SEN 781- Feb 26 2003
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News and Reports 2003
SCAT Electronic News 26 February 2003 issue 781
Table of Contents
=================
No conspiracy
F1A meets TSA - Abad
F1P and Jr Support. - Parker
Whoops only 81 - Cole
LRH on stab sections >:) - SweepetteLee
Super Sport - Schroedter
Separation - Ditto
Re: SEN Junior Program - Gregorie
A Junior's Response to the Junior Problem - Lorbiecki
Cuban in Spain
hlg question - Kev
What's new about F1P? - Salzer
Flying High in F1A! - Secor * 2
Fwd: Seeking volunteer
No Conspiracy
=============
We have receievd many more itens that we have had time to include.
The rest will be done real soon now or when ever I get around
to it - it is just time not the thought police ! I did get a couple
of Notices for the BFT and San Valeers contest - they needed
work ro get them out so they will also be real soon...
and no I do not have the full MM results for those who were asking...
F1A meets TSA
=============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject : Re: SCAT Electronic News 4 February 2003 issue 777
> About your concern on traveling on the airlines with our models, I can tell m
y
> experience on my flights to California for the MaxMen contest.
I flew IBERIA Madrid to Chicago and American Airlines to Los Angeles round trip
In Spain checking in model box was no problem, it was latter screened with
x-rays. On arrival to Chicago, after immigration and customs I had to pass a
security check with TSA before bags could continue to LAX. They opened all my
luggage, in my presence. Took all my models out of the box and checked it with
Explosive Trace Detection equipment. I was not allowed to help them in any way
and warn me not to touch anything and stand away. Even not to help them tape the
model close again. O my return trip same inspection at Los Angeles while
checking at the ticket counter.
I was lucky no model was damaged by their inexpert hands on model airplanes.
My advise is to have ready duck tape while you travel, keep your luggage
unlocked! as they will break it open and arrive with plenty of time, it took for
me more than 90 minutes.
To learn more about their procedures, visit:
http://129.33.119.130/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_0598.xml
Good luck on your airline flights,
Javier
F1P and Jr Support.
==================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Status on the Jr F1P Development Program:
The program was published on SEN, Jan 22'03 Issue 22745 and is posted on the
NFFs web site http://freeflight.org/. Inquiries and applications for the
Astrostar 404 kits are starting to come in and two kits have been awarded.
There has been no inquires or applications for the Cyclon Engine to date.
The Astrostar 404 kit is well under way and it looks like the mid-April
completion date will be meet. Craig Cusick did an outstanding job drafting
the plans and along with Terry Thorkildsen (the designer) worked out the wood
sizes and other details. Bob VanNest is currently working on getting the
ribs laser cut from Bob Holum. The current plan is to get 22 sets of ribs, 10
for the Jr kits and 12 extra for non-Jrs. These extra rib sets will be sold
for $20 a set (includes the diagonal ribs) to help offset the cost of the Jr
kits. Tom Laird is helping Bob in getting balsa for the rest of the
kit-looks like he'll be spending some time in Hawaiian Gardens at Superior
Balsa. These should be quality kits- sorry these kits are not available for
non-Jrs.
Hank Nystrom has offered a special Jr F1P Texas Timer special (again, Jrs
only). He has offered up to six (6) timers (any mix) to the Jr F1P
Development Program. The first package deal is for a 3F- I (five minute DT)
or 3F-III (three minute DT) timer with an installation kit and special
winding tool and instructions for $25.00 each, plus $5 for Priority Parcel
shipping. This is a $58 retail. The real DT capability is up to a minute (or
more) over my conservative specs. The advantage of the III is a real fast
turning clock for more accurate time settings. These timers are suited for
the multifunction, high performance F1Ps.
The second package includes the MAX IA or MAX IIIA, an Install Kit and bag of
Split Rings, and three (3) feet of my super fuel line. Retail of $46.25 for
$21.00 plus $5 Shipping (Priority Parcel). The III and I designators mean
the same thing, DT 5 min or 3 min respectively. This timer is perfect for the
Astrostar 404.
This special offer is only for Jrs that submit the Jr F1P Development Program
Registration forms to me and then send me an email requesting this timer
special. I'll then notify Hank that you have qualified for this special.
First requests first served. You will then contact Hank directly to order the
timer of choice and pay him (checks only for this deal).
Also, see Hanks' excellent web site http://www.texastimers.com/ for details
of the these timers , installation and care tips and his other products.
Jim O'Reilly and Jim Bradley have combined to produce a F1P design. The Jim's
have gotten feed back from several power flyers. They now ready to do some
building. Contact Jim O directly if interested, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Gil Morris has also made his Pop-Up F1P design available to interested Jr's.
Contact him for full size plans This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
I am currently seeking up to another $500 of donations. I'd like to be able
to provide up to 10 moderate performance / cost engine to those Jr's that
complete the Astrostar kit or similar type F1P. The Florida Model
Associations (FMA) is currently considering the partially funding of this
effort. Any other clubs? Also, I'd love to get an offer from one or more of
the engine manufacturers or distributors like Hank's discount offer for
timers. Any taker's? (Doug Galbreath has already help out with the original
Cyclon offer).
As for as the handling of the funds, I am not taking money at this time.
Rather, as the Jr's are awarded these incentives, I will contact the
appropriate Clubs and individuals that have committed funds to have them
send money to where it is needed.
At the MaxMen this weekend, Oldenkamp flew his F1P. See his brief write-up in
a resent SEN. Also, Vasily of Ukraine had a factory built F1P with the entire
bell and whistles. I don't know if he had any takers. As a reminder, a
factory built model does not qualify for the free Cyclon engine award. The Jr
and his family / mentor must build a significant amount of the model as
described in the Jr F1P Program.
With all this said and done, the most important ingredient to the success of
this Jr Program are those experienced modelers willing to help the younger
modeler. Tom Kerr along with Joe Wagner are helping a young interested
modeler get going with an F1P. Cody Secor is lucky in that his dad is an
experienced AMA power flyer, Cody has been awarded an Astrostar kit.
Likewise, Deangelo Kusik's dad (Jed) is an experience F2B modeler, Jed has
also been awarded the Astrostar kit. The young modeler's are out there.
Look at the =BD A events. Talk to the young modelers and their parents. Let
them know about the Jr Team and Jr F1P program. Spread the word.
Thermals, Jim Parker
Whoops only 81
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Thanks for the mention in Max Flash, but actually I am only 81. I felt
lucky to do so well against the worlds best. My luck carried over in the
banquet as I was at the first table to be served. I owe the table choice to
John Pratt. I think he picked it because it was the closest one to the bar.
This will go down in history as one of the best contests ever. Not only
were the regular rounds perfectly managed but the flyoffs had timers on the
spot and were finished expeditiously. The only problem was that those F1J
guys are just too good.
Thanks for a great contest.
Hank Cole
LRH on stab sections >:)
=========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Ok John,
I rcvd your stab query and am glad to answer, for whatever my opinion is
worth! [Hence the smiley face in subject]
BTW, Rene L was at the MaxMen comp, and I recall someone asked him for
Spectra line. I don't know if he had any, but do know his job has kept him
hopping and incommunicado recently.
If I were you, I would search online for kite and fishing supply websites.
Try Jann's Netcraft. They have the 200# fluor. red Dacron I use 9 meters
of at the launch end, and I think they may have 150# Spectra too.
I might suggest you ask Jim Parker [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] where he gets his line.
I think he uses Spectra, but it is a greenish color, so not sure what the
material is. He won tho!
Now to the stab stuff...
I do like the AL33 stab section for small stab bunters, and no, I don't
think there is any significant drag increase.
Case in point, M&K use u/c stab airfoils, and perform great.
The history of my bunter stab airfoil changes starts with my first one: a
Stamov bunter I bought[piece meal] in 1993, after the WCh.
It had the Wobbeking ['W' for this note]Stab section, flew well and
did 270sec regularly on 'no lift' flights.
But there was a problem: if bunt was not PERFECTLY TIMED there would be
two or three looonggg radius stalls, which ate up altitude, losing a minute
or so of time.
I reasoned that the nearly symmetrical 'W' stab section was not a match
with highly cambered wings during the decreasing speed bunt phase, and that
a
lightly u/c stab section would keep lifting at the low speed, high angle
of attack present then.
In addition, I recalled using u/c stabs on zoomers in the '70s. They were
very bouncy in thermals and felt that would especially help the small-stab
bunters ride lift responsively. Conversely, that was bad for the zoom
launch,
which would be loopy and gain little height. I changed to the RSG-29
airfoil[some upsweep, similar to Clark Y]which controlled the nose-up giving
good zooms then.
I built a 4.0sq dm stab to try the AL33 stab section, and it seemed to do
what was expected: control the bunt phase by bringing the tail up more
strongly and with more forgiveness in general. We[Don Zink, Vasi and I]
have continued to use the AL33 Stab section for Big AL, Li'l AL and Buntero
designs for that reason.
Certainly the 'W' stab section works well on a good number of bunter F1As,
so I doubt there is any worry about its drag factor. Stabs in general
represent only a small % of total drag, as you know.
You are correct about the flatbottom stabs on Buntbones[and Baby ALs, too].
It is the same as Ike used and is quite powerful since it is larger,
at 67 sq in. than our other designs.
I should add, that we generally find adding a stab turbulator[.15mm at 7%]
helps the stab get 'over the top' during bunts on most bunters, large or
small.
I find it does not affect the glide, just helps the bunt, since that is the
only time the stab is at a high angle of attack.
I can only surmise that the success of F1As with the 'W' stab[Stamov's
in particular]is due to carefully matching the wing airfoil, CG location
and the rest of the design parameters. I do not profess to knowing the why.
I hope I answered your queries; don't hesitate to ask if you need to.
Ciao,
Lee
Super Sport
===========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger:
A while back we all anguished over the demise of Tan II rubber. I can
truthfully say that our fears and tears were premature.
I had John Clapp air mail me a box of the Super Sport, and except for
the first rounds, I flew it in both the Isaacson and the Max Men. I can
clearly say that I could perceive no lesser performance than what I have
been getting with the last (July) batch of Tan II. No quality of rubber
would have prevented my dropping a round in each of these contests due
to picking bad air. I also think that had I used it for the Super Max, I
might have made it.
So cheer up rubber flyers! The situation now is just fine.
George Schroedter
Separation
==========
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Roger:
At the Max Men contest it became very clear that the F1B flyers and the
F1C flyers should not be positioned on the flight line next to each
other. There was a considerable period Saturday with little or no wind.
The wakefields were drifting over the F1C line. I know that at least 2
F1Cs collided with F1Bs. John Pratts best model was severely damaged,and
I personally had 2 near misses. I am in no way putting any blame on the
power guys. I just am suggesting that from now on the positions should
be F1B, F1A and F1C.
I know that some CDs have positioned the power flyers a good distance
from the others. In addition to reducing (not eliminating) the
possibility of collisions, this is a lot easier on our ears.
George Schroedter
Re: SEN Junior Program
======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Reply to Biggles and This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.:
> * Your insightful and perceptive analysis of my FAI Junior Program
> concept, helped me clarify my own thoughts on the matter. You are
> quite correct in identifying the two goals as being "an international
> program for attracting juniors" and "the concept of the Junior World
> (and European) Champs". After further consideration I realize that
> combining these two goals is exactly what I am proposing.
>
Fair enough. In that case, I'd suggest that the target model class
should be HLG or CLG, because:
* they can be flown in playgrounds and park flier fields.
* are simple enough to be built and flown by rank beginners
* are cheap to build and easy to store
* can be developed into models suitable for competition
* kitting these models is easy
I think such a class could be grafted onto to something like the SO
program, but it that is considered we must be very careful indeed not
to have and negative impact on the existing program.
There may be a case for introducing both HLG and CLG despite the
class proliferation: HLG should appeal to the athletes while CLG
levels the field by eliminating the physical strength aspect of HLG.
Chuck Marcos' 'Easy Mini' would be a good starting point for entry-
level CLG because its easy to make and trim and flies surprisingly
well.
> Each country goes through an intense program to select its team and
> hopefully provide kids that have the true champion spirit. We need to
> recognize that not all will be equal. They can't be. This isn't
> supposed to be like the NASCAR class where everyone is given the same
> car, same engine, same everything. It is a technology based class,
> with the higher performance models and better flyers having an
> advantage. We still need to showcase the best, both in skill and
> equipment. And the WC is the stage.
>
Very well put indeed.
CLG/HLG is the only area of outdoor FF in which the technology aspect
is more or less self limiting, which is why I suggested it above.
Can you see the HLG team replacing the cheerleaders during half time
at the college ball game or competing as a track event?
A Junior's Response to the Junior Problem
=========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
This is a letter that John Lorbiecki Jr (member of the 2002 Junior F1J
Team) wrote in response to the junior situation:
Ever since the world champs when the US would have taken first overall
if we had one more junior Power flyer, there has been alot of talk about
why juniors don't fly F1J. I have read many e-mails and ideas that
people have of why this could be. I have also read about the many ideas
we could do to change the class so that it is more appealing.
Personally I think that the F1J class is perfect the way it is. Nothing
is wrong with it. The planes are the perfect size for the junior,
engines small enough to handle easily yet powerful enough to have the
30,000 rpm excitment that an FAI Power event should have.
Don't change a class that is open to everyone. I can fly anything from
my 1/2A Galaxy to an Acterberg Odysessy. No limit on fuel, size, or
functions made the class great. Changing it to something like F1P is not
what we need to get more juniors to fly. All it is doing is getting rid
of two junior flyers you have already, making all their new F1J models
they have worked on so hard junk. F1P takes away all the fun of no
restrictions. I don't know who thought of it, but taking away bunt and
shortening the wing span is not going to get more juniors to fly.
Now the hard part. How do you get more Juniors to fly? Well, this is a
tricky one, one that there is no real answer to, just many good
suggestions. I started flying power because my dad taught me how to do
it with all his old power models. I would never have been able to do it
without his previous knowledge and his willingness to help me learn to
build the plane, start the engine, set the timer, launch the plane, and
trim it. Of course we needed old planes that wouldn't have been a big
deal if they got destroyed.
What I am trying to say is Juniors need some instruction of how to get
started and have encouragement. They need someone to show them how to
fly Power and planes to get used to it. I know that the interest is
there. I know that there are kids that really want to learn how to fly
power. They, like everyone else, just need that push to get started.
They need someone willing to give up some old 1/2A's and show them the
ways of power. Once they fly, they will be hooked, making their own
models and progressing from 1/2A to A to F1J. It is really the only way
that I see the sport growing. If we can get people to show kids the ways
of the sport, we will get more flyers.
Thank you....
Well, you all asked what would get more juniors in the sport and the
above letter is from one of their own!!
John & John Lorbiecki
Cuban in Spain
==============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Dear SEN Readers:
I received the following email yesterday. I thought some of you might
remember this fellow and would like to respond.
Thanks,
Bob Stalick
Dear President:
My name is Manuel Blanco, I was member of the F1C Cuban team since 1971 to
1986, now I=E2=80=99m living in Barcelona (Spain), maybe some American freef=
light
members, at that time, remember my wife, who was member of the Cuban f1c tea=
m
(Marina Idarmis Martinez).
My best friend who live in Boca raton (FLORIDA). Vicente Lanz, was talking wit
h, Bob Gutai about us. I will like to contact with him, please send me, if
you know the mail of Bob Gutai and other F1C American freeflight, who want to
talk with my wife and me, and remember the old times, and the new too.
My mail is: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
or my wife mail :This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
or the last contact mail (of my soon): This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
hlg question
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I heard from the FFTC here in the UK today that clg is on at the NATS in May
on sat - hlg is Sunday.
I desperately want people to fly clg at the nats and get more interested in
the class over here. It has been a very slow starter despite its popularity
in the USA. I want the class to flourish -therefore, whats the best way of
pushing it even more - get it in peoples heads that clgs do not need
Hercules arms, just the ability to pull back a loop of rubber and enjoy the
class?
I love the newsletter that I do on hlgs and clgs, however - how do I get
more interest here in the UK in CLGS?
Ideas would be appreciated and heres to a big turn out at the NATS.
Kevin
What's new about F1P?
=====================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Reading the discussion about F1P I started thinking about the times
long gone - 35 years ago - and the plane I was flying at that time! My
design was called "Lori MS" and followed the then valid German MS
rules, i.e. F1A specifications with a 1cc engine on 15s run (sounds
familiar?).
Lori (not really a typical plane) had 1.4m wingspan, a wing area of
25.8 dm² with a huge stab of 8.2 dm² to come to the necessary total
wing area. Power was the Schlosser 1BB diesel engine. I think, I even
used auto rudder ... One was built with a flat bottomed hand-drawn
airfoil, a second one with the Goldberg 610b.
Look it up in Model Airplane News, May 1968 (in words: nineteen sixty
eight), page 9!
Both maxed easily ... on the MS weight of 410g minimum (both came in
at about 450g actual weight).
I drool thinking about their performance with a Cyclon and on the F1P
weight limit ...
Anybody wants a 1/10th drawing, contact me (MAN did reduce it quite a
bit, I need my spectacles to recognize it).
Klaus W. Salzer
Flying High in F1A!
===================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Thanks to Brian & Janna Van Ness,Al & Judy Hotard, Jim Parker, Roger
Morrell, Jon Davis & Steve Spence for supporting Tyler Secor in getting
started in F1A. Tyler got his first flying lesson in F1A at the Winter
Classic and the following weekend competed in his first contest the Max Men
14 rounder. He had a very sucessful outing, he only dropped two of the 14
rounds, he made both super maxes! Tyler is hooked he wants to compete for a
spot on the junior team.....
Thanks again
Tyler & Randy Secor
Fwd: Seeking volunteer
======================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Return-Path:
From: "Adam L"
Subject: Seeking volunteer
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:16:11 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hello!
I go to LaSalle Academy in Providence R.I., and I, along with a few other
students, are competing in the Wright Stuff event in Science Olympiad on
April 5, 2003. We are looking for a volunteer who is able to give (or
e-mail) us some advice, tips, or plans on general building and flying of our
model plane.
Thanks,
Adam Lesnikowski
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
.............
Roger Morrell
