
Jim Parker 120 120 120 120 120 148 0748
Norm Smith 120 120 120 120 120 121 0721
Victor Stamov 120 120 120 120 120 000 0600

F1J (2 Entries)
Tony Robertson 120 120 120 120 120 0600
Ed Carroll DNF 0000

F1Q (2 Entries)

John Oldenkamp 120 120 120 120 120 0600
Bob Beecroft 120 116 118 093 120 0567

P-30 (2 Entries)

Jon Zeisloft 100 120 108 0328
John Oldenkamp 087 119 120 0326

Cappucino Flyoff (Mini Events Dawn Flyoff)

F1G Jack Emery 227
F1H Victor Stamov 236
F1J Tony Robertson 464
F1Q John Oldenkamp 140

Limiting FAI model Performance
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.


If we continue to keep limiting F1 performance in the interest of being able
to fly in smaller and smaller fields, we will soon end up flying models that
have to be classed as flying toys, not free flight models for international

What does the silent Majority think ?

If you read what 2 very active sportsmen said - Blake Jensen and Per findahl
they don't think cutting back the models is the answer. Then the words of two senior
statesmen, George Xenakis, just above and the sentence from John O'Donnell's
word - "people fly thee models because they like them".

Listening to others they are very discouraged by the talk of change, to
compete at the top level takes a big effort and people make a variety of
sacrifices- Thet think it just won't be worth it and it will be time
to go and do something else, maybe make that scale model, maybe fly
some SAM stuff, maybe just go fishing..

People are concerned that "they" - ie. the free flight sub commitee of the
CIAM and te various aeroclubs have some thing going on. For example
Ian Kaynes mentioned a sub commitee proposal about changing the F1J
engine run. Should we see these ? It may not be appropriate to see the
workings of the subcomitee in coming to a proposal, but when it's
done should it be published ? It gives the impression, maybe false
that this run by a secret cabal rather than being representaive of the
sportsmen who make competition free flight.

Comment on John Cuthbert's E-mail below

The next article is an article by John Cutherbert that is very critical
of the odessa site as used in the Euro Chanps and World cup events and
will be used in the World Champs next year.

Firstly I'm glad to hear that Mathew has recoverd from his broken arm
without any apparant lasting consequences. In addition what John did
not say, which makes the accident even more unfortunate is that
the "sportsman" who caused the line tangle should have not even been
there because he was not even flying in the contest and because
he did not get out of the way started a chain of events that caused
Mathew to fall.

While the site is rough ground in places, there is growth in
others [and it was not cut back on the alternative start line
at the World Cup Contest] and there are dirt roads, it's really no
different than other sites that are on miltary training grounds. You
could write the same article about the Sailsbury Plain site used
for the Stonehenge Cup.

In addition after the contest I understand the jury met with
the organizer discussed things that needed to be changed before
the World Champs. Again my understanding is that the organizer
agreed and has made arrangements to get extra help to do those

But John is entitled to his opinion and I am very reluctant
not to publish something because it takes a position
contrary to mine. For this reason I have included John's
article. However seeing that most additional input would be
subjective [ Mathew's broken arm certain was not !] I
do not believe that continuing this discussion would be

2007 W/C flying site
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Hi Roger,
In the last SCAT news issue Victor Stamov asked for advice
in how to make the 2007 W/C site better. As I was at this years E/C in
Odessa I can possibly offer some suggestions. Three things should be
done as a matter of urgency as they are an absolute necessity.
1: Fill
in all the many deep holes and craters that litter the whole site.
Reason: the site is extremely dangerous for flying, retrieving and
driving on. At least 4 people sustained serious injury during the Euro
Champs, including my son Matthew who broke his right arm at the start of
the World Cup event when falling down one of these unseen craters.
Result was no participation in Euro Champs for UK but more worrying was
the threat to his Professional Golfing career that the broken arm
presented. Thankfully he has made a good recovery.
2: Cut down the head high vegetation that covers most of
the site otherwise there will be more accidents and the possible loss of
some of the down wind retrieval crews. I shudder to think what the
consequences of someone falling ill in this "jungle" Finding them and
getting the emergency services to them does not bear thinking about.
3: Build an infrastructure of usable roads around and
across the site. the xisting ones are extremely inadequate and few and
far between. And should it rain, almost impossible to remove cars from.
Sounds like a huge task for one person to take on! More a job
for an Army. Oh! fortunately there is one based on the site, but can
anyone get them to do the work. I for one will not be holding my breath
which is why both Matthew and myself will not be in Odessa in 2007.

While I am putting my finger to the keyboard I might as well
put my four penny worth into the new rules debate. The real problem is
not one of sophisticated high tech models and too much performance. It
is one of flying the contest in high winds and large thermal conditions.
If you reduced us all to flying 30 cm span chuck gliders (sorry, hand
launch gliders) in these conditions then the same skills we all possess
in trimming and thermal picking will cause even these models to go a
long way and out fly the flying field. And what a strain on the
timekeeper. Sorry boys, no matter what you do to the specifications or
tinker with the rules you will not solve the problem that flying in high
winds and large thermals create. So, if that is the problem then the
OR ARE GREATLY REDUCED. i.e. early mornings and later evenings. Which is
why we have extended flights and flyoffs at this time of day. Done
correctly you may only need one flyoff to resolve the contest. It may
mean less rounds, but this is where the rule tinkering can be done. DO
NOT change the model specs or the way we fly them, or I predict the end
of International Free Flight in a very short time. To our rule makers I
say this: think long and hard before you come to your decision. Our
future and that of FAI flying is in your hands.

Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to you all.............JOHN CUTHBERT

King on Mikey
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I would like to say I think Mike Achterberg's comments on proposed rule
changes are spot on. Let's as he says try to tackle the problem of long
distance flight by other means than messing about once aain with the model specs.
After all any model in a thermal will go a long way in wind, whatever weight
or shape it is.
Peter King

Ordering a Change
From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

1st Sea lord Biggles,

I am honoured to view a response to my text from such an esteemed member of
the food-ordering community. (A little history lesson for some; Biggles
was on the UK team in 1977 in Denmark. Out of the blue in the final
order-off he asked for heated cheese crackers with rodent, the famous
Hot Ritz and Hot Rats manoeuvre - brilliant ! It was such a tragedy that
an almost fatal accident a few years later should reduce him to ordering
just the vegetarian option nowadays).

Our UK team has been chosen for 2007 using our usual format of best 2
from 3 events with 7 rounds per event. In past years up to 14 rounds per
day have been run which drains even the hardiest orderer. I managed to
win the trails this year with a full score over the first two events (a
total of 14 orders with no dropped points !) but it was a lucky year.
I have been suffering with a lack of facilities in Berwickshire and
envy those who live near The Midlands and the wide choice of
establishments they have. For example, if I want to practice beer
ordering there is no point in going to my local, The Thistle Inn at
Westruther. If I am stupid enough to ask simply for "a pint", a filled
glass will appear without question as they only sell 'Heavy'.
Similarly there are few ordering options for Haggis and Neaps in
this locality under fear of death by a sword. So the expense of
going south is a major consideration and practice times for me are limited.

At the same time the technologies used in catering has developed to
extreme proportions. There are 85 different ways to add dressing to a
salad including pouring, drizzling, flooding, swamping and tsunami to
name but a few. The added complexity of technology catering is stifling
competition for other than those ‘professionals’ who are able to
practice all day. OK, so Denny's don't perform to the CIAM
(Crackers in a Minute) gold standard but I see fewer people reaching
the order-offs these days. Isn't that what the contest should be all
about; a 10 minute slot where you have to order extra long courses
without error ? It is wrong to do this in the heat of the day when
the kitchen smells can affect the competitors. CDs
(catering directors) should plan such conclusions to high
level events close to ‘chucking-out’ time in my view.

I think the proposed rule changes are well founded and the addition
of the Burgos Trophy will encourage participation worldwide. I for
one am looking forward to a training visit to Lost Hills in
February. Will the 8-layer pancake with extra anchovies still
be on the field menu ?

Comments to Dr. B. Spar :-

Experience has shown that Denny's react positively to the
international guest. My advice is to develop a Gallic or
Antipodean accent and the waitresses come flocking.

Comment to Judge SCAT :-

Since being involved on the UK FFTC (Fast Food and Tuck Committee)
Mike Woodhouse have been doing less ordering and more directing.
I hope his time will come again.

The Very EoB