SEN 687 - 30 Mar 2002
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SCAT Electronic News 30 March 2002 issue 687
Table of Contents
=================
F1J motors for sale - Simpson
Effect of Rubber Temp. - King
F1P class proposal - Kaynes
von Hafe Cup 2002 - Portugal - Gustavo
Ritz Continental - Salzer
F1G Flag ??? - Hines
CUFFMAC Schedule and National Cup Schedule - Mattes
Trail 90 for Parts - Rozelle
CUFFMAC Sched on NFFS site! - Hines
CIAM Clarification - Tracy
CIAM, F1P and F1H - Tracy again
F1P - Lorbiecki and Lorbiecki
Potassium Nitrate for D/T fuse treatment - Bashaw
Stuffed MAC - Blackam
cuffmac_calander_2002.pdf - Terzian
KOTUKU CUP RESULTS
Omarama Cup
Trans Tasman Rose Bowl.
F1J motors for sale
===================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I have two Galbreath MP Jet .061 F1J motors for sale. Excellent running
motors.
One motor comes with a Galbreath aluminum mount to fit Oliver 1.125" F1J
fuselage tube - $125
Second motor without a mount - $100.
Both for $200.
Contact Reid Simpson at - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Effect of Rubber Temp. (Peter King)
===================================
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It was interesting to see the problems associated with the 30gm motors when
flying in low temperatures at the Scandinavian Comp. I ran some cases in
the simulation program and the effect was not that marked, using the normal
conversion factors for effect of temp. Could it be there is more than that
involved with the 30gm motors, such as difficulties in trimming to the best
climb particularly at low temperatures?
Here are the results from the simulation, just to open debate. I do not
claim they are highly accurate and there may well be a better conversion
factor, as we have little info on temp effects on the latest rubber batches.
Especially since heaters were banned.
Temp (deg C) Max Ht (m) Flight time
30 104.1 372
20 101.4 364
0 96.4 348
I am not suggesting that the idea of reducing the 1st round max in F1B is not
an excelent idea, I think it has a lot of merit, especially in such low temp.
comps.
Peter King
F1P class proposal
==================
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Roger
In SEN 686 you raised the question about how F1P was considered at the CIAM
meeting without having been on the agenda.
The idea was raised as a Bureau proposal put forward by the President Sandy
Pimenoff, following his known views about the dire state of FAI power
classes. The particular concern was the low entry in F1J Junior
Championships which were getting so low that the event could loose
Championship recognition.
The Bureau are exempt from the November 15 submission of items for the
Plenary meeting agenda (which applies to National Aero Clubs and CIAM
Subcommittees only). In this case, the Bureau tasked the FF Technical
meeting with drawing up the proposal for a new junior class. I only
accepted this as a valid task when I put it into a form which did not
impact any existing class - that is by adding it as a new class and not
modifying the existing F1J which would have been out of order without
visibility on the agenda.
The urgent need for action was recognised by the Plenary meeting and their
voting on the proposal was emphatic support. I am sure that a better class
specification could have been developed if we had talked about it for a
year and having on the agenda in the usual way. However, that would have
been another year lost and we now have a foundation for the new class. If
necessary changes become apparent, then they can be submitted for
discussion next year. By a querk of CIAM history F1J and now F1P are
classes which are considered exempt from the 4 year rule
freeze.
I hope this helps to clarify the background of how the class came out of
nowhere!
Regards
Ian
von Hafe Cup 2002 - Portugal
============================
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Dear SCAT-Could you kindly publish the information below?
Dear friends
Be informed please that 2002 von Hafe Cup, in Portugal, will be in Beja
and not in =C9vora, like in 2001 and like was previously announced.
The fact is that crops, in =C9vora field, will not be harvested in time=
for the contest.
By another hand, Beja is well known and available
So please, drive to Beja to join us for the 2002 von Hafe Cup.
Sincerely yours
Jorge Gustavo
Ritz Continental
================
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Hello Lee,
I found a 3-view of Gerry Ritz's '59 world champ in the 59-61 Zaic yearbook
(p.163), where it gives a reference to the March 1960 issue of Model
Airplane News for details.
I do not own that issue, but could send you a fax (do you have one? number?)
or try to scan, but scan quality maybe too low for you.
Regards
Klaus
F1G Flag ???
============
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WOW, the powers that be must really want to cut the performance of the
Coupe event!
Hanging a 2.5 sq cm flag on them should REALLY
do the job! A real air brake for the poor little birds.
My sympathies to the F1G crowd.
(Sorry Dan, I could not resist the joke value
of your obvious typo!)
Lee
CUFFMAC Schedule and National Cup Schedule
==========================================
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CUFFMAC and National Cup
FYI the CUFFMAC schedule is available on the NFFS web site.
As a plug, the National Cup (NC) schedule is also available which
includes all of the contests with AMA/NFFS National Cup events including
the CUFFMAC contests. Also included on the NC Schedule are the
National Cup contests for the rest of the USA. NC events to be held at
the contest, CD contact information, location, and dates are part of the
schedule. If you use this schedule I would suggest that you contact the
CD to confirm the events listed if you are traveling far.
An NC schedule revision will be released about once a month or until all
contests for 2002 are included. If you are holding a NC contest or know
of such a contest and that contest or events are not confirmed on the
schedule please let me know. If you don't like to download files drop
me an e-mail and I will e-mail you the latest version.
The NFFS site also has a summary of the current standings in all of the
NC categories, forms for coordinating the contest and reporting results,
and the NC rules for 2002.
Bob Mattes
National Cup Administrator
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Trail 90 for Parts
===================
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I have a Honda Trail 90, purchased in the mid-80s,
from Billy Chenault. It is not in running condition,
having spent more than a decade under my deck.
covered with a tarp. But it would make a good source
of parts for someone.
I am not interested in making shipping
arrangements, so if you are interested you need to
come to Atlanta and pick it up. $100, first come.
Walt Rozelle
CUFFMAC Sched on NFFS site!
===========================
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Hi Faust,
You will find that Joe Mekina(keep up the great work Joe!) has put the
CUFFMAC comp schedule on the NFFS
website, freeflight.org, then click on left side, 2002 Contest Info.
Walla, A veritable compendium of helpful stuff appears, including what
you queried SEN about!
Salivate, plan & Enjoy!
He even updated it today(3/17/2002).
Lee
CIAM Clarification
==================
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Roger,
Considering the fact that F1J has a very low participation at Junior
World and Continental championships, it became necessary to find
something else. The CIAM Bureau urged the Free Flight Subcommittee
Chairman to prepare a proposal for a new class. This new class has been
prepared by the FF S/C as F1P, got approval at the FF Technical meeting,
and was then submitted for the approval of the Plenary Meeting, as a
Bureau proposal.
As a "provisional class", necessary improvements to it may be done each
year if necessary.
This is the process and some distinction to remember:
- Proposals are submitted by each Courtry's National Aero Club (NAC)
and/or specific CIAM Sub Committee(s) before the 15 Nov to the Plenary
and appear on the Agenda for the March CIAM meeting.
- Proposals can be submitted any time by the Bureau and so don't appear
on the Agenda before the meeting.
- The decisions are always taken by the vote of the Delegates at the
Plenary Meeting. Never by the Bureau.
I would like to point out an error of terminology that I made in my
report. I used the phrase "Bureau approval". It is incorrect. I should
have said Plenary approval. The Bureau has no power: only the
"Delegates" of the different NACs have the decision power. The Bureau
has only the power to submit proposals which are not in the Agenda. The
votes of the Technical meeting are only "recommendations" to the Plenary
meeting. The Plenary Meeting is where proposals are accepted or
rejected. It is where the world votes.
Daniel
CIAM, F1P and F1H
=================
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Roger,
To help establish a particular fact I would like to restate that the new
provisional class, F1P is to have a minimum wing area of 26 sq dm. This
is a large wing and represents an effort to keep the climb speed
moderate and thus control of the airplane accessible to new flyers.
There is no inclusion of the horizontal tail area in the specification.
This is a purposeful departure from the method applied in the open
classes.
I would also like to apologize for my oversight in the description of
the application of the 2.5 sq dm pennant rule adjustment. I incorrectly
stated that the rule applied to classes F1A and F1G - which is absurd.
The rule's application is for classes F1A and F1H. Thanks for your
patience.
Daniel
[Dan on the F1H/G - our good SCAT scribe Mr Hines already
commented on that - However if you note some of the other
contributors there is a school of thought that expects the
absurd from the CIAM ! 8-)
As an observer and commentator on CIAM politics , I note that
in 2000 the proposals that came from the FFSC were published
in advance of the event on the FAI web site .. and in fact
Ernesto Businelli of SCAT extracted them for us and they were
included in SEN. It would have looked better to both the
eternally suspicious and active interested parties - John and John below
in the latter category -
if this had been published before hand on the web site. - in FFN or
even if FFSC members have given and inkling to interested
parties in their countries.]
F1P???
======
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Well, I guess they just made junk outta a lot of stuff for the juniors!
Not really, as there will now be more models available for the open
flyers, but still it will hurt the present F1J junior flyers. 403 sq
inches at 250 grams still means that carbon will be "in". To hit the
lower weight limit at the vastly increased wing area will mean very
light wings. Will this make the airplane weaker? Average cord would need
to be 6.72". Also, why not ban folding props if they are trying to get
rid of cost and complexity? No nitro? Every model that we presently have
(including John's killer Galaxy) is soon to be illegal. At least we can
keep the timers and engines (oh yeah, some rubber bands too!!).
I guess my thoughts on this is what stopped juniors from flying a Mini
Pearl or Maverick in the class? Probably it ws the parents saying that
they HAD to have the tricked up carbon aluminum kevlar models. Think
that Austin Gunder proved in the years past that the Maverick type model
could fly. Dave Rounsaville has done pretty well with his simple locked
up Mini Pearl. If the FAI committee wanted to do something for the kids,
why not specify no composite materials, keep the wing area and span
requirements and up the weight? Wouldn't this possibly do what they
wanted? his may make a model that the average kid could build, at less
cost.
Finally, why wasn't there any communication in the FAI group about this
(or did I just miss something)? Possibly other, more worthwhile
suggestions could have been made. Those of us that do fly the event
could have had some input on the proposal. It may not have made any
difference but at least we would feel good!
So, since this is the new rules, I guess that we need to start looking
at new models. It should be interesting to see what takes place, but
still we are not real happy!
John and John Lorbiecki
Potassium Nitrate for D/T fuse treatment
========================================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I have been searching for a small supply of saltpeter for treating D/T
punk and cannot find any supplier. I'm sure this has been outlawed
because of terrorist activity. Can anyone direct me? Marv Bashaw,
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Stuffed MAC
============
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
>
>FAI documents come as zipped up PDF documents.
>
>So to download the document you will need WIN ZIP, available from
>http://www.winzip.com/
Unless you are a Mac user. In which case you will use Stuffit Expander to
unzip the files followed by Acrobat reader to view them. Of course if
you're a Mac user you already have Stuffit Expander since it's installed
with the OS... (what, Windows doesn't install an unzipping utility??
;->>>).
cuffmac_calander_2002.pdf
=========================
Author : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
In case you were not aware of it, this is available on the NFFS web site (as
well as other contest schedules.
Fred T.
KOTUKU CUP RESULTS
==================
F1A - No Super max
1. Brian Van Nest (USA) 180+180+180+180+180+180+180+300+420+251 2231
2. BillMcGarvey (NZ) 180+180+180+180+180+180+180+300+420+210 2190
3. Phil Mitchell (Aust) 180+180+180+180+180+180+180+300+396 1956
4. VinMorgan (Aust) 180+180+180+180+180+180+180+300+350 910
5. Rob Wallace (NZ) 180+146+180+180+180+180+180 1226
6. Victor Stamov (Ukr) 112+180+180+180+180+180+180 1192
7. AntonyKoerbin (NZ) 180+ 92+180+180+180+180+180 1172
8. Terry Tank (NZ) 180+127+180+180+180+180+49 1076
9. Chris Murphy (NZ)107+180+180+180+180+146+ 52 1025
10. Craig King (NZ) 180+ 16 +180+180+180+ 95+180 1016
11. John Harte (NZ) 78+180+180+180+0+180+ 70 868
12. Stew Cox (NZ) 180+ 72 +180+180 612
13. Moira Vincent (NZ) 12 + 0 +121+ 86+180+ 68+ 42 509
F1BA - Super max
1. Andrei Khrebtov (Rus)180+180+180+180+180+180+180+120 1380
2. Brian Van Nest (USA) 180+180+180+180+180+180+180+13 1273
3. John Malkin (NZ)180+180+180+180+179+180+180 1259
4. AlexandrChelepov (Rus) 180+180+180+180+170+180+180 1250
5. Igor Vivchar (Ukr)180+180+180+180+180+117+180 1197
6. Leigh Morgan (Aus) 180+180+180+180+ 79+180+180 1159
7. David Ackery (NZ) 180+180+180+180+153+180+65 1118
8. Alan McDonald (NZ)170+180+180+135+138+ 87+180 1070
9. AdrianBryant (Aus) 180+180+180+ 56+180+145+124 1045
10. Roger Morrell (USA) 180+142+139+180+180+104+99 1024
11. Lincoln Vincent (NZ) 102+123+ 0+128+180 533
12. Stu Cox (NZ) 180+180+ 86 446
13.Antony Koerbin (NZ) 180+ 16 196
HLG
1. CraigKing (NZ) 60+58+50+33+34+11 246
2. Phil Smith (NZ)39+54+19+40+55+20 237
3. Chris Murphy (NZ) 60+25+34+33+28+40 220
4. RobWallace(NZ) 26+19+16+23+11+35 130
5. Stew Cox (NZ) 12+19+23 54
OpenCombined
1. Paul Squires (NZ) 180 180
2. Lynn Rodway (NZ) 32 32
MiniCombined
1. Victor Stamov (UKR)120+120+120+120 480
2. Chris Murphy (NZ) 120+26 146
3. MoiraVincent (NZ) 120 120
4. Dave Ackery (NZ) 80 80
OMARAMA CUP RESULTS
===================
F1A - Super max
1. Phil Mitchell (AUS) 180+174+180+180+180 = 894
2. Rob Wallace(NZ) 166+180+170+180+180 = 876
3. JohnHarte (NZ) 180+148+180+118+180 = 806
4. Vin Morgan (AUS)180+ 63+180+180+180= 783
5. Bill McGarvey (NZ) 60+180+180+180+180 = 780
6. Stew Cox (NZ) 180+173+ 65+180+180 = 778
7. Antony Koerbin (NZ)180+106+180+180+127 = 773
8. Nik Nikolov (AUS) 142+180+180+129+121 = 752
9. Victor Stamov (UKR) 110+138+120+180+180 = 728
10. Brian Van Nest (USA) 143+180+180+0+180 = 683
11.Craig King (NZ) 70+ 98+ 80+ 180+180 = 608
12. Terry Tank (NZ) 38+120+180+ 50+ 0 = 388
13. Moira Vincent (NZ) 0+ 64=64
F1B - super max
1. Andrei Khrebtov (RUS) 300+180+180+180+180+180+180+403 =1783
2. Igor Vivchar (UKR)300+180+180+180+180+180+180+316 =1696
3. John Malkin (NZ) 180+180+180+180+180+180+180+59 = 1319
4. Brian Van Nes (USA)180+180+180+158+162+180+180= 1238
5. Leigh Morgan (AUS) 150+180+180+130+180+180+180 = 1180
6. Antony Koerbi (NZ) 180+85+180+180+180+180+180 = 1165
7. Alexandr Shelepov (RUS) 180+180+180+ 145+180+180+112 = 1157
8. Dave Ackery (NZ)117+169+139+ 138+180+180+180 = 1103
9. Linc Vincent (NZ) 92+106+180+ 81+180+180+180 = 999
10.Roger Morrell (USA)180+180+141+180+ 129+180+ 0 =990
11.Adrian Bryant AUS) 118+171+141+112+ 91+180+149 = 962
12.Stewart Cox (NZ) 156+109+ 69+180+ 151+100+180 =945
13.Alan McDonald (NZ) 160+ 20+180+151+180+ 180+ 48 = 919
14.Alistair McKenzie (NZ)168+169+112 = 449
F1C - super max
1. Jim Boyd (NZ)300+180+180+180+180+180+180 = 1380
2. Phil Smith (NZ) 180+167+148+120+172+ 99+159 = 1045
3. Roy Summersby (AUS) 180+112+121+ 72+ 60+180+180 = 905
F1H
1. Victor Stamov (UKR) 120+120+120+117+120 =597
2. Phil Mitchell (AUS) 115+120+120+116+120 =591
3. Brian Van Nest (USA) 106+120+120+ 76+120 =542
4. Igor Vivchar (UKR)120+120+106+ 74+120 =540
5. Terry Tank (NZ) 109+ 70+120+ 88+ 90 =477
6. Chris Murphy (NZ) 75+ 76 + 56+ 120+110 =437
7. Moira Vincent (NZ) 68+ 48 + 38+ 76+ 46 =276
F1J
1. Rex Bain (NZ)120+120+120+120+120 =600
P-30 Rubber
1. RoySummersby (AUS) 120+120+120+420 =780
2.Vin Morgan (AUS) 120+120+120+372 =732
3. Antony Koerbin (NZ) 117+120+120 =357
4. Stewart Cox (NZ) 120+ 93+120 =333
5. Owen Moore (NZ) 81+120+ 65 =266
6. Paul Squires (NZ)108+120 =228
7. Bill Long (NZ) 41 =41
Open Combined
1. StewartCox (NZ) 180+180+180+503 =1043
2. Paul Squires (NZ) 180+180+180+159 =699
3. Kevin Barnes (NZ) 180+180+159 =519
4. Chris Murphy (NZ) 110+180+180 =470
5. John Harte (NZ)102+180 =282
Hand Launch Glider
1. Phil Smith (NZ) 48+60+60+60+52+55 =335
2. Tim Harte (NZ) 60+49+42+60+60+60 =331
3. CraigKing (NZ) 60+57+43+44+52+58 =314
4. Stewart Cox (NZ) 34+34+44+60+60+53 =285
5. Gareth Thompson (NZ) 33+30+60+10+44+51 =228
6. Chris Murphy (NZ) 21+53+21+60+24+46 =225
7. AntonyGroenewegen 55+30+24+20+52+37 =218
8.Antony Koerbin (NZ) 48+40+33+41+17+22 =201
9. Rob Wallace (NZ) 16+30+34+25+39+30 =174
10. Simon Barnes (NZ) 21+20+27+27+18+33 =146
Kiwi Power
1. KevinBarnes (NZ) 120+112+120+108+120 =580
Comments
Two excellent events run by Rob Wallace and Chris Murphy respectively. The
turnout was a bit lower than last time, probably because of the World
Champs being in the USA.
One event - F1B in Kotuku cup turned like the FFSC intended with their
super max. One one person who made the 5 min super max in F1B max
the event so not flyoff was required. Note that Malkin who made the super
dropped one second. As with the other event I've flown in the USA -
the SCAT Annual that included the Super Max - the universal consenus amongst
the contestants was disappointment and disillustionment.
Those with simpler models that could not make the super max were bummed
from the beginning. Those with the peformance models that made the super
max but dropped later felt as if they had been ripped off. [applogies
to those unfamilar with the coloqual expressions !]
In The New Zealand Evenets and the SCAT Annual there was failry low
participation. This meant that the sportsman could select the time to
fly in the first round. At both events there was clearly [for the F1B
class anyway] when it was the wrong time to fly. - This was later
in the round after the early morning calm dissapated and before
serious thermals could be detected. With the 210 second first round
time this could be achieved in that doldrum period, but not 300 seconds.
Enought whinging and back to Omarama ...
In the F1A event in the Omarama Cup the 4 minute max was flown. This
caused much head scratching and later gnashing of teeth. The question
was do I fly at the beginning of the round with my performance model ?
or do I weigth til later to find lift ? When you look at the results
no one has the super max marked - because those that made it dropped
a later round. In fact although there was no wind at the time at gound
level it was turbulent and very deceptive at line height. None of the
big names that went early made the super max.
These tricky conditions manefested themselves for the F1B flyoff.
Krebtov flew only a few seconds before Vivchar, both in
what looked like neutral conditions. Andrei got some good
stuff and drifted up wind only to land 150 m from the flight line.
Igor's model flew in the other direction and in the direction we expected.
He still did a over 5 minutes but was 100 seconds behind Krebtov's time.
So as we write this Krebtov goes to Australia with 100 solid F1B
World Cup points.
Another feature of this event is the evening seminars. One evening
Igor Vivchar spoke about his models, gave his thoughts on 30 grams
and trimming tips. This was followed by Andrei Krebtov who showed
his variable diameter prop.
The next night Victor Stamov and I talked about electronic timers.
Victor showed how he engineered his models and the timers to
work well together. He gave a lot of sound practical
advice. Both sessions were well appreciated by all.
Then there was the infomal session in the bar of the Omarama Hotel
i.e. the local Pub. Where people imbibed Speight's etc and partook
of the excellent pub food. Great to see everyone taking in the local
color. Everyone appreciated the low costs, friendly locals,
great sportsmanship with some tourism on the side.
For those who went four years ago the weather was much better. The
sun shone, one day they did not fly but both F1B contests had
calm mornings and challenging thermal rounds. Krebtov's short
model handled the turbulent conditions very well.
...so Chris and Rob I presume you will do it again in 2 years..
2002 TransTasman Challenge Results
==================================
By agreement of both teams, to compensate for differing team numbers from each nation,
the 2002 Trans Tasman is scored as follows:
(a) the combined F1A scores of each nation's team, plus
(b) the two highest NZ F1B scores against the Australian F1B total, plus
(c) the best NZ F1C score against the sole Australian F1C score
All scores based on a 180 sec maximum, and the Trans Tasman Trophy awarded to the
nation with the highest total aggregate score as defined above.
F1A Australia
Phil Mitchell 180+174+180+180+180 = 894
Vin Morgan 180+ 63+ 180+180+180 = 783
Nic Nikolov 142+180+180+129+141 = 752
TOTAL 2429
F1A New Zealand
John Harte 180+148+180+118+180 = 806
Bill McGarvey 60+180+180+180+180 = 780
Antony Koerbin 180+106+180+180+127 = 773
TOTAL 2359
F1B Australia
Leigh Morgan 150+180+180+130+180+180+180 = 1180
Adrian Bryant 118+171+141+112+ 91+180+149 = 962
TOTAL 2142
F1B New Zealand
David Ackery 117+169+139+138+180+180+180 = 1103
Linc Vincent 92+106+180+ 81+180+180+180 = 999
TOTAL 2102
F1C Australia
Roy Summersby 180+112+121+72+60+180+180 = 905
TOTAL 905
F1C New Zealand
Jim Boyd 180+180+180+180+180+180+180 = 1260
TOTAL 1260
Australia NewZealand
2429 2359
2142 2102
905 1260
TOTAL 5476 5721
New Zealand is the winner of the Trans Tasman Rosebowl Trophy
..................
Roger Morrell
