SEN 875 - 27 May 2004

SCAT Electronic news 27 May 2004 issue 875

Table of Contents
Wawayanda this weekend - Barron
Jnr Buy Tech - Jahnke
Sezimovo Usti 2004 - Van Wallene
Jr. flyers - Shirley
Young People in freeflight - Hinson
Junior FAI Team - Augustus
More Junior Stuff..Jorbiecki
BFMA FF Forum - Stalick
Declining ..... Coleman
Found a Pole

Wawayanda this weekend
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Dear Free Flight Fliers,

A number of you are coming to our contest this weekend.

If you have not made accomodations, I note that some like
the Days Inn (845-374-2411) and some the Super 8 (845-692-5828),
though you might find those full. The Middletown Motel
(845-342-2535) has informed me that they have a number of
rooms available. For more details see below, as I have updated
much of the hotel information.

The Middletown Motel also provide certificates for breakfast
at Johny D's (on route 211, one mile southwest of HW 17). It is
open 24 hours, for those of you who like an early breakfast and
don't want to wait for the fast food places to open, and they
have told me they will honor the certificate earlier in the
morning than it shows.

Sunrise is at about 5:30am and sunset about 8:20pm.
The event start times are shown below.

Many Thermals!
Andrew Barron
America's Cup and National Cup
FAI, AMA, Nostalgia, FAC, SAM

May 29-30, 2004

Barron Field, Dean Ford Fields, and Shuback Fields
Wawayanda, New York

Mini-FAI Saturday Morning. Maxi-FAI starts Saturday evening.

Saturday May 29:

Mini-FAI events: 2 minute max
F1G (rubber), F1H (glider), F1J/P (power, 7 sec motor run).
Round 1: 8:30-10:00am
Round 2: 9:30-11:00am
Round 3: 10:30-12:00
Round 4: 11:30- 1:00pm
Round 5: 12:30- 2:00pm
Flyoffs: 2:20pm --
Awards at end of rounds for events complete at that time.

Big-FAI events: F1A (glider), F1B (wakefield), F1C (power).
Saturday Evening:
Round 1: 4:30-6:00pm Max TBA
Round 2: 5:30-7:00pm Max TBA
Round 3: 6:30-8:00pm Super max (weather permitting)
Sunday Morning May 30:
Round 4: 7:00- 8:30am Super max
Round 5: 8:00- 9:30am 180 sec max
Round 6: 9:00-10:30am 180 sec max
Round 7: 10:00-11:30am Max TBA
Round 8: 11:00-12:30pm
Round 9: 12:00-1:30pm
Round 10: 1:00-2:30pm

FAI directors: Aram Schlosberg, Andrew Barron.

FAI fliers enter at Skyscraper table with Dave Acton.
Turn in scores between each flight at
the box in the Barron Field Golf-Cart.

Saturday May 29: 8am--4pm. [Awards at 4pm.]
Hand Launch Glider, ABC Classic, ABC Nostalgia, Mulvihill,
Nostalgia Rubber & Nostalgia Wakefield (combined).

Early Sunday: 6:45am-7:15am
Dawn Unlimited.

Sunday May 30: 8am to 3:30pm. [Awards at 3:30pm.]
Catapult Glider, 1/2 A Classic, 1/2 A Nostalgia,
P-30 Rubber. Pee-Wee 30 Power.

Overall Skyscraper Contest Director: Dave Acton (914-948-4234)
89 N. Broadway, White Plains, NY 10603.

Open fliers pay $25 ($10 field use fee, plus $15 entry which
covers unlimited number of AMA, NOS, and FAI events).
Juniors and Seniors pay $15 total
($7.50 field use plus $7.50 entry).

One plaque per contestant that has a sufficiently
high finish in at least one event.
Labeled plates which adhere to the plaques are awarded
for each finish in the top three in an event,
and to best finishing Junior or Senior in each event flown.

Bryton Barron perpetual trophy to best junior performance
in AMA or FAI with model of own construction.
Art Phillips Perpetual Trophy for Dawn Unlimited.

Special Casano Event Sunday May 30 (hosted by Krin Laffler,
Bill Buss, and others). For any model designed by Al Casano.
Special commemorative trophy.
FAC EVENTS (hosted by the Glastonbury Modelers):

Saturday, May 29 (8am-4pm)
Shell Speed Dash
Greve & Thompson Mass Launch
Erol Race
World War I mass launch
FAC Scale and Jumbo Scale, Combined
Old Time Towline Scale (30 in span, unlimited towline length)

Sunday, May 30 (8am-3:30pm)
World War II Mass Launch
Fantasy or Fictional Fliers Mass Launch
Dime Scale
OT Gas Replica
Peanut Scale
Modern & Golden Age Pavilion, Combined
Flying Horde

FAC Event Director: Ed Pelatowski (203) 735-9494.
Register with Ed, complete the Event Participation List
provided by Dave Acton, showing AMA membership, and
pay $10.00 for field use fee.
Certificates and applause to winners.
SAM EVENTS (hosted and directed by Mal MacLean 631-499-7917):

Saturday Only, May 29 (9am-4pm)
ABC Pylon, ABC Cabin, Old-Time Rubber, 020 Replica
16 second Motor Run, 120 second max.

Register events with Mal MacLean, complete an Event
Participation List provided by Dave Acton, show
AMA membership, and pay $10.00 for field use fee.
Certificates and applause to winners.


The field is on Orange County Route 12, in Wawayanda, six miles
south of Route 17M near Middletown, NY. Nearby airports include
Newburg, NY (30 min from field) or White Plains, NY; Hartford, CT;
LaGuardia, NY; Albany, NY; Newark, NJ; or Wilks-Barre-Scranton, PA
(all of which are less than 2 hours from the field).

MOTORIZED VEHICHLES: Cars on farm roads, motorcycles on Dean
Ford Grass and at edge of each commercial strip of Barron Field sod
(within 3 or 4 feet of ditch, if ground is firm enough).
No motorized vehicles on the foot bridges. No motorized vehicles
in the corn fields and no motorized vehicles on the Lois Ford
fields and paths to the southwest.

Golf carts are permitted anywhere on commercial sod or
farm roads or grass areas, but not on foot bridges.

On Mapquest website, check Gardnersville and Pine Island, NY.
Field is open space between those two points.

[Note that Gardnersville, New Hampton, Ridgebury Hill, Slate Hill,
and Denton, are names of parts of the Township of Wawayanda.]

*From New York city, take I-87 to Highway 17 to exit 123 (labeled
Middletown), west on 17M for 3.5 miles, to Orange County Route 12
(at the New Hampton, Town of Wawayanda sign), then turn left,
heading south 6.3 miles. After Gardnersville Road, the Barron and
Ford fields are on the left at the Grain Silo.
[This takes about one hour from the Tappan Zee bridge.]

*From New England and from upper New York, take I-84 to exit 3,
Rt. 17M, go east 1.5 miles, then south (right) on County. Rt. 12
for 6.3 miles. Field is on the left. [About thirty minutes from

*From Western New York take Route 17 to I-84, south 3 miles to
exit 3, Route 17M, go east 1.5 miles, then south on County. Rt. 12
for 6.3 miles. Field is on the left.

*From Pennsylvania and points south, take I-84 to exit 2, turn left
off the ramp and then go one mile to the northeast on Route 6, turn
right at the sign pointing toward Pine Island (onto County Route 1),
go six miles east on County Route 1 (through Westtown), then veer
left at the sign for New Hampton onto County Route 12. Go one mile
north on County Route 12. The field is on the right at the Grain
Check the following web site for other relevant matters.

In approximate order of distance from field:

Days Inn on 17M in Middletown, exit 3, east, off I-84.
Price $70-80. Good quality. Closest to the field.

Global Budget Inn of America on 17M, also exit 3 off I-84.
Price approximately $70. Credit card does not guarantee room
with late arrival.

Super 8 at exit 120 off Highway 17 (exit 4, west, off I-84).
Price $70-80.

Middletown Motel on Rt. 211, exit 120 off HWY 17 (exit 4W, I-84).
Price approximately $78.

Howard Johnsons, Rt. 211, exit 120 off HWY 17 (exit 4W, I-84).
Price $80-90.

Chateau Hathorn, where Rt. 1A ends at Rt. 94, Warwick.
About 10 miles east of field
(drive through Pine Island on Rt. 1A and continue to Warwick).
Price $115 inc. tax, Jacusi in each room.
Fancy Bed and Breakfast. Same price but nicer than Holiday or

Holiday Inn at exit 4, east, off I-84, exit 122 off Highway 17.
Price $110-125.

Hampton Inn at exit 4, east, off I-84, exit 122 off Highway 17.
Price $115-126.

Courtyard Marriot at exit 4, east, off I-84, exit 122 off HW 17.
Price $139.

Super 8, exit 5 off I-84. 13 miles northeast of Middletown.

Several Hotels at exit 6 off I-84, Route 17K.
18 miles northeast of Middeltown. Including:
Clarion, Howard Johnson, Courtyard Marriot, Days Inn,
Comfort Inn.

There are also several Hotels at exit 1 off I-84 to the
southwest (Port Jervis) about 30 minutes from the field.

Jnr Buy Tech
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In regard to Mark Bennet's Buy-tech comments I would like to point to
several more significant hurdles these teens will face as they come of age:
1. College / college costs; 2. post graduate employment; 3. marriage; 4.
children; 5. mortgage; 6. auto loans; 7. Travel to ever distant free flight
sites; 8. rubber, Monteal stop front ends, engines, timers, towhooks, radio
tracker, and other things which even Luddites buy.
The cost of purchasing a manufactured FAI class model versus building one of
comperable performance is probably $100 -$500, a small fraction of one
months mortgage payment, car payment, or student loan. And if you compare
the cost of free flight to serious competition in more mainstream sports
like biking, running, golf, tennis, etc. the cost of equipment, materials,
fees and travel are comperable. The real questions are: 1. Will the 21st
century culture permit them the time to participate at all? 2. Will free
flight be an attractive active sport when these teens are adults?

We all need to look outside our very small world to see where we fit into
the larger culture and what is really causing problems for our sport. In
comparison to outside forces the BOM rule is insignificant, but at least we
can change it.

Reminding you of the forest...
Ross Jahnke

Sezimovo Usti 2004
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Hi Roger,

on special request from the Leeper, i hereby send a report:

Sezimovo Usti 2004-05-21:

The car was equipped with all our gear, food and the latest in
navigation gimmicks. Next to the on board navigation (with mapping up to
the Czech border) there was also the old faithful laptop with a compact
flash GPS receiver antenna (same as for the pocket PC) to lead us
through the 'back country'. I also copied and pasted a couple of maps I
got from a Czech internet site, and calibrated it for the GPS model
retrieval in case things got bad.

When crossing the Dutch German border it started raining, which got
progressively worse along the way. Temperature plummeted to below 9
degrees C.!!! A bit less, and it would be just as 'warm' as on the ice
in Norway 2 months ago. But this low temperature record was to be broken
later on..

The amount of water on the roads made the average speed collapse, but
without any traffic jams we made good progress and managed to arrive at
17.00 hours at the contest check in. We quickly registered with the
contest organisation and proceeded to settle down in the hotel 'Relax'.
The cold front hadn't arrived yet, so we enjoyed the mild weather with
temperatures over 20 degrees. In Tabor we headed straight for our
favourite restaurant, but unfortunately it was closed for renovation.
During our search for an alternative the cold front, which had been
chasing us during our trip, was catching up on us, and after the dinner
it was in fact raining.

The next day it was overcast with a bit of wind and 7 degrees!

At the field the starting line was positioned so the models would land
in the nearby village and a few competitors decided not to fly. Thermals
were very weak and difficult to locate, so watching other models was the
safe way to pick the right air.

It was amazing to see how well the starting line was chosen, as almost
all models with a max landed dead centre in the village. I was lucky to
land in a piece of grass some 50 meters behind a house, but many landed
on houses, on the road or in trees, telephone and power lines.

In the following 3 rounds we enjoyed some sunny spells but thermals
remained tricky. At the 5th round wind increased to some 7 m/s, but
there was hardly any turbulence so towing was easy. My model was a bit
slow on DT, and after having picked a massive thermal it landed in Tabor
some 3 km away, again in a nice patch of grass behind the deserted
military barracks. I used the Pocket PC / GPS system all day and it was
a joy to pick up the model right on the on-screen 'blue line'. The last
round we had to fly a 'super max' of 4 minutes. I landed some 2 km away
and when driving down there was a model lying in the middle of the road.
I stopped, switched on the emergency blinkers and picked up the model.
It was Anselmo's, so I called him on my mobile to tell him how lucky he

Ivo Kreetz missed the good air and landed close by in round 5. But when
retrieving it, the model was gone. He decided to stop flying and search
for the model. A random drive through Tabor did not give any results but
things got a bit more exciting later.

Only 6 made it to the FO in glider and 5 in F1B. Start of the FO was
scheduled for 17.00, but was postponed several times for no apparent
reason. At 17.30 5 flyers were ready to go but once again, the FO was
not started. Now it was very clear why they were stretching the time,
because a Czech flyer wasn't there yet. He arrived, walking to the
organiser and they chatted a bit. Then he walked towards 'the pits' to
prepare his model. Now it was very clear to all the other flyers what
was going down and we started to shout loudly 'time, time' pointing at
our watches. At first they tried to ignore, but soon after the commotion
started gaining momentum, they just had to shoot up the flare to start
the FO. Oh, and by the way, they also reduced the working time from 10
to 5 minutes. As usual, this was announced to some but not all flyers.
Once more another violation of FAI rules, on which these organisers
appear to have a patent. It is truly amazing that with a yearly turnover
of over 4.000 euro they didn't find the budget to buy a megaphone yet.

It was still quite windy, and I went up with half a tow line length to
be able to position myself downwind. Maarten did the very same. Soon I
felt a thermal, and did 2 high circles. Then disaster struck. The
towline was wrapped around my wrist, and the high tow line tension
prevented me from getting it undone. The model was still pulling like
crazy, and only after the thermal eased off a bit I could release my
arm. Then, one more circle to launch. Good height and perfect transition
but I was too late. The model tried desperately to catch up with the
thermal, but sinking fast in the process to do a disappointing 142
seconds. Later I heard Fuss maxed on that air to win the competition.
Maarten couldn't catch the lift either, as he was too far to the side
and did about 2 minutes. Upwind one other flyer also found nice air and
only Fuss did the 5 minutes. I ended 4th and Maarten 5th.

In F1B the working time was 5 minutes as well, after the motors were all
conveniently wound to the limit (no explosions) the flyers proceeded to
the line, with a few seconds in excess of 3 minutes left. After a short
moment Silz saw something on his machine and launched, quickly followed
by 3 others, so 4 out of the 5 flyers went up together. Anselmo was
still checking the situation on his thermistor and decided to wait just
a bit longer (1 minute) to launch in what quickly appeared to be the
best air and win the competition.

Meanwhile, Ivo was still driving around the area trying to pick up a
signal from whoever had taken his model. And miraculously, in a small
town some kilometres west of Vsechov, he actually did. Soon they managed
to pinpoint an isolated house where the model was supposed to be hidden.
Here a thriller was about to unravel.

They rang the doorbell and although the family car was standing next to
the house and there were some signs of activity, no one opened. After
insisting a bit more, a woman opened the door. She didn't speak one word
of foreign language and she was not very cooperative and closed the

Soon Ivo and his father Ron rounded up some other dutch flyers to help.
I was sitting in a restaurant in Sezimovo Usti with some dutch friends.
Maarten, who also joined the scene gave us regular updates by cell

The only way to get things moving now was to get one of the organisers
Mr. Rostislav Kvasnicka, which spoke perfect English and could make
things more clear to the locals. And so it was arranged. But the woman
was even more reluctant and uncooperative. When they were explained that
the police would be called it came to a stand off. Ivo offered them
money to get the model out in the open, but even this didn't persuade
her. So the police was rounded up. When awaiting the arrival of the
local law enforcers, Ivo found his fuselage outside the house on the
ground. Apparently it was chucked out a window and stripped from beacon
antenna and address labels! No sign of wings or stab. When the police
arrived, they all went into the house to do an initial search, but
without a search warrant nothing much could be done and no signs of the
flying surfaces could be found. The house was inhabited by 3 people,
father, mother and their 14 year old son who by accident also owned some
kind of free flight glider. When Mr. Kvasnicka wanted to have a look
into the fireplace, the house owner refused this so there was at least
some suspicion the remains in the fireplace could reveal some evidence.

Once outside, Ron had a brilliant idea. Maybe there was some evidence in
the car? After all, the model was disassembled to get it in there for
transportation. So they went with the police to the car, and there they
found finally the evidence: rubber bands and the beacon antenna! Now the
police had more to go on, and they rounded up more police: technical
detectives fully equipped with flashlights and an array of photo cameras
and other forensic tooling! They were very serious and of the type 'not
to bump into on a dark nigh' as Ivo put it. So back they all went, into
the house and straight for the fireplace. There the forensic evidence of
a small shred of carbon fibre D-box was found. The house was steaming
hot inside, caused by the fireplace which apparently had been lit up
pretty strong in order to try to burn the carbon fibre which of course
wouldn't budge! Outside the house a pile of ashes comprising the remains
of the spars, D-box and wing joiner tubes were found. Guilty as
charged!! The father finally pleaded guilty, he took the model for his
son he later stated. The mother had to go to hospital because trying to
destroy the evidence, she had burned her hands. The father offered Ivo
his computer as compensation: 'no way' Ivo replied. The police
documented all evidence by bagging and numbering every single piece as
well as taking pictures of Ivo next to his model box. After this, Ron
and Ivo joined the police to the station to press charges and get all
the paperwork done. This lasted till after 3 am.

The rest would be dealt with by written communication and Ivo charged
the guy with 1000 Euro worth of damages. For local standards a pretty
high burden on the family budget. What a sad story. This family now
having a criminal record and the black sheep of the neighbourhood.

The dutch flyers and Ivo in particular would hereby like once more to
thank Mr. Kvasnicka for helping in this affair.

The next morning we packed and, it started snowing!!!! See the images,
they speak for themselves. Weather was totally crazy, we hit 0 degree
(C!!) on our way back. Must be an all time low record for end of May!

(images were enclosed in the original PDF file, but for SCAT
publication have been removed)

Jr. flyers
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I was wondering if anyone thought you could compete at the junior world
champs with a gollywock, starduster or handlaunch glider? no I didn't
think so. the fact is the junior team is a group of kids that have
excelled in their chosen event. and those events aren't easy to excel
at. some of those juniors regularly place at the larger contests around
the country.
another thing to consider is that having a son or daughter share a hobby
with you is very gratifying whether it is modeling, fishing, sports or
whatever and Mark if you haven't experienced that with your own kids if
you have any, then you truly are missing the way have you priced
high tech little league gear lately.that stuff is just as fancy and
expensive as our models.and the kids don't have to make and use wood
bats just to prove they can.
most parents that are getting their kids involved probably aren't doing
it to promote free flight but are enjoying time with there children.
sorry but it is true.
I recently showed a young son of a friend some of my models and in that
group oddly enough was a gollywock and a starduster.and he was not
really interested until I handed him a f1j fuselage. and then his eyes
lit up and he said this looks pretty cool. so you may see me working
with a youngster teaching him to fly some of my models and yes I may
even get him to build one. but it will probably look more like a fai
model than an ama model. the other problem not brought up in all of this
is that if I wanted to teach this youngster to fly and compete with some
of my models he would have to fly fai since he cant compete in any ama
classes with my models.b.o.m. rule and all. and I figured the starduster
is a compettitive f1j.
so the question is do we teach them to build antiquated models so they
can have the same frustration that some of us may have endured. and hope
they learn to love it before they destroy their creation. or teach them
to fly and learn to trim, then teach them to build. I think the latter
will work better.and that is why there are more kids flying fai classes
than ama classes. its not that hard to envision the end of ama classes
long before the end of fai classes.and I will blame the b.o.m.rule more
than any thing.
Ben Cousins says it all in his closing statement every time he signs off
he doesn't say BUILD CRASH LEARN. these kids aren't us.and thats
probably a good thing. hopefully some of them will be the next builders
of their generation. but they probably wont build gollywocks and
teach them to fly, teach them to trim, teach them to build.
use your own models if neccesary.
Dave Shirley jr.

Young People in freeflight
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I read all of the comments that have been expressed lately in scat about
our young people not being able to build or repair their models, or
there not being any young people entering or sport. Frankly most of you
disgust me. The NFFS education director sent out questionairs to over 56
F/F clubs asking for assistance with the NFFS education program. THERE
WERE NO RESPONSES. One of our fine indoor flyers sent a larger inquirey
to clubs asking for mentors for the science olympaid programs.
NOT ONE RESPONSE. The some science olympiad organizations are
considering dropping model flying since young people with F/F flyers as
mentors just kill the competition. Young people from areas where there
are no modelers flounder.

When was the last time you asked to help with any program that initiates
young people into our sport? When was the last time you asked what you
could do for free flight, rather than ask what freeflight could do for
you. As I have said in the digest, we don't have a junior problem, we
have an adult problem.

If you want this sport to be around in 20 years, you better devote some
time to it now. It is somewhat like investing. If you don't invest now,
you wnt have anything to spend in the future. If you all just spent one
hour a week with a youngster, it would make a difference. Don't forget,
someone spent time with you in the beginning.

Rex Hinson
President, NFFS

Junior FAI Team
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Reading the voluminous dialog concerning Juniors, I am prompted to ask what is
wrong with parents buying sporting equipment for their children? Does anyone
have any idea what it costs to equip a high school daughter (or two)
for the Snow
board and Hockey teams, then pay for a mountain or rink pass, travel to distant
competition venues, lodging, food medical bills, etc. So what if there
is little chance she will continue to compete in college and thereafter,
and why does it matter? It's the present experience that counts, not the
likelihood of creating a Zaic-style lifetime activity.

No one criticizes me for for supporting snowboarding or hockey, and I suspect
the cost exceeds aeromodeling. Why should the nature of the sport make
any difference? Isn't our concern for the development of the child? Aren't
there skills, qualities and values to be learned from such activity
that far outweigh the specific skills involved in the sport? You know,
like teamwork, sportsmanship, mental toughness, ability to take coaching,
learn to know your opponent, accept
disappointment gracefully, keep your agreements and tell the truth.
To name just a few.

I think the parent's job is to expose his kids to as many experiences as
possible - almost all of which she could never afford on her allowance or
baby sitting fees. To provide kids with model airplanes and support
equipment (or any sporting gear), spend countless hours travelling, training
and encouraging them, an d take them to Europe to participate, or even
observe, a world championship event - Man, that's what dads are for.

We are all well advised to heed the words of Rocco Ferrario in the last
issue of SEN. Few men have contributed more to the development of children
in both science and model aviation. Nor is Rocco preaching from some
ivory tower; he is daily in the trenches. He knows whereof he speaks.

Bruce Augustus

More Junior Stuff..
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Here we go again!

The Junior World Championship is, in my mind, the Indianapolis 500 of junior
model aircraft flying. This is the showcase of the best junior "fliers" in
the world. Now that we are going to our second WC, I guess we can have some
opinion of what this competition is actually about. It is the best models
and the best flyers competing against the best.

I am somewhat opinionated towards the power side, so that is what we shall
discuss. The technology that is incorporated in these model is quite high
and thus, the ability to construct such a model of this caliber is quite
high. Look at the F1J models that the Open flyers are flying in the US. I
would have to say th at 90% are "bought" models. Minimally, the wings and
stab are constructed by someone else. The tooling and materials on these
models place their construction above many open modellers. Not all modellers
have a mill and lathe available to build the many small parts needed but
we don't look down on the Open competitors when they purchase these
parts. (So happens that I do have many of the machines needed, but still am
in awe of the parts that are available from our friends overseas!)

My son and I have constructed three F1P models with all carbon construction. It
is not the easiest thing in the world to build there things. Time consuming and can, at times, be frustrating. But It can be done. Would I expect John to be
able to build these things by himself? No. But, I know that John can build,
as he has his world famous flamed Galaxy and a Starduster 600 that he built,
along with many HLG and Catapult models.

Look at the F1C models that have been flying in both national and international
competition. I am willing to bet that the majority are factory airplanes. There
are those that build their own, but that number is decreasing as the complexity
increases. Again, not impossible, but it is easier to spend the money and get
the components then spend thousands to tool up.

The Junior WC is a small competition as compared to all the weekly and monthly
events held throughout the world. There are plenty of events that juniors can
fly in with their own constructed models. Use these as the events to show
off the juniors' building skills. But allow the best models and best flyers
to compete at the WC. We will do our best in France as will the rest of
the team.

I would be remise in not mentioning our mentor and friend, Austin Gunder, in
this discussion. Austin is a modeller that could do most (if not all) of
the work on his own model. I have watched he and John in the middle of the
field, trimming their own models. They won't even allow us parents close by
sometimes when they are testing. Both of them (especially Austin) have a very
good idea of wha t changes to make and have proven to do a very good
job in getting the job done.

So, a long discussion, but again, look at the WC as a special event and not the
common day to day contest. It is the best of the best and thus has special rules
and considerations that the normal flyer may look down on. The kids that are
flying and trying for the team love what they are doing and probably would not
want it any other way.

Thanks again for the time...

BTW Mr. Parker, folders ARE allowed in F1P (no gears or exhaust extentions-damn
, I like pipes!!)- Just looked it up in the rules...Sori Jim!!

John Lorbiecki

Declining .....
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In case you haven't noticed opinions are like the area upon which we sit and
all are different.
We've had many different approaches to what we FFers see as a decline in
interest in the hobby we love.
Sadly folks there is and has been a decline in interest in Aero Modeling
especially FF. We now have to
compete for the minds and interests of the young.
In my own experience over the last four decades: I've built small rubber
powered models(15"/38mm
built up wing, stick fuselage and sheet tail feathers) to take to Company
picnics(Douglas, McDonnell-Douglas, Boeing)
where the young followed me while I flew the models like I was the Pied
Piper. The kids were interested,
but when they returned with their parents the outcome was .... "Where can
we buy one of those?" My answer was,
"You can't one, but I'll supply the plans and materials then show you how to
build and fly the model." Here's the kicker,
out of the hundreds of offers I made to the kids, who were game, and their
parents, I had zero takers. I offered
the passenger seat in my vehicle to my own children, grand children, nieces
and nephews, where only some minimal
interest was shown. I've offered power models to juniors so they could
compete and have had zero takers.
For those of you who haven't noticed, we FFers have competition for the time
of the young.
Mr. Bennett and myself were raised in the 1930's thru 1950's when flying was
a big deal. My dad and my uncle
took me along to the flying fields( Thompson Trophy fields). I was excited
about flying and didn't have
computers and the other fields of instant gratification being brought to my
attention by the media. So building
and flying models was an easy thing to, do with some direction.
Where do the rules of today say you must first build a Starduster or P-30
before you can compete in any
FF event AMA,FAI, Nostalgia or Old-timer? If this were the requirement we
wouldn't have a Junior team.
Where in the logic of passing time do the rules say that we must start all
over at square one, ignoring all
that our forefathers have learned and experienced?
I believe the Science Olympiad will be effective, but don't expect a big
interest in outdoor FF. The true
area of growth in modeling is being dictated by the size and availability of
the flying field. That's why RC
and Park Flyers are the growth areas today.
At a time when the junior team is about to embark on it's quest for a World
Championship, encouragement
not question or descent would be what I would expect and offer.
If anyone has an idea that will work to cause growth amongst our youth,
"bust a move". You need to put up
more than words .... lead by example.
My sincerest best wishes to the USA Junior Team!!!
Roger Coleman

Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject : Re: SCAT electronic News 25 May 2004 issue 874

Dear Readers of SEN:
I wanted you to know that NFFS Publications Services now has in stock a dozen
copies of the 2004 BFMA Free Flight Forums edited by Martin Dilly and Mike
Evatt. This 116 page book is the British equivalent of the NFFS Symposium. It
contains 16 articles of note, including a 14 pager on discus launched gliders,

construction of CF props, constructing an incidence jig, and others of note.
The cost of this book is $25 plus $4.00 postage in the USA. I also have a
limited selection of earlier issues of the BFMA Free Flight Forums at $10 each.

I can send one other book from the NFFS Publications stock in the same package

for no extra postal fees. See NFFS website for details or
contact me via email at
Bob Stalick, NFFS Publications Services
PO Box 1775
Albany, OR 97321

Found a Pole

A termal pole was found at Lost Hills after the SCAT Annual -
see Don Leath this weekend at Lost Hills


Roger Morrell